51 votes

Rand Is Vindicated!

Today, the White House made a statement that the government CAN NOT drone bomb an American citizen (not engaged in combat) on American soil.

I just heard Jay Carney (White House spokesman) say it on national news.

And Holder has sent Rand Paul a letter stating such.

RAND IS VINDICATED!!!



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Taking a stand on principle...

in spite of the odds against you, has always been a force for good in the world. Check out this post, "Rand Paul: One person can make a difference."

http://www.dailypaul.com/277342

http://www.dailypaul.com/277342 (Rand Paul: One person can make a difference)
http://www.StandUpForYourRights.me/?p=1264 (Fast and Furious hearing)

Why all the negativity

Rand won - why - because at least a few more million people are aware. People saw a man who actually stands for something.

Is it a raging victory for liberty? Do I really think Obama will think twice about shooting me with a hellfire? NO

But look at the two sides of the coin. One has Rand standing for 13 hours preaching about civil liberties. The other has the top Republicans eating steak and drinking wine with the president.

He built more bridges to more people last night that the other Republicans have done in four years. He got support from left wing people and groups and right wing people and groups.

I think it is a good start.

But What About Future Presidents?

We need the President to assert, in his Constitutional expertise, that no president has the authority to take this measure.

Good work Rand, but it seems you're going to have to get yourself a pair of comfortable shoes and a catheter, and get yourself back to that drawing board.

___________________________________________________________________________
"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

robot999's picture

Original Draft Letter from Holder

surfaces: http://www.dailypaul.com/277333/original-draft-of-eric-holde...

"Government is the entertainment division of the military-industrial complex". - Frank Zappa

This NBC news article has

This NBC news article has some real atrocious words in the comments about Rand.
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/07/17226153-rand-...

Are people this brainwashed!?

Good for Rand, but Carney had his fingers crossed.

Now they will have to kidnap up, ship us to GITMO, tie us to one of the numerous rocks on those beaches, and drone strike us THERE.

Localism is for people who can still sleep at night even though somebody they don't know in a city they have never been is doing things differently. ("Localism, A Philosophy of Government" on Amazon for Kindle or Barnes and Noble ebook websites)

Am I safe if my passport

is expired?

Defend Liberty!

The world is FLAT!

NO wrong again.

sovereign

Vindicated? NO

Placated. YES

πολλα γαρ πταιομεν απαντες ει τις εν λογω ου πταιει ουτος τελειος ανηρ δυνατος χαλιναγωγησαι και ολον το σωμα

Hope Rand keeps that letter...

in a very special safe place.

But Eric Holder sold assault rifles to Mexican drug lords.

Why do we get so excited over his mere words when he has a history of lies and deceit.

The murderous criminals who conspired to kill US border agents are still in charge.

Besides the fact that regardless of what Holder says, Obama thinks that he is supreme king and dictator with authority to do whatever he wants.

Where is the statement from Barry Obama?

.

I want to order an 'Easy

I want to order an 'Easy Button' from Staples online and send it to the Whitehouse with a note 'For all your hard work in answering a simple yes/no question, Go ahead.. you've earned it'. But i'm afraid the device, having a solid base and a large red button, would be misconstrued and I would be declared an imminent threat. My cats don't deserve the collateral damage brought forth by a missile strike.

Let me make sure I understand this..

So, Eric Holder, who has sold guns to dangerous cartels with a record of killing innocent people is telling us that a man who has killed innocent people abroad and can't be honest about his birth certificate or his college transcripts promises not to drone strike people here? Am I to believe that such dishonest people have a moral conflict about lying to us today when their past records indicate otherwise?

I will not believe that the US Government will not consider drone strikes here until those who foment fear are no longer in positions of power here in the US.

________________________________________

I do not like the title.

Vindicated from what?

From DP posters' fickle attitude and mistaken assumption that Libertarian movement means fighting against bankers, Zionists and flouride?

Nice find of a lame letter, dducks.

The comments are great, though. Thanks for posting the letter for us!

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox

That doesn't go far enough.

That doesn't go far enough. No citizen under any circumstance can be bombed with a drone. Drones should not be used for any purpose within US borders except during a foreign invasion.

What Holder confirmed completely misses the point. They are going to claim that certain US citizens are actually domestic terrorists and are thus engaged in combat on US soil and use drones on them - that is the entire purpose of the drone army. Holder basically leaves the door open for that option. They are putting 30,000 drones in our skies.

We need to outlaw any and all drones from being used by domestic law enforcement, DHS, military within US borders. Simply by allowing them to be put in place ensures they will be used for whatever purposes they deem necessary.

In order to prove that a US citizen has engaged in combat they should have to prove that that is the case - they can apprehend that suspect without the use of drones.

I don't want to see any drones

flying over the USA, for any reason. I don't want weaponized drones, and I don't want ones used to spy on us, either.

