-16 votes

Obama/Holder just played us

RE: after watching the Young Turks segment praising Rand....I see the scenario playing out....Obama "caves", and Obama wins!

Only 8% our United States Senate thought this objection raised by Rand Paul was worthy of support?

After what hour did this intolerant position become "historic"?

The next slogan of any campaign for basic American human rights under the rule of law should be "we are the 8%".

BTW; praise for Cenk and all the progressives and liberals he may convert is NOT warranted IMO, because it sure looks to me like his standard for supporting Rand in this doesn't derive from a fundamental right-to-life that is derive from a source higher than Caesar; meaning his disagreements with Rand 90% of the time most often means he is a student of humanism, and his leanings are man-centered and subjective to innumerable whims; which is the active antithesis of "all men are created equal", and the historical track record of that type of self-serving philosophy makes him(all these "outraged" liberals, Democrats, progressives) a bunch of posers and in reality, just another cheerleader for the Democrat Party.

He articulates good thoughts and arguments with his on camera and television presence, which he has a talent for; but he is NO patriot in George Washington's eyes when at other times we know he attacks the supports that supercede why ANY President should be
denied such a ridiculous authority to murder his own citizenry in an arbitrary manner!

This "support" for Rand, by him, is in vain because he is an opportunist at heart; no different than Karl Rove's talking heads on Fox News, Clear Channel, or Salem Communications, who will NOT now take up the mantle of Liberty, but just bash Obama in this two steps forward, one step back game!

The Executive Branch has their NDAA, free speech zones, and DHS brown shirts and internment camps for dissenters; they don't need the power to vaporize us with drones...

If Obama backs off, gives Rand what he is asking for, Obama wins!!!!(and Cenk will just kiss his ass all the more)...can't you hear the WHOLE state-run media apparatus say: "you did the right thing, Mr. President"

Sure, Rand gets his props, but(the Liberty movement) NEVER the spotlight or the White House! They make our fundamentalist position MAINSTREAM, and it takes the wind out of our sails....




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well, well, well...it seems "they" have caved...

The next question is "Why?"

Can't a REGULAR DPer advance a political theory?

Rand was AWESOME yesterday because his stance wasn't to advance the cause of himself, or, the opposing Party....but...you all downvoting me actually think Obama is not going to try to be seen as moving from the left to the center as to ward off any "radical right-wing extremist" arguments and demands that the whole of everything that attacks our liberties since 9/11 be dismantled???

C'mon, am I not "in sport" in my speculations and warnings of caution here?

Rand behaved as a patriotic statesman yesterday, and he exposed a bunch of slimy politicians for what they were....vermin, hiding from the light!!

Reverse the downvotes...

Puts wind in my sails

I just returned from the CA DOP convention where Rand was not brought up. I brought up Rand, even had www.randatch.com printed on the back of my cards... so for me, Rand's fillabuster is huge and very helpful.

There is still the loophole

that the drone master can claim the drone victim they killed was armed. Something else that needs watching is this: Sen. Graham introduced this legislation today. "The best way to prevent crazy people, mentally unstable people, from getting a weapon is to identify them somehow before they try to murder," he said.

http://www.abcnews4.com/story/21534747/graham-criminally-men...

cant we all just get along?

I don't understand why we are bringing religion into the liberty debate. We all want to be able to believe what we want to. There is no reason to divide a group that is already the minority (speaking of liberty-minded folks)to begin with. Lets get on track and discuss real issues. I believe in god, but I don't criticize other peoples personal beliefs.. And if you are a Christian, remember this:

Matt 7:2
"For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you"

Luke 6:42
"Or how can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,' when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother's eye"

Anyways, I think there has been too much confrontation on dailypaul lately. Don't get me wrong; The point of this site is to spread the message and to correct one another. But we can do it in a peaceful way. We are all here for the same purpose, at least I hope so.

UNITED WE STAND.

"When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."

-Thomas Jefferson

So I have to subscribe to

So I have to subscribe to your medival peasant control religeon in order to hold principals in liberty? Kindly keep your ridiculous and xenaphobic god-boy crap off of me? Im sick of this elitest garbage. You may need a ficticious monarch to rule your life so you can believe in natural law(dispite the two having nothing in common), however the many non-religeous liberty minded people out there don't need to believe in fairy tales and cosmic kings to have reason and principal. Nor do we appreciate people like you trying to spread your nonsense on us by telling us we can't have principal without your collectivist coersion-based myths.

