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I Gotta Admit Rand Is Winning Me Over

While I still don't hold out hope for a political answer to what's going on. I gotta admit as much as I hate Rands playing politics its working so far and he is good at it and is starting to win me over.

He is more well spoken and articulate then his Dad and more appealing to listen to for most people. He is sharp on his feet and willing to attack back when he is attacked and is good at doing it politely but firmly. Ron almost never responded to attacks even when he should have.

While a lot of conservatives like people like Cruz and Rubio Rand was the clear leader last night and made them look almost like amateurs and he is winning over a lot of people that would not give Ron the time of day...

Lets face it he is the best we got up there right now and is a natural leader and last night he showed some meddle and some real strategy in elevating his stock and gathering a following among his fellow senators and conservatives in general. So much so the old guard got scared and attacked him this morning.

I still have my concerns but after last night he could win the presidency he showed he has what it takes. Not that I think the puppet masters will allow him to win it for a minute but he could get the backing of most of the conservative base if he plays it right. It would be interesting if he got the majority of conservative backing just how far the establishment would go to keep him out and if nothing else make a serious mistake? Even though I think the elections are fixed if a super majority of people support him it is a lot harder for them to pull off their corruption.

It's a dirty game and he is willing to get a little dirty. We don't like that because most of us are principled but we're also spoiled with Ron's no compromise stands on principles. However maybe its time we get a little dirty with Rand if that's what it takes for a shot at getting this country back? We can't do any worse then what we are getting now... Just some thoughts I have been having maybe I am just out to lunch here?



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Ron Paul

Ron Paul has said many times that politicians are a reflection of the people. Do you disagree?

I think at least

he is showing some of you that he is not a "neo-con" because the real neo-cons do not like him.

"Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it."- Ron Paul

They don't have to like him,

all he has to do is what he is told by the GOP. And he hops to their tune. Rand and Glenn Beck are two of a kind.

Yes

He had me at Hello....

Rand has won me over..

but not completely. It's still not a guarantee that I will support him like his father. I really appreciate that Rand demonstrated what real effort is in terms of making a point and demanding an answer. Name one other politician currently in office that would stand on their feet for 13 hours without food or going to the bathroom to make a point... no one. The criticism from McCain is laughable, saying that Rand shouldn't question the president on this issue. Since when are people not supposed to question the president? McCain has been questioning the president on Benghazi for months now. Also McCain says, "there is no reason for the American people to be afraid of our government?" Oh really? Is that why someone has to molest me before getting on an airplane?

What can Rand Paul do to win over an Anarchist?

Nothing.

There's nothing Rand Paul is willing to do that can win over an Anarchist, because an Anarchists agenda is to destroy a Constitutional Republic. Rands isn't. Watch them start calling people sheep.

Oops. Too late.

I say let justice be served on the lot of em. They'll never be any help in the fight for liberty, because they won't fight, yet they covet power. They're worthless in the fight and to their own covetous desires.

Epic Fail!

I am an Anarchist or as I like to say a Volunteerist and I started the thread about him winning me over... Just because I am doesn't mean I don't recognize the way society is currently structured and the fact that we have to deal with it.

I am also a realist and understand a society based on pure volunteerism is not going to happen anytime soon short of some catastrophic break down of society and even then who knows what will emerge to take the place of the current society.

In the mean time I would be for a return to the constitution and the republic as that is much more likely to get some traction among the people then a pure volunteer society. And a system that could be accepted by most that could best protect our rights while we evolve to the point where a volunteer society could be feasible.

I am not against the Anarchist label except that it has a stigma with a false characterization for most people that has been ingrained for generations. I have even taught people on using the Constitution to protect their rights and promoted it here and elsewhere.

So your accusation that we are liars etc. is false as this thread and this post proves.

Here is a hint lumping people under one label as all the same and falsely calling them liars etc. is disingenuous at best and does nothing to bring people together on some common immediate goals like returning to the constitution and republic etc.

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End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

"I am an Anarchist who wants a catastrophic breakdown of society

"I am an Anarchist... I am also a realist and understand a society based on pure volunteerism(lol) is not going to happen anytime soon short of some catastrophic break down of society and even then who knows what will emerge to take the place of the current society."

That about sums you up: "I am an Anarchist who wants a catastrophic breakdown of society."

Couldn't of said it better myself. Like I said, I appreciate Anarchists who can at least be honest with themselves.

After your catastrophic breakdown, what replaces one society is not Anarchism or voluntarism, it's another society fit for people like you, destroyers who want catastrophic breakdowns. Justice will be served. You'll get the leaders you deserve, and there's nothing you'll be able to do to stop it except to dream about catastrophic destruction.

"In the mean time I would be for a return to the constitution and the republic"

Then don't call yourself an Anarchist. Call yourself what you are, a Republican. Join the real world. We're all waiting for you and cheering you on. We need help with these covetous people. I'm not an Anarchy leaning Republican. I'm a Libertarian, and as of now Anarchy won't create a society filled with liberty. It would create a playground for mans covetous nature, and if you understand what it is to covet, you know mans covetous nature leads to one thing; injustice. It leads to taking liberty by force.

"So your accusation that we are liars etc. is false as this thread and this post proves."

Then stop lying and stop starting threads like "epic fail". There's no fail here. Even at the DP, an Anarchists snake oil just doesn't really sell.

"Here is a hint lumping people under one label as all the same and falsely calling them liars etc."

Like I said, don't blame me that you're an Anarchist. I didn't make you choose Anarchism. It's not my word nor did I write the definition of what an Anarchist is. Anarchists need violence because they can't win the debate, and most fully reject the idea that the answer lies within debate or politics, because they can win in neither.

There's a VERY good reason that you can't find any representatives who call themselves Anarchists, although I'm sure some of them (from both camps), like you, long for a catastrophic breakdown of society.

I knew it. FreedomsReigning is an anarchist.

Right there is his confession - "I am an anarchist who wants a breakdown of society. I could not have said it better myself."

Not only are you a violence loving anarchist, you're a dweeb. Seeing the handwriting on the wall is not the same thing as liking what it says, and you know it. You are SO desperate to be governed, I'll take pity on you. I'll be your queen. Now, you are all safe from everything because I said so. You get along now and self govern, I don't have time to micro-manage you. If you piss me off, I'll just send a drone out for you.
Anarchy is scary. Long live the Queen!

Oh, and please correct the spelling of your name. You would be "Freedoms reining." Clearly those freedom lovers need reined in, too. Good work, your Queen is pleased.

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

Remember what I told you Fishy?

You aren't a victim. You're a self worshiping liar.

He says he's an Anarchist and the only way that he can get Anarchy is through a catastrophic breakdown of society. 1 + 1 = 2

"Not only are you a violence loving anarchist, you're a dweeb."

More meaningless lies and insults from Fishy. Statist, Anarchist, which am I? It's getting hard to keep all the lies and insults straight. Although, I must admit, you using Anarchist as an insult pleases me.

"Good work, your Queen is pleased."

I have no doubt as a self worshiping liar, you would love to be a Queen. Thanks for clarifying your position. I would never want to make the mistake of thinking you were EVER any use to liberty. When I want lies and insults, or to worship a Queen with a God complex, I'll now go to you Fishy. (That means never.)

Never? And yet here you are.

You are putting words in everyone's mouth that are not there. And it is right there in black and white for all to see.
Your queen is pretty laid back, though. I don't mind you having opinions, or even being an idiot. I don't even mind if you pick another queen, or king. You seem to have a real fear of liberty, I don't really want to be responsible for a coward. Go ahead and pick yourself a new king or queen, just understand that nothing in heaven or earth gives you the right to pick a king or queen for me.

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

Give me one example.

"You are putting words in everyone's mouth that are not there."

Give me one example. I didn't put any words into his mouth. He calls HIMSELF an Anarchist and admits that the only chance Anarchism has is a catastrophic collapse of society. With him, debate and the power of ideas don't work, because he serves a broken idea that is undesirable, impossible, and indefensible.

If he doesn't want a catastrophic collapse and what he ACTUALLY wants is a Constitutional Republic (honest he does), he wouldn't call himself an Anarchist. He would call himself a Republican.

Then you popped in, Queen Fishy, here to save the day with the only weapons she has; insults and lies.

Enjoy your new kingdom Fishy. Swim into the thread and find all those 'words I put into peoples mouths' liar. Call down the worst you can produce, and when you realize thunderbolts don't fly from your God Complex fingers, pepper in as many cowards, dweebs, and retards as you can. It still won't change objective reality.