Another thing that has come to mind, but that I haven't expressed online until now is this:

An article the other day stated that a pilot in NY saw a drone--if I remember correctly, it was when he was in the process of landing. Since these things are UNMANNED, what happens when one malfunctions, say near an airport and is in a direct-collision course with an inbound or outgoing airplane? No "quick-thinking reflexes" can be employed to prevent a possible collision (on the part of the drones)since THEY ARE UNMANNED! What then, huh? Do any of the slimy drone lobbyists and/or slimy politicians who will be making a bundle should these 'things' take to our skies have an answer to this scenario? Or do they even care?
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To be quite honest, I don't want to see any drones employed ANYWHERE.

O.P.O.G.G. - Fighting the attempted devolution of the rEVOLution
Ron Paul 2012...and beyond
BAN ELECTRONIC VOTING!!

In what scenario could the

In what scenario could the government claim that use of a drone on a US citizen whether engaged in combat or not would not pose a threat to innocents? If someone is suspected of being engaged in combat, can they attack them with a drone at any time... say in their home when other people are around like they do in Afghanistan and Iraq?

I think the biggest win...

I think the biggest win here was the discussion! People are waking up! Keep it rolling folks.

Agreed, plus - on Facebook

Agreed, plus - on Facebook anyway - regular people are beginning to understand that in fact they hold all the cards in this domestic war.

Diddly meet Squat

.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

The devil's in the details.

(not engaged in combat) could become the deadliest parenthetical comment in US law.
OK, Mr. Carney... Go back and ask your Master how he defines "combat."

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

It sets up

lines, though. That's the point.

If a drone strike ever hits a Starbuck's (or similar situation) now even a dictator would find it hard to argue they were "in combat". Without such clarity they could say "they were terrorists/enemy combatants" which would be enough for the public to excuse it.

as far as I'm concerned EVERY SINGLE

govt employee is a tyrant working on behalf of banksters.

All this political play, and it's a play, a theater is for sheeple populace consumption; chances are, considering the fact that something like 35% were against the illegal IraqWar II invasion/occupation, then after a TV campaign that number became 77% (regardless of the nature of all polls being push-polls, those numbers are only used by and for and against the supposedly politically involved Americans, which I would gather by voting participation would make up about 30% of the 315 million of us).

So, for the sake of conversation, using that poll number shift as a barometer, I would not be surprised at all the next time gvt terrorists propagandize that another 'Chris Dorner' is on the loose, if Amerikans end up gladly cheering for the Drone-Hellfire missiling vs that next said 'Dorner,' whether he's a real thug or terrorist, or a false flag. Hell, observe the shift from the pro-gun culture trajectory even by the State-organ Gallup Poll, to now a two digit shift in favor of gun control, however gamed those poll numbers always are. And that happened after a sustained 4weeks of TV/YouTube/Newspaper OpEd campaign. Apparently, history shows that for the gullible majority of sheeple, it really doesn't take much to move their uneducated opinion.

So at the least, for now, since I don't expect much of them, nor take them seriously, or believe anything they say, the fact that public pressure and Rand's principled stance indeed FORCED them to respond to say specifically that the POTUS does not have the power to murder an unarmed non-combantant on US soil, is a start. Regardless of the overall reality of their tyranny, it's indeed a good start.

Frankly, I won't be satisfied short of a Nuremberg 2.0 vs EVERY administration since JFK. But reality of the age of the former govt apparatchiks is such that we can really only try those since Carter's admin.

Of course, in a 'fair' universe, they would unequivocally announce that NO GOVT has any inherent 'rights,' let alone the power to murder one of its own employers, the citizenry.

But we're not there yet. lol.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

I'd say you nailed it.

I just read a sentence I am still processing. So now Rand is voting for Brennan? I thought the whole point of the filibuster was to deny the elite their boy. Now it appears the whole point was so that Rand could prove that in the end, he's their boy, too?
It has just been a craptastic day, all around. It seems I am on trial at the moment and did not even know court was in session. My attorney daughter has decided it is time to jerk my chain some more, it is SO entertaining to watch my heart break.

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

I would actually take one thing Dr. Paul stated a while back,

to heart: low expectations.

Same as during and after RP2008 and RP2012; personally I never focused on him winning.

I've always known that it's about spreading ideas and waking up remnants. He did the best he could; he woke up MILLIONS of remnants worldwide. Just look around you!

What each of us do with it from then on were out of his hands, But, frankly it was never in his hands, to begin with.

I always respected Ernie Hancock (FreedomsPhoenix.com, and the original author of our very own R3VOLution logo)'s view. He too understands and respects what the whole Paul family is about. He thanks him for the message, his decades of principled consistency, and record that any of us can point to, to state to others 'see, here's evidence!' that lends them obvious credibility, as a basis for a launch point, to spread Freedom principles. And he's always stated that, because of that, he never really got involved in the actual campaign side. He knows politics is ALL theater.

Like Ernie, while I too respect those who actively engage it, pour in their time, sweat, blood, and their own hard earned wealth, it's not for everyone. One difference is that, I understand that everyone has a role, and different avenues of approaching it. Even as an AnCap/voluntaryist, I understand distinctly that I do not exist in a vacuum; I understand that without minarchists, constitutionalists, paleo-conservatives' active political efforts, agorists/voluntaryists numbers would've never grown, nor offered an active buffer to the statists' tyrannical efforts in govt. Thus I financially and morally contribute, when and how I can. But active politics is not for everyone.