If you don't like people bashing your religeon, quit using it to insult us by saying we can't have principal without it. Ill leave you alone if you leave me alone. Thats what liberty is about.

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What?

This is too big to hand Obama the "you did the right thing trophy" so soon and be accepted by everyone. They won't be able to "play" this effectively at this point in time. It has raised the "awareness" of too many people. They have conceded the "No" answer. The issue will now be ignored and "they" will hope it soon goes away. Rand has done something masterful, whether intended or not.

Incredibly misinformed post

Cenk / Young Turks are EXTREMELY critical of the obama administration. you shouldn't trash talk something you never watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toEjMwMdVd4#t=5m06s

You're whining because they're usually critical of Rand? You realize Rand himself has a spotty history on several issues, not to mention backing Romney over his own father to seek establishment acceptance last year?

Finally, (and most insultingly), you're more or less saying that anyone who doesn't believe in a sentient creator cannot believe in true liberty for men. What a load of shit. Keep your god to yourself, because he is yours and yours alone.

...and thus we have the DIVIDE...

...and I want it explored and FOUGHT out in public debate...

Any of you foul-mouthed wannabe patriots want to square off regarding our sound moral footing based on a tacit ACCEPTANCE by the majority in the days of our revolution, with respect to, "the laws of nature, and of nature's God" and/or the Creator so named in our Declaration of Independence .... I'd love to tour the colleges and have a panel of 3 who believe in a Supreme Being and find value PRIMARILY in the God/pure faith of our founders, go against another panel of 3 of you secular humanist, progressive, evolution-spewing(human evolved from a cosmic burp billions of years ago), Godless professing libertarians and your unsteady moral relativism that lacks a demonstrable solid standard better than what we have now.

I'd think it would be QUITE the debate ... YOU guys are the problem ... most Republicans are pissed BECAUSE the Republicans and so MANY others who hold elected office DO NOT keep their word, keep their oaths, or stick to the clearly articulated in the Party platform.

And so, rather than EXPLORE the wisdom of the fruit that our founders CLAIMED came from their faith in a Supreme Being(and the deity of Jesus Christ, and the Mosaic law etc. etc.); you just knee-jerk rant your INTOLERANCE for those "in my camp".

Did you want to waste our time going through Cenk's support for things that God hates, things that are CLEAR violations of our liberties; or, perhaps you might admit actions beget consequences, and the lauding/excusing of SINFUL behaviors deemed as "unwise", unfruitful, deceptive, harmful, wealth-depleting, destructive should be SHAMED in a free society - and - the full force of the law ought to be brought upon any behavior deemed unwise and destructive to another man's life, liberty, or property?

Insult? You embarrass yourself...I will not be governed by adult children who lack the knowledge to rail against that what HISTORY deems good, and productive, and prosperous based on the whimsical absurd position that NO Creator exists; especially when creation and conscious revelation(as well as majority opinion that a Supreme Being does exist, believed the WHOLE planet over) refutes your claim that we're morons!

You can believe in true liberty, but you would NEVER give it to another if he offended your belief system, or, called you a hypocrite ... thus, we let a democratic majority decide who they want to represent them; one who professes a belief in a Creator, or, one that doesn't.

I WANT THIS DEBATE IN THE LIBERTY MOVEMENT time to separate the sheep from the goats...

oh boy, creationism

The difference between us is that you for some reason need a supernatural entity breathing down your neck and leading you around by the nose for you to do good works--I can discern this because you don't seem to expect that others are capable of it without such pressure.

You call it moral relativism when I base what I believe on my own personal logic, all the while your ostensibly absolutist morals were merely passed down to you through generations of papal bureaucracy and theocratic (despotic) arbitrarity. A sad facsimile molded by the ruling class of every generation.

DO NOT keep their word
They don't keep their word because.. they don't believe in the god you do? Would it blow you away were I to tell you how Christians lie, cheat and steal every single day?

For example--you speak highly of Mosaic Law, but what about not suffering a witch to live? What about stoning your children when they disobey you? What about selling your enemies into slavery?