You're Nothing But a Pathetic Liar

You're nothing but a pathetic liar incapable of having any meaningful discussion. Quote me in context saying The only chance Anarchism has is a catastrophic collapse of Society? You can't do it! You have to clip the context off and then lie about it. It pathetic to say the least. The sad part is you actually believe your false arguments and think others do too... That's all you got to justify your philosophy of monopolized force of others what a sad pathetic little man you are... Sigh!

Watch if you dare your entire supposed philosophy get destroyed by an anarchist. (again I won't be holding my breath)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvo-yEymNuQ

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End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

Don't blame me or get all pissy about it Anarchist.

I already did, and nobody knows better than you that the only way you can get Anarchism is through a catastrophic collapse of society, and yet, you still call yourself an Anarchist. Do you think that's funny? Is that like your way of letting all the other Anarchists know that you're in, and ready to do whatever is needed?

"I am an Anarchist or as I like to say a Volunteerist(lol) and I started the thread about him winning me over... Just because I am doesn't mean I don't recognize the way society is currently structured and the fact that we have to deal with it.

I am also a realist and understand a society based on pure volunteerism (Anarchy) is not going to happen anytime soon short of some catastrophic break down of society and even then who knows what will emerge to take the place of the current society."

Is that context enough? You sound like you have it all figured out. Now you need to decide if you're willing to die fighting for your politics, because I am, and clearly debate won't get the job done when it comes to Anarchism. You know that better than most.

Don't blame me or get all pissy about it Anarchist. Be more careful about what you say. Being an Anarchist requires a total commitment to denying objective reality, and you let some slip into the discussion. This isn't my fault. I tried to warn you off this crap. Win or lose, it'll only get you hurt, and I don't like seeing liberty minded people wasting their time with bad ideas that can only be born from bad fruit.

PS, I didn't notice, but you even included the obligatory Anarchist link so you can pretend your political philosophy is defensible. Believe me, it's not. I've let every one of these Anarchists try, and it always ends the same way, with some link to Anarchist propaganda. If "destroying me" was so easy, why is it none of you can ever seem to get the job done?

I'm nothing right? It should be easy for you. In your world I'm just a retard. If YOU can't explain Anarchism and the only chance it has is through catastrophe, why do you think somebody as lowly as me would have ANY chance. I as a Libertarian am hopelessly worthless to your Anarchist agenda with or without your links and coaching.

And you're still trying to

And you're still trying to lie. My quote says nothing of the kind as you try to falsely characterize it. You seem to think just repeating bullshit over and over will make people believe it... Sigh!

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End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

Wow falsely characterize Much Do Ya?

Wow falsely characterize and troll much do ya? I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but as I suspected it is clear you are nothing but a mentally challenged troll with an agenda and not very good at it either.

Yeah I am hoping for the breakdown of society... Sigh! What an idiotic statement!

Gee taking my comments out of context and then lying about them and then accusing me of lying is so genius wow nobody will ever notice...Sigh /sarcasm

Oh yeah you convinced me I should join you in the republicans...Sigh! Why would I want to join you in a group of a bunch of lying sniveling assholes who give lip service to the constitution while they shred it?... Yeah the republicans are for the constitution... Right thanks for the hardy laugh!

And you're no libertarian!

You should study some history (I won't hold my breath) instead of repeating false propaganda and definitions about Anarchist societies as they have done quite well in history without all the trappings of what we know as the state contrary to your false characterizations. http://lilarajiva.wordpress.com/2007/07/18/murray-rothbard-a...

Thank god for free speech so we know who all the idiots and assholes are...

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End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

Remember what I said about

Remember what I said about Anarchists and calling people retards?

"I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but as I suspected it is clear you are nothing but a mentally challenged troll with an agenda and not very good at it either."

I don't care what you want Anarchist. What you want is Anarchy, and know the only way you'll get is through a catastrophic breakdown of society.

They weren't my words. They were your words, and an Anarchists words are completely predictable once you see them for what they are. In the end, calling people retards and sheep while they dream of a catastrophic breakdown of society is what being an Anarchist is all about.

The two things are connected; one, thinking people are retards, and two; unjustly wanting a catastrophic breakdown of society.

PS thanks for bumping the

PS thanks for bumping the thread troll

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End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

I Invite all the Anarchists to love on Rand Paul.

I love the fact that all the Anarchists have to sit here watching you love on Rand Paul and talking about how he's won you over. It must just be KILLING them. I can hear the grinding of teeth from here.

I Invite all the Anarchists to come and love on Rand Paul.

Bump +1

We are not "all" here.

Indeed, anarchists don't really do things as a group. You are being an idiot, so I showed up to enjoy the show. But since you have now specifically invited me here to love on Rand Paul, I am here.
I love Rand Paul. He is my brother in this human family. I respect Rand Paul, he is making a gallant effort to reform a government that is probably beyond redemption. But I don't want Rand to be my king. I already have a queen. So do you, and you are getting on her nerves.

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

Hey, this queen gig might be more fun than I thought...

You think he thinks I really have a drone? Something shut him up. lol!

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

Absolutist always crack me

Absolutist always crack me up. You claim to be a libertarian so you don't believe in forced taxation but you pay them anyways, why? Hey you are either a libertarian or not right?... Sigh!

It is always funny how idiots like this can only TRY to argue by setting up strawman arguments with false characterizations of out of context and even partial sentences because they cannot mount any real argument with what is actually said in context. It is entertaining even if annoying... LOL!

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End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

I've answered you, now answer me.

"You claim to be a libertarian so you don't believe in forced taxation but you pay them anyways, why?"

Are you not willing to pay to defend liberty? No. An Anarchist believes that all taxation is theft, and blames injustice on government. If all don't pay their fair share for justice, those who do pay will expect privilege for paying their share. Will you not give even a penny if it's in the form of taxation?

If not, go find a tree and live there for as long as you can, and when you get hungry, remember that you're a man not a monkey, climb back down and join humanity. We'll be waiting for you. The garden is long gone, and as long as you produce something of value, there will be somebody else who unjustly wants what you've created. Until that ends, your only hope as an Anarchist is to believe that injustice is an illusion created by government or that you can live in a tree surviving off bananas.

I've answered you, now answer me.

Tell me about how you're going to stop me from showing up with an army of muggers to take everything you think is yours, and don't tell me about something that sounds like forming a collective, or grouping up to defend liberty. Don't tell me how you're going to create a state or a government to defend liberty.

You reject my agenda. Remember? You reject justice and paying your fair share for it. You reject equality under the law whether you know it or not, because people will demand something for their money, and you aren't willing to pay your share. Anarchists reject the very concept of government and want to destroy it with force, or as you so aptly put; with a catastrophic breakdown of society.

Tell me how we're all going to be free and have our liberty in a world filled real people who don't give a damn what you think anymore. They CHOOSE injustice because they want what injustice offers, plunder, slaves, and dominion.

What they care about is what YOU HAVE and how it is they can take it from you.

Real Answers

"I've answered you, now answer me."

You haven't answered anything all you have done is made up a false characterization and strawman and tried to claim it was mine.

Quoting me:
"You claim to be a libertarian so you don't believe in forced taxation but you pay them anyways, why?"
"Are you not willing to pay to defend liberty? No. An Anarchist believes that all taxation is theft, and blames injustice on government. If all don't pay their fair share for justice, those who do pay will expect privilege for paying their share. Will you not give even a penny if it's in the form of taxation?"

And here we have it you cannot even restate may argument correctly even when you quote it directly above your false argument. All you do is rant about what you falsely believe an Anarchist believes. This is why it is impossible to have a meaningful discussion with you. However for the benefit of others I will respond to your false arguments.

Nowhere have I said I am not willing to pay to defend liberty That is your false argument. You wrongly assume that theftation is required to defend liberty. I prefer to decide what my fair share is and whether the cause is for actually for liberty and not some unjust war of opportunity for evil interests rather then have some group of thugs claim they have false authority to steal from me in the name of preserving liberty while they trample mine in the very act.

"If so, go find a tree and live there for as long as you can, and when you get hungry, remember that you're a man not a monkey, climb back down and join humanity. We'll be waiting for you. The garden is long gone, and as long as you produce something of value, there will be somebody else who unjustly wants what you've created. Until that ends, your only hope as an Anarchist is to believe that injustice is an illusion created by government or that you can live in a tree surviving off bananas."

Another ridiculous false argument and assumptions. It of course falsely Assumes Anarchists are hermits of some sort that want no contact with others and then ridiculously asserts that in order to join the human race one must submit to the false authority of some gang of thugs labled government and that anarchist cannot work together to protect rights or fight a common enemy or produce products and services etc. Ah the joys of listening to someone regurgitate their programing and actually think it is their own independent thoughts... Sigh!