It's always been about the culture.

We'd have never had 'constitutional carry' (aside from the fact that cops can temporarily seize your guns at traffic stop for their 'safety' which makes the liberty tool kinda moot at that point, be that as it may, you get the gist) in growing number of states, without people like Ernie laying down the groundwork, outside of politics, but directly engaging everyday people.

We'd never had End the Fed culture without the likes of GE Griffin, Aaron Russo, Alex Jones, or Ron Paul toiling away for years.

One point of contention though:

This is why it kinda disgusts me the direction Adam Kokesh has taken, out of his entire R3VOL experience; he honestly looked to Dr. Paul as a father figure, despite publicly portraying himself as otherwise on his internet shows.

Adam actually wanted RP to directly answer to him for all of his own personal qualms, as if he were 'entitled' to it (gee how collectivist liberal of him, eh?).

That's not to say that I can't see where Adam's coming from. But his reaction after Paulfest, from merely being disappointed to... for a temporary time being, actively smearing Dr. Paul online like a pissed off petty teenager, was really sad, considering his own personal background and experience as a veteran waking up, to having his own brief TV show, which I fully supported, to his rather articulate communication skills especially when confronting statists, I KNOW that he can CHOOSE to speak better and not have to resort to BS like putting dunce caps on Dr. Paul's head in his TV segment graphics, just to make a point that 'see he's not some holy messiah!' It's like, 'uh, no sh*t Adam, but anyone can do the same to you, regardless of whether you deserve it or not, but does that make it okay? no!'

It's clear from Kokesh's reaction, it's one of a dude whose girlfriend broke his heart, or something: definitely one of 'she doth protests too much.'

Long point short, I've long decided what our R3VOLution was all about: it was about building a culture of liberty.

And look, Dr. Paul, without aiming to, has done just that!

That is why I believe the old school libertarians, ancaps, voluntaryists, agorists like those at Mises/Lew Rockwell et al, AntiWar.com, Ernie Hancocks of the world, in the finality don't really 'care' about Ron Paul or Rand Paul, per-se (well except for Lew, he genuinely loves Ron like his own father), it's about the culture.

Do we have enough critical mass? That, is the only real solution. Govts don't matter, in the end.

Govts, in the finality, don't matter; it's always been about just how much the active faction of any given population are willing to put up with whatever level of tyranny present at the time, before the populace throws it off, then only to recycle it after decades of wealth followed by decadence then revolution, then press recycle button again.

So, when the dam breaks, no one can stop it. It's just history repeating itself.

Seriously, who here HONESTLY believes we can 'fix' the political system when they own the monetary system, the electoral system, and the military system???

This is the fastest sinking Titanic, probably in recorded human history!!!

Going agorist Galt is the only solution I personally see.

Though realistically, a full restoration to a strictly Constructionist Constitutional Republic in the interim is acceptable, as despite everything, it's still a historical, written document that everyone can refer back to even have something TO debate over; considering the fact that majority of this nation is illiterate (okay a bit overstated, but you get the gist), but definitely historically amnesic, philosophically vapid, what chance do we have in convincing those same people who can't even understand, let alone live by philosophy underlined in the current Constitution we do have?

No one follows the Constitution that we do have, as is, there's no way in hell they'll 'get' voluntaryism. At least, IMHO, currently.

It's always that question of 'what follows the ashes of collapse of empire/revolution, ain't it?

But, post this soon-to-be-coming-inevitable-currency collapse, or at least a SDR reshuffling, once the the entire 'collapse' process finalizes or at least begins to, we'd have gone through even bigger wealth-transfer/theft than in 2008.

Then, all we'll be left with is, to either simply ignore the banksters debt demands vs us, or confront & depose them, try them at a Nuremberg 2.0 of sorts, or simply keep developing our own parallel systems of medium of exchange, private laws, arms, etc. and make them de facto irrelevant. Or... I suppose some combination or all of those.

Who knows for certain? Only history will tell.

So while I've always been open to a miracle during the RP2008 and RP2012, but with blackbox voting machines everywhere, knowing how corrupt the system is, I had no illusions about the outcomes of Dr. Paul's and our efforts.

But then why fight, you may inquire?

Well... we're silly humans. That's why;o)

We hope. We dream. We carry on, despite the obvious. We're silly and beautiful like that, no?

==================================================

PS. Major grammatical/contextual mea culpa:

what I meant to say:

"35% were against the illegal IraqWar II invasion/occupation, then after a TV campaign that number became 77%"

what I meant to say was:

"only 35% were FOR the illegal IraqWar II invasion/occupation, then after a TV campaign that number became 77%"

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

Silly and beautiful, yes.

Agorism / voluntaryism - I agree. And Jubilee. I think "The People" have the tools they need, but cling to what they know - "politics" - rather than embrace a truly brave new world. We are being herded to the cowards' new world instead.

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

Here's the video!

it's from the neoCon outlet National Review, and the clip itself is from Mrs.Greenspan@MSDNC, but it's the first one I could find.

Spread them far and wide!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y74dbCvikOg

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul