I can't believe some of the people on this forum
Yesterday I posted a thread about how I thought that if we can't win Nevada that we don't have a good chance at winning the GOP nomination and we should pull out now and start looking at the 3rd party run so we could bypass any "sore loser laws" that would prohibit being on some states ballots.
I was slammed, cursed, and called a troll. This morning I noticed the thread had been deleted. Is it wrong to question the direction of the campaign? You guys are doing the same thing George Bush does. If you speak out against anything you a labeled a traitor.
I have donated time and money to spreading Dr. Paul's message. I have been doing so since May when I watched the first debates. I told all my friends and coworkers about Dr. Paul. I hung hundreds of signs all over Nashville/Middle Tennessee throughout the summer and fall. I even had three letters to the editor about Dr. Paul printed in the local Newspaper. But to question the direction of the campaign negates all that and suddenly I don't belong.
I have not lost hope for the good Dr.'s message. I just think our strategy matched up against Mitt Romney's money and strategy is not going to win the GOP nomination. Blast me if you want to delete me if you will. I'm onboard until the end. Some of you guys need to take a good look in the mirror at what you have become
Well, I think it is a tense
Well, I think it is a tense situation so we are all on our toes against infiltration of the forum. I think that is where the grilling of others and troll accusations come in... Although we cannot totally get rid of this, it is part of healthy discussion I suppose? Either way, I have ripped into people a little bit for negativity or doubt about the campaign, perhaps my passion got the best of me a bit... But mainly, I just believe that we create our destiny through hard-work, visualizing our goals, and believing in ourselves... It is basically the same as the Law of Attraction. Similar to the content in that "The Secret" book... I just think the way to win it keep our hopes up! Stay positive, contribute, and do your very best to encourage curiousity in Ron Paul. Keep your chin up people, we may bicker from time to time, but if you are truly behind this thing let's keep talking, donating, and believing in Personal Responsibility and Liberty!
Maxout now
and all is forgiven ;-)
I agree..and its UNHEALTHY
I agree that those here are too brittle... they can't handle anything critical, and yet positive criticism is what HQ needs.
Way too may people here can't handle anyone questioning anything...
This site may have inadvertantly gathered up a bunch of cheerleaders who can't stand it when Sissy is not in sinc and cheering ....Give me R, ...Give me an O, ...Give me an N....
No more flagging, .... and no more calling people Trolls. Name calling is so ....Hannity....
Lets be more "Paul-like" and explain and teach instead. Positive Criticism is and new and creative suggestions are ALWAYS welcome. --- Even if we disagree.
Which I happend to disagree with the 3rd party run suggestion.... but such suggestions are all good.....
Its best to keep an OPEN mind on most everything, especially the things you are most sure about.
Treg / Tempe AZ
Unhealthy as well as ironic
All too frequent accusations of "troll" sound--dare I say it? Childish?
Censorship is a favourite tool of fascist governments. I can't understand why people can't have a courteous exchange even if they don't agree with someone's ideas. Why not just explain why you don't agree?
One of the things I've read here on occasion that's really made me cringe is cries of, "You're hurting Ron Paul!" I can just imagine it in a whiney, childish voice. The idea that "spies" are reading and then using every post in the least bit critical of the campaign as ammunition against Ron Paul and the movement has the potential to boomerang. Enthusiasts for freedom who are intolerant of the freedom of speech? Hmmmm, let me mull that over for awhile...
Ditto
.
Hear hear
Hear hear
It is not over yet...but
it does seem promising sometimes. The front runners are not defined. Dr Pauls message will get more traction as the economy continues to dive. Look at these projection numbers. With everyone in the race and the field spread thin 12-15 percent can do a lot of damage.
http://www.paulunteer.com/projects/projected-ron-paul-primar...
Honestly, I thought for a long time that 3rd party is the way but history has not been kind to the 3rd party candidate. We really need the Billionaire pipedream, hollywood endorsements, and mass public awakening for it really to be winning ticket. Unfortunately, the republican ticket is probably still our best bet.
You might be right but I don't think Dr Paul is on board. Chin Up! Keep fight the good fight. Hopefully this is like a really good Hollywood movie and through the strife and struggle the good guy wins in the end.