Here is a couple questions for you to think about (but don't hurt yourself) What rights or powers does the state have that individuals do not? And if the state derives it powers from the people as it claims how can the people give the state imaginary powers if they do not have those powers themselves as individuals? IOW if individuals do not have the right to steal how can they collectively then delegate the right to steal (which they don't have) to the state?

"Tell me about how you're going to stop me from showing up with an army of muggers to take everything you think is yours, and don't tell me about something that sounds like forming a collective, or grouping up to defend liberty. Don't tell me how you're going to create a state or a government to defend liberty."

Again your whole argument is based on a false assumption that Anarchist cannot work together to protect their liberty or repel a common enemy without claiming false authority over others. You know your argument fails because you even try to ridiculously tell me how I can only answer based on your false argument and assumption.

If I and some of my neighbors shoot you for trying to take our stuff that does not make us a state or any less volunteerist. We can voluntarily chose to shoot your ass since you are our mutual enemy. We can even have a voluntary agreement to shoot anyone who tries to take our stuff. That does not make us a state claiming false authority over others.

You reject my agenda. Remember? You reject justice and paying your fair share for it. You reject equality under the law whether you know it or not, because people will demand something for their money, and you aren't willing to pay your share. Anarchists reject the very concept of government and want to destroy it with force, or as you so aptly put; with a catastrophic breakdown of society.

Wow you are a real piece of work...Sigh! You've got it backward by rejecting your idiocy I am rejecting injustice! Giving some arbitrary group a monopoly on force just because you label them government is anything but equality and justice as we see every day now with government.

Nowhere have I said I want to destroy anything your false argument not withstanding. You are the only one advocating force here that you would steal from me at gun point in the name of liberty...

"Tell me how we're all going to be free and have our liberty in a world filled real people who don't give a damn what you think anymore. They CHOOSE injustice because they want what injustice offers, plunder, slaves, and dominion.
What they care about is what YOU HAVE and how it is they can take it from you."

Wow you describe our current government controlled society well here! The simple answer to your question is to stop giving away our power to the state monopoly on force that imposes all the injustice, plunder, slavery, and dominion on us that they do and are ever increasing it.

The state has murdered, plundered, stolen and ruined more lives then any group of criminals in history all in the name of freedom, justice, law, and order... No thanks time for humanity to wake up from the illusion of the state being our wonderful benefactors that supposedly protect us from all the things they in reality perpetrate on us...

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End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

So you want privately funded goon squads aye Anarchist?

"I prefer to decide what my fair share is and whether the cause is for actually for liberty and not some unjust war of opportunity for evil interests rather then have some group of thugs claim they have false authority to steal from me in the name of preserving liberty while they trample mine in the very act."

Who are you going to pay to buy the collective violence you seek? So you want privately funded goon squads and a society fighting over who can pay for the most violence? You want to talk to me about false authority?

The government justly has the authority to tax you. Do you think you have your own country or something? That's right, you WANT both your own country and government, but you aren't willing to fight for one, and need to try and imagine you can destroy mine and build on the ashes. There are about 7 billion people on this planet, and it's getting pretty crowded. There's a VERY good reason Anarchists don't have their own country, because they're easily defeated, and aren't fit for power.

You want to be able to build a private government built on voluntary incorporation, and I don't trust you to do that. If you tried, I would retake what you unjustly think is yours and what you could only get through "a catastrophic collapse of society".

I would reclaim what you tried to lord over with your wallet. You'd only have it for an instant and for the same reason you knew it would require "a catastrophic collapse of society" for you to get in the first place.

You buying goons and privilege in a free market of violence isn't going to work for me or anybody else, and until you pick up your gun and try to get it, my government will continue to tax you. If you don't like that, leave.

Illegitimate? No. I say you buying collective violence in a free market to serve what you think is justice is illegitimate. It's an insult to legitimacy. What you want to build gets run over and destroyed for the same reason you can't create it without a catastrophic collapse.

"Another ridiculous false argument and assumptions. It of course falsely Assumes Anarchists are hermits of some sort that want no contact with others and then ridiculously asserts that in order to join the human race one must submit to the false authority of some gang of thugs labled government and that anarchist cannot work together to protect rights or fight a common enemy or produce products and services etc. Ah the joys of listening to someone regurgitate their programing and actually think it is their own independent thoughts... Sigh!"

Well, I suppose you could climb down out of the tree and run to your Anarchist utopia? Oops. Can't find one? I guess you'll have to just join the rest of us, and unless you're willing to pick up a gun and create that pile of rubble you need, that won't be changing anytime soon.