Countless generations of Christians have passed down a view of the old testament that discards sets of morals at whimsy when they are no longer relevant to the present culture. So, compared to the original set of morals, those you received from your family are equally shoddy from hundreds of generations of people picking and choosing what they think god prizes most.

You can believe in true liberty, but you would NEVER give it to another if he offended your belief system
You're essentially telling me "Slavery would be OK if not for God". I'm telling you that an immortal being doesn't have to put slavery on the no-no list for it to be bad. That's your own mind's construction, not the fabric of the universion. The Yahweh was a real prick about slavery, anyway--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MFmC6BD1B4

and even if they were all Christian, their christianity is not the defining feature of their principles; certainly not what we celebrate about them today.

Many (if not most) of the founders were Deists, not Christians. Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli (June 7, 1797). Article 11 states:
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”

If anything it was the enlightenment beyond the stanglehold of a state-endorsed dogma that allowed them such clarity. Christianity was by no means the defining feature of our founders' work.

The evolution thing is a whole 'nother ballgame. I can't expect that you've been keeping up with biology news (doesn't seem your preference) but the discoveries in that field over the last decade have either been made possible only through evolutionary theory
or vindicated it further still. A few years ago they re-evolved a species of butterfly from two probable ancestors. Toyota has been breeding a new species of flower to regulate humidity and temperature around warehouses. These are things Creation Science will never achieve because it's based on fluff.

Just recently I learned of the Trivers-Willard hypothesis. It's fascinating. Go look it up. Creation "science" doesn't have such revelatory material. There are no creation "scientists" producing works valuable to society. They're more concerned with futily fighting evolution.

you secular humanist, progressive, evolution-spewing, Godless professing libertarians
"progressive libertarians"? That's a new one on me, man.

Did you want to waste our time going through Cenk's support for things that God hates
No, but I would appreciate it were you to acknowledge that you were dead wrong on TYT loving Obama.

refutes your claim that we're morons!
I never said this, but if you want my full respect, I'd like to see you do good works without the promise of a brownie in the sky when you die.

No one needs a god to be a principled individual. Your god will generally feel and believe just as you do, and you will defend him and his whims as if he were your self.. because he IS you. On top of that, he's different than the god of other Christians--they all prize different things about the world, and think the world should be this and that way.. gods are a function of belief/culture, and no two people believe exactly the same.

That's not to say you can't tap into your god through prayer and meditation.

BTW, using the biblical phrasing (mostly John), wouldn't you be one of the sheep (lord's flock) in this dialogue...?do think you're morons, it's more because morality

find one hypocritical professing Christian,

...and throw the baby out with the bathwater....

...and sure, human eyesight is definitely a PROVABLE product of random processes, and life evolved from non-living materials....yup, you got me...

I am one of the sheep that .... "know His voice"
There's a qualifier that benefits me in that my deception detector and reasoning is.NOT hellbent on the conceit of limited human intellect...LIMITED, get it?

This advancement of idolatry, my "god" is me and will agree/confirm.what I believe at any given moment or period of my life is EXACTLY what is destroying this.nation...and every last flourishing empire in world history.

If you want to cast the "stupid" adverb/adjective at "believers", then start here:
In Six Days: Why Fifty Scientists Choose to Believe in Creation
By John Ashton PhD.

I guarantee, once these guys put you in your place."intellectually", you'll cling to.majority opinion, and the obvious; "I will NEVER submit to some God that interferes with my sexual.mores"...

I don't understand half of what you just wrote

(especially the idolatry part)
but I'll respond to this--

...and sure, human eyesight is definitely a PROVABLE product of random processes, and life evolved from non-living materials....yup, you got me...

human eyesight's one of the easier evolutionary movements to understand. the sequence of morphological changes between a flat light-detecting patch of flesh to one with a film to one with a film and a curvature, etc., isn't a difficult one at all. Eyes have been evolved convergently (unrelated lineage) 20+ times; an octopus' eyeball's design is much cleaner than that of a human (an orderly cluster of optic fibers compared to a tangle).

This wiki stock photo describes the evolution of the eye quite well:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/Sta...

If you really think this kind of variability is not possible within a species, keep in mind that there are cave fish who have devolved such that their eyes are behind a wall of skin and entirely atrophied. Look to the variability of dogs for an example of how this kind of variation is possible. This is how new species form.. God didn't just create all of these on day one.