RP08
It is not over yet...but
it does seem promising sometimes. The front runners are not defined. Dr Pauls message will get more traction as the economy continues to dive. Look at these projection numbers. With everyone in the race and the field spread thin 12-15 percent can do a lot of damage.
http://www.paulunteer.com/projects/projected-ron-paul-primar...
Honestly, I thought for a long time that 3rd party is the way but history has not been kind to the 3rd party candidate. We really need the Billionaire pipedream, hollywood endorsements, and mass public awakening for it really to be winning ticket. Unfortunately, the republican ticket is probably still our best bet.
You might be right but I don't think Dr Paul is on board. Chin Up! Keep fight the good fight. Hopefully this is like a really good Hollywood movie and through the strife and struggle the good guy wins in the end.
RP08
Its kind of a balancing act
Its kind of a balancing act isn't it?
I have been surprised to meet quite a few that will admit they completely agree with Ron Paul but refuse to even consider registering as a republican in order to vote for him...
At the same time the neocons I have met seem so completely brainwashed its just......well pointless to even talk about it.
I agree that we need the coverage we are getting by remaining in the GOP. But given the above and the fact that I cant even begin to comprehend the turnout for McWar, Huck , Romney...maybe we should consider all our options?
I just wonder if our message is reaching the right people?
Yes!!!!
You've touched upon the nuance that I too have been pondering recently. This party (republicans) is FILLED with neocons and priviledged baby boomers absolutely and resolutely AGAINST any change in their preceived security, economic affluence, power positions, etc.
At the same time, the name "republican" is SO tainted in the eyes of moderate, independent and libertarian people in this country that asking them to even listen to the message Ron Paul provides is very hard ,if not impossible. In my mind, that is fair since many of these people have only experienced Republicans through TWO Bushes, a republican (until recently) controlled congress and senate for decades, and even Ronald Regan (who IMHO talked alot, but produced exactly the opposite). Why should they believe anyone in this party is any different?
I feel that the usefullness of staying "Republican" is about used up. They are quickly moving on with the annointed ones. Ron gets ZERO coverage in the media NOW. Ron will be lucky to get into any more debates.
Time to move on/move out?
This country NEEDS a NEW party. If it has a name "libertarian" or "constitution" or "Independent" or "Liberty" is almost irrelevant. As long as it is NOT Republican or Democrat.
Ron Paul, in THIS election, could make that happen with our help. In the long run, that might be MORE important that simply "getting the message out" to an unreceptive, skeptical, or suspicious audience based in part on the name of his party.
"Luctor et Emergo" - Struggle and Emerge
Anniversary of the very first fundraiser...
We are coming up on the anniversary of the very first fundraiser for Dr. Paul. It took place in Pembroke NH on Saturday, February 24th and we raised a ton of money from about 200 people. At the time, only Kent and I were working on this, ans he had contacted me for advice on how to reach people during this visit. I arranged the RSVP list and food donations and borrowed the home of a friend (mine's always a mess!) for this. Dr. Paul made a few appearances the night before at a taxpayer group and the next day at another event in NH where he made the closing speech on Sunday.
THIS PARTY WAS THE START OF HIS CAMPAIGN. It was what got him to listen to his close advisors to actually declare, not to mention the money that was raised.
I can tell you that MICHAEL BADNARIK HIMSELF was THERE and ENDORSED RON PAUL for PRESIDENT under the GOP BANNER the next day to about 400 "libertarian" who were at the closing speech. I thanked MB profusely for coming of course.
You can see the photos on FLICKR of MB, and there is one famous one of a friend and her newborn baby, with Dr. Paul looking at the child.
No one understands better the difficulty of a 3rd party run like Badnarik.
Time flies when you're having fun!
Thanks, Jane, for helping Ron get over that hump of non-commitment to another presidential run. This was THE time to get Dr. Paul on the national stage in a meaningful light. I really was ecstatic the day he announced the formation of his presidential exploratory committee. Seriously. I was like a mad demon that entire day. I shouted with glee when he declared his candidacy on C-SPAN. I called all my politically aware friends that day to let them know I was joining a political campaign for the first time in my life.
I am still in awe of the numbers that Dr. Paul's message is generating. His message has never changed over the years, so I was beginning to think that nobody wanted to hear what he had to say. I had been preparing to move a few counties Southward just to be living in Dr. Paul's congressional district once again at the time he declared his candidacy. I think the idea of increasing Dr. Paul's constituency is preferable to me packing and moving again...is that me being too selfish?
The meaning behind my screen name
The battle of Gonzales, TX. (Oct. 1835)
Of course you are entitled to your opinion
Of course you are entitled to your opinion. I for one agree that calling someone names, not knowing who they are, or what efforts they have put into the campaign is immature and counterproductive. As well, although I do not agree with your 3rd party candidacy opinion, I do appreciate both your campaign efforts and right to say what you feel is right. An Internet forum, by definition, is a web application for holding discussions and posting user generated content. An intelligent counter response to a fellow supporter's idea, be they right or wrong, is much more productive than name calling. Furthermore, an argument could be made that the people doing the name calling could possibly be doing so to cause discontent. Also at times the written word comes across much more literal then the intention of the poster causing misunderstanding. In any event, please do not let the errors of a few dissuade us from sticking together for our common cause of getting Dr. Paul elected.
It's probably because there
It's probably because there aren't a lot of us willing to throw in the towel, which is what we would be doing if we did what you suggest. And just exactly how does this help us go forward toward winning the nomination? What are you, from Fox? Aren't we all just sick to death of this third party question? Why not just win the nomination? Why come here to Dailypaul suggesting that we cannot win when the bulk of the campaign is yet ahead of us? There are enough people out there trying to bring us down without you contributing to it. Maybe that's why you were flagged. These kinds of posts are just nonproductive to our goal, which is winning the Republican nomination, get it? Once the others drop out and there is only Romney and Paul left, do you really think that all his money will help him when it's one-on-one with Dr. Paul on stage? Quit giving Romney the nomination and fight the good fight and maybe your posts won't be deleted.
www.paulforronpaul.com
Alright, Okayyyyy ... Alright!!!!!
I am not going to do.... What everyone Thinks, I'm gonna do....
Freak out Man!!!
Dr. Paul is essentially using the republican party as a platform. The Republican party has great success at winning presidential elections.
Third parties have No success at winning elections!
Get it? Got it? Good!!!
Dr. Paul and ourselves have great momentum and we are Winning because the message is Viral! People are becoming informed. And the farther our country falls into economic despair, the more people will read, and become informed!
The Revolution Continues at http://nationbuilder.org
It is not fair for 3rd party
It is not fair for 3rd party runners. This is the exact reason Dr. Paul needs to stand up and say "elect me as a republican party president and I will clear the path for fairness by making all parties as equal as the dems and the rep." The majority of the population know that the 2 party system is a joke, and will definately consider Dr. Paul if he comes out and says this in his interviews.
Who is with me on this?
"I, I, I..."
esircy7192,
Please do yourself a favor and e-mail Michael Badnarik (Libertarian candidate, 2004), or even David Cobb (Green candidate 2004) and ask their advice on a 3rd party run. That is, if you don't believe Ron Paul himself when he states *from experience* (His Libertarian Party candidacy in 1988) that it is not something he would want to do again.
I've not responded to any posts about a 3rd party run ever before, but I'm really troubled by the selfishness that comes through in your post. It's not the first, it won't be the last, but I do wish to say that we've all ( I hope!) done the things that you say you have done to help Dr. Paul get nominated.
And SOME of us understand how running as 3rd party would be like pissing into the wind. You think the media treats Dr. Paul poorly now? Ha, what do you think will happen if he runs 3rd party?
I voted for Ron Paul in 1988. I voted for Badnarik in 2004. Both running on the Libertarian ticket, both getting NO positive attention. I believe Badnarik got 500,000 votes total? I'm sure you can find vids on YouTube or elsewhere of Badnarik & Cobb fighting the police in 2004 (like Nader did) to be heard at a debate or three. Badnarik endorses Ron Paul, BTW, and understands that he cannot run as LP.
I don't know your voting history or your understanding of this process, but there is far more of an uphill battle to be waged if Dr. Paul runs 3rd party. I know you're upset, and I know you're frustrated because what you're doing isn't showing immediate, positive results... but please hang in there. Every singular effort does not bring reward. Indeed, I am disappointed, but not bitter or angry, about the poor showing here in my home state of NH. I certainly do not blame Ron Paul, or his HQ.
If you prefer to be angry, then research the political system's smarmy tactics to prevent 3rd parties from getting on state ballots, from being heard, and get active to change that! But don't take it out on RPHQ or other supporters who don't agree with you. I have looked into your mirror, have you?
Yeah, I have looked in the
Yeah, I have looked in the mirror. I still support Dr. Paul but I lack your condescending, know it all tone. My post was not done for selfish reasons it was done out of love for Dr. Paul's message.
I am very educated in American Politics and that is why I posted my original post with my concerns. Some folks here believe that the more Pro-war candidates that drop out the better it it for Dr. Paul. I however, disagree. If Fred Thompson drops out tomorrow will his supporters flock to Dr. Paul? Maybe a small percentage but the majority will go to McCain or Huckabee. Only the educated voter will vote for Dr. Paul. The problem is is that 80% of the elegible voters in our country are uneducated and will vote for whoever CNN or Fox tells them too.
I agree that staying in the race is good for being included in the debates but eventually Dr. Paul will be fazed out and only the top 3 or 4 leading candidates will be allowed to debate. My arguement was too get out and save a little face and get started on a 3rd party run. Yes, the deck is stacked against us. But itsn't it already? If we wind up going to brokered convention what is to be gained? We can't win. "Million Dollar" Mitt or McCain are going to be the final two. Dr. Paul will not accept a VP slot nor will it be offered. He might wind up getting a slot in the convention to speak but by then it's too late.
Our hope would be that Bloomberg decides to go 3rd pary and try to work something out where we could debate with him if we couldn't be included in the regular debates. It would also be great if Nader jumped on the Green ticket as well. Really, if Bloomberg and Nader where to enter would be the only real shot Dr. Paul has at being the President. Bloomberg, Nader and Paul could realistically shave votes from both sides and hopefully it would come out in our favor.
Like I said before I really want Dr. Paul to win but realistically I don't like our chances if we continue to try to compete state by state with Mitt Romney, Mike Huckabee, and John McCain.
Go ahead. Say what you want. I'm still supporting Dr. Paul.
About McCain and Huckabee.
About McCain and Huckabee. Today Rush Limbaugh all but called them Democrats in disguise. Rush has a lot of influence with the American voters. It's possible that McCain and Huckabee could lose ground as a result.
On the other hand, pro war voters from my perspective don't seem to be able to change their pro war tendencies. I'm hoping I'm wrong and that Ron Paul's foreign policy message could get them rethinking their view on American warmongering policies. Maybe others out there have seen this happen.
too early
I didn't comment on your original post, but it's too early to be talking about Ron Paul running as a third party candidate. Let's not even think about that and cross that bridge if we come to it. To do otherwise is to prematurely admit defeat.
I think...
...people become impatient when RP himself has said he would NOT run third party. Also, we have just begun to weed out the others. In Ron's latest missive, he knows that soon it will be just Romney McCain Huckabee and himself. And maybe even not Huckabee who was last seen begging for $300K to pay his bills.
Take heart
.
No idea why your post was deleted, but you do raise some good points. Only one I disagree with, and that is pulling out of the Republican race now. RP has done well, though not spectacularly well. He has certainly beaten Giuliani and Thompson and that is worth staying in for a time.
RP did leave the door open to a 3rd party run during the Russert interview, and it is a good option. Otherwise he would be abandoning the field to his opponents, and after so many had worked hard for him. So I think that a 3rd party run might be a good wake-up call for the U.S.A. I don't think RP would win - the MSM and the CFR are just too powerful to oppose at the moment.
But what is most significant about a Ron Paul campaign and run for the presidency is that he points out the insanity that has prevailed in our government for decades; the country is broke, we have military in 130 or so countries, the North American Union and Read I.D. loom as real possibilities. So spreading the message of freedom while exposing what is *really* going on is of immense value to the Republic.
And yet there is the slimmest chance he will prevail at the Republican convention - which is likely to be open, and can't easily be manipulated. If enough Ron Paul people become delegates than we have a decent shot. We have seen miracles thus far in the campaign, so I think waiting until, say, June, would be a smart move. If he is not faring well in the Republican polls by then, then he really needs to think about forming his own party and running on a new ticket.