So you're going to work together with other Anarchists creating something that can fight off a Nation State that sees you as illegitimate and ripe for the taking? I doubt it. Anarchists are loners and sovereigns who hate the people around them. I'm a retard remember, and I'm a Libertarian... I can only imagine how much you hate all the Democrats and Republicans. Even in Anarchy, you'll STILL see your neighbors as retards and sheep. Anarchy won't magically create new people to replace the old ones. I say you'll still be a hermit who condemns forming any collective. If you did form a collective, that would make you a phony right?

"Here is a couple questions for you to think about (but don't hurt yourself) What rights or powers does the state have that individuals do not?"

A government can initiate collective force against you and the only legitimate purpose of government force is to serve justice, and justice is IMPOSED upon immoral men like you. Nobody ever wants to face justice, but justice will always be served whether in this life or after. What they have is what you covet; power, and it's what you're unfit to wield. You aren't fit to freely buy power.

"Again your whole argument is based on a false assumption that Anarchist cannot work together to protect their liberty or repel a common enemy without claiming false authority over others."

That's not an answer and you know it. So you're going to create an Army aye? How big will your new nation be? Will there be a draft or will all the Anarchists just turn tail and run? I can't imagine any of you cooperating or picking up a gun to defend your country or your property. You reject the very idea. Do you think your army of Anarchists is going to fend off a Nation State of people who know they have the right to what you think is yours?

Like I've said many times; Freedom, liberty and their common defense is an idea Anarchists ridicule, but now you're going to try and do just that? I don't think so. My money says that all you Anarchists run for the hills, so that's what I'll spend "my share" on, taking what you never had a right to. I'll retake what you only got your hands on through a catastrophic collapse of society.

I'll call it Operation Snake Hunt.

"If I and some of my neighbors shoot you for trying to take our stuff that does not make us a state or any less volunteerist. We can voluntarily chose to shoot your ass since you are our mutual enemy. We can even have a voluntary agreement to shoot anyone who tries to take our stuff. That does not make us a state claiming false authority over others."

You and your neighbors are going to shoot my ass aye? No... I don't think so. Your plan is to use civilians to fight soldiers in a modern war of aggression? You and your neighbors will be refugees. The only asses ripe for shooting would be yours while you run for your life.

"Wow you are a real piece of work...Sigh! You've got it backward by rejecting your idiocy I am rejecting injustice! Giving some arbitrary group a monopoly on force just because you label them government is anything but equality and justice as we see every day now with government."

No, you're saying that you have no idea where injustice comes from. There is nothing arbitrary about the government. People fought and died to be free of Anarchists and destroyers like you. You calling government arbitrary just reinforces that what you really want is power. There's no monopoly on force. You can defend yourself. You just can't get your gangland government going because there's something justly stopping you, and your only hope is to call it arbitrary.

You didn't even address the point I made. In a free market of violence, the people who pay will expect privilege for their money. They won't want to pay your way through the world anymore than you want to have to pay for somebody else. They'll call it theft and taxation to have to pay to protect YOUR rights.

Freedom, liberty, and their common defense, and you don't want to be a part of that. I say you want to buy privilege in a free market of violence, and the reason you want that comes through in the way you pepper your comments with "idiot" and "retard".

I say you're and Anarchist destroyer and that justice should be served on the lot of ya.

Last One Troll

"Who are you going to pay to buy the collective violence you seek? So you want privately funded goon squads and a society fighting over who can pay for the most violence? You want to talk to me about false authority?"

LOL you really think people are buying your bullshit don't you... So privately funded goon squads as opposed to theft funded goon squads? I'll take competing goons squads over monopolized goon squads claiming false authority to steal from you to support their violence and control over you any day...

The government justly has the authority to tax you. Do you think you have your own country or something? That's right, you WANT both your own country and government, but you aren't willing to fight for one, and need to try and imagine you can destroy mine and build on the ashes. There are about 7 billion people on this planet, and it's getting pretty crowded. There's a VERY good reason Anarchists don't have their own country, because they're easily defeated, and aren't fit for power.

Wow this is pretty comical. You just pull shit out of your ass like a monkey and throw it across the room and hope it sticks to something... LOL! Government has no just authority over me! As usual you did not answer my questions on where government gets its just authority to steal from me? How can anyone have authority over me without my consent? Where do they get it? Because some group of embiciles says they do? If no individual has the authority to steal from me (and for the mentally challenged that means take money/property from me against my will, and calling it a tax makes it no less theft) where do they magically conjure the authority from as a group when none of the individuals that make up the group have that authority?

No where have I said am not willing to fight for liberty. Why do you think you have any right to tell me what to do? A long as I am not harming anyone what I do is none of your business. Why do you think you have the right to steal my money/property from me against my will just because you call it a tax?

Anarchist have their own country as much as anyone else. This country is as much mine as it is yours. Just because you think you can initiate force to steal from me does not make it any less my country and home.

Idiots wonder why their society is crumbling before their eyes? It's because it is based on theft and force. That is why no society in history has ever endured they have all fallen because their foundations are built on sand. This one is no different. I have never advocated destroying anything that's your lie. I don't need to destroy anything your theft and forced based society is crumbling under it's own dead weight.

"You want to be able to build a private government built on voluntary incorporation, and I don't trust you to do that. If you tried, I would retake what you unjustly think is yours and what you could only get through "a catastrophic collapse of society".

Stop trying to put words in my mouth it only makes you look like an idiot. I do not want a private corporate government we already have that. And it's amazing you seem to inept to see that all the things you claim anarchy would cause are already in full effect from the very government you think protects us from it all. Please get rid of your TV and buy a good water filter.

"I would reclaim what you tried to lord over with your wallet. You'd only have it for an instant and for the same reason you knew it would require "a catastrophic collapse of society" for you to get in the first place."

And you accuse me of wanting to initiate force LOL... Wow what a piece of work you are... You better start fighting the government because they are the ones lording over you and they stole your wallet to do it!

And just for the record I said Anarchy would not happen ANYTIME SOON short of a societal collapse but even then there is no telling what would replace the previous society. I never said I wanted a societal collapse that is your strawman lying argument. However we might find out sooner then later as the government you so revere has destroyed society and any semblance of freedom we once had.

You buying goons and privilege in a free market of violence isn't going to work for me or anybody else, and until you pick up your gun and try to get it, my government will continue to tax you. If you don't like that, leave.

Like a dog to his own vomit you prefer a monopoly on violence even though that violence is used to rob you imprison you and even murder you if you resist. The major point you miss is that in an Anarchist society violence is only initiated in self defense not preemptive to rob and plunder from the people and other countries like in your illustrious government. Only criminals initiate violence for any reason other reason then self defense.

Illegitimate? No. I say you buying collective violence in a free market to serve what you think is justice is illegitimate. It's an insult to legitimacy. What you want to build gets run over and destroyed for the same reason you can't create it without a catastrophic collapse.

Its funny how you are defending a monopoly on violence. You are so blinded you can't conceive of violence except as aggressively attacking others and taking what they have and killing them. Which is exactly what your government does daily.

Anarchist believe in non-aggression and only using violence in self defense. There will always be bad people and everyone has the right to defend themselves against such. The only place that non-aggression principle gets turned on its head is when the government are the bad people. For some reason people like you are under the illusion the they have a right to preemptively initiate violence to steal and loot and even murder and it is ok because they have the label of government that gives them some false authority to violate rights rob plunder and kill people with impunity.

"Well, I suppose you could climb down out of the tree and run to your Anarchist utopia? Oops. Can't find one? I guess you'll have to just join the rest of us, and unless you're willing to pick up a gun and create that pile of rubble you need, that won't be changing anytime soon.

Oh it will be changing sooner then you think and I don't have to do anything your government has seen to that...

"A government can initiate collective force against you and the only legitimate purpose of government force is to serve justice, and justice is IMPOSED upon immoral men like you.

LOL and you claim to be a libertarian... Sigh! So what happened to the non-aggression principle? Government has no legitimate purpose. Oh the irony you are advocating theft force and agression against me with violence and I am immoral ROTFLMAO! So do tell us why am I immoral what have I done to harm you that you claim I am immoral and willing to initiate violence against me? You are nothing but an obvious troll who knows little if anything about libertarianism...

Quoting me:
"Again your whole argument is based on a false assumption that Anarchist cannot work together to protect their liberty or repel a common enemy without claiming false authority over others."
"That's not an answer and you know it. So you're going to create an Army aye? How big will your new nation be? Will there be a draft or will all the Anarchists just turn tail and run? I can't imagine any of you cooperating or picking up