Do you really think every species alive today has been here since the world's creation? Or that god is just continually plopping them down to earth on a whim? Those possibilities create more questions than they answer.

Finally, do you realize you just responded to a post talking about new discoveries recently possible through evolution.. by touting a book that's 12 years old?

whatever...

...take it to, or, start a NEW creation/evolution thread, or, NO Supreme Being thread...before we go further...

Octopus live in the WATER...I would think God would most certainly have designed their eyes differently...

The explosive amounts of changes in DNA, and beneficial mutations your "side" needs in order to get me to believe one kind turned into another kind(apes to humans, or quadrupeds into dolphins) is IMPOSSIBLE...

Variations within the kinds, nobody on "our side" argues; a scrambling of existing genetic information ... the umbrella you're under is NO God exists, or creates, or judges, or WILL judge in the future; and that is just foolish...period.

Do you think every species today has been alive forever?

Or do you think god creates them continually?

Or are you content with simply never asking these kinds of questions?

don't McCain & Graham's comments...

...saying Rand "unnecessarily" ALARMED the public yesterday MEAN that he's is being marginalized as "extreme right-wing"???

gee, politically speaking; if Obama says Rand has "reasonable concerns" ... that move would just ... anyone?

This won't be a blip on the radar screen - somebody is going to capitalize off this, and it's not going to be the Liberty Movement since the MSM is not in our corner!

ahhhh!

Is post this maybe confusing.. rewrite?

what hurts our brain is...

...no President can ever be granted authority to kill Americans; it's absurd, and it is a criminal indictment upon ALL who would support open murder by the state....

Sadly, this position(what Rand Paul is standing for) should be mainstream, but.....now it's an extreme right position....this means, Obama is as good or better than a Bill Clinton, if he moves to the "center" on this one yet, as we know, all the tools and mechanis of "lathiswfully" and physically necessary to impose the absence of dissent against any and all benevolent dictators from here on out, is in place....

See, if Obama concedes, "Senator Paul was right"(even if he throws Holder under the bus), he capitalizes by getting his base back to painting him as reasonable, and us as unreasonable....because we don't just want the drone option " off the table"; we want Obamacare repealed entirely(Republicans won't do that), and we want every last DHS afforded luxury designed to transition us into a totalitarian state stricken from the books and cast into the abyss where the tyrannical yearnings of our founders parent government reside!

(I am rewriting through expanding on my thoughts)

monkey see, monkey do down-voting....

...you guys want to take a shot at what's really WRONG with this country, or, fool yourselves into thinking a coalition with the God-less will bring victory....

Hitler said he was a Christian!!!!

Every last abominable liberty-stripping item being proposed, drafted, introduced, voted for, signed into law hasbeen authored and supported by professing CHRISTIANS!!!

It's time for clear alignment, separation, distinction....Rand is WITH US....everyone supporting him KNOWS THAT....you're all naive to be satisfied that "we're winning"....

These "Christians" HATE Christ,and God's laws, right along side the secular humanists....this is our side changing the county?

Again, bold stand by Rand...he went the distance...but to think Lefties and God-haters are NOW standing for Liberty is a joke!!!

Whatever, don't look past your nose, either to the future or back at world history...I'm just one guy who is not gonna get suckered by the emotion of all of this....we need more statesmen in representative government, and the media and kingmakers aren't likely to change their ways because their lusts are evil!

Almighty God said you can't murder your own, it's that simple; that's my over-arching point....

TwelveOhOne's picture

Yeah I don't see it that way either

I see this as the first salvo in a consequence that cannot be mitigated: first, get the President to agree "I do not have the Constitutional authority to kill US citizens on US soil without due process."

Next step: get him to agree "I do not have the Constitutional authority to kill US citizens without due process."

And, bam! He impeaches himself.

We certainly live in interesting times.

I love you. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you.
http://fija.org - Fully Informed Jury Association
http://jsjinc.net - Jin Shin Jyutsu (energy healing)

Then next step...flying

Then next step...flying drones to spy on Americans is a no no.

robot999's picture

Did I miss

Obama/Holder CAVING? And with this "dream" of yours, how does Obama caving place him in a winning postion? WTH are you talking about?

"Government is the entertainment division of the military-industrial complex". - Frank Zappa

all you missed was my point....

I'm NOT against Rand, nor am I .... Never mind....