.
I don't think he did..
I think people are impatient with posts like this because RP himself has said NO 3rd party run. Plus he is looking forward to the time when the others drop out for lack of money or doing so poorly, in his latest missive he even said so.
He has just begun.
Compliments to you for all your hard work for Dr. Paul
According to your post you've been campaigning diligently for Ron Paul since May -- for 8 months! Good for you. That means you are familiar with his thoughts about running as a 3rd party candidate and why he finds the barriers even more difficult. He has been asked many times about this and has replied that he would not consider it. I believe that Dr. Paul means what he says... don't you?
Certainly you should not be censored nor shunned. And if you think it is essential for winning the Presidency to pull out now (even though the Primary ballots for Super Tuesday are already printed, and he could not get on those ballots now) why don't you contact Headquarters and speak your mind? Maybe you will be the one person that will convince him to go against his word and not to stay in the Republican race?
Wow, I see it is past midnight Eastern Time, I want to make my donation now.
Anyway, I'm supporting Dr. Paul's run as a Republican as he has repeatedly confirmed.
Gwen Kraft
"Personal Liberty & Personal Responsibility" -- Dr. Ron Paul
Gwen Kraft
"Personal Liberty & Personal Responsibility" -- Dr. Ron Paul
"A hero is someone who understands the responsibility that comes with his freedom." -- Bob Dylan
Well said.
"we are fast becoming what we dread most...
On January 20th, 2008 Defiant84 says:
CENSORS!!! If you dont like a post move on. Stop CENSORING or get a government job!!!!"
Some things need no improvement or reiteration.
Well said.
Shhh!
Censorship is popular here
I've been reading this site for a long time but I hardly ever post because of censorship and the tendency to call everyone who says something unpopular a "troll." I'm surprised to witness such behaviour from a group of people who supposedly want freedom from oppressive government.
What ever comes after the
What ever comes after the primary will be built on top of what we got now. You are saying we should abandon this foundation and pick another site? grow a few more brain cells, man.
Planning for contingencies
is what every good businessman, every good military commander, and every good politician does. To analyze the different probable scenarios in business, war, and politics makes a lot of sence. Presently, my opinion is that the we should continue to make a great effort to get Ron Paul nominated as the Republican candidate for President, but that does not mean that we should not get ourselves prepared in our minds and hearts for other possible realities that we might have to face. You do not fix what is wrong in our government today just by electing Ron, it takes organizing at the local level to change your city, county and state government, it takes changing the composition of Congress. Presently we have two parties that are just one group of stablishment controlled individuals. The American people need more choices and this present monopoly of political power has to end. A third party must become viable to have a true spectrum of ideas reflected in government, but this is just something to consider, at the present time, like I said, let's continue our effort to elect Ron.
He knows what he is doing.
He will not go 3rd party, I've heard him on interviews. He is so mild mannered and sweet, but he KNOWS what he is doing. I've watched and wondered why he wasn't pushing very hard. He has a plan. "Patience is a virtue." He knows that all the others are dropping out and he is a hunter in a way, sit, watch, be still, and your target will come to you. He knows they don't have the money. I heard on CNN, very quickly though, they said Thompson is quitting. Kind of in a fast and low tone to where no one would have payed any attention. I did. Remember, he has been a member of congress for 10 terms. He's been on the inside, he knows what he is doing. So just quit your fusssin. Be patient. God knows, and if it is meant to be it will, and I think it is NOW meant to be. This is to wake us up as human beings we have fallen prey the way they wanted us to, now this is God's way of saying WAKE UP WORLD!! And it is not just us, the whole world is now suffering. I saw on c-span the parliment in England were arguing the same thing, they are losing their homes and in recession too! It has spread like wildfire, the way they want it. Sad. But we are America and strong, and we will survive and fight back, that is what needs to happen, but not stoop to their level and use fear. Fear by the way. False Evidence Appearing Real. Ron Paul, Ron Paul.................Yeee Hawww!
Get over it?
It's time you stop caring. Your post was probably flagged. Why try to mix things up when things are going well? You know as well as everybody else that a third party run at this time is a ridiculous idea. Keep donating if you're so worried about money. Get over it. RP will be president no matter what. Just let the cards fall into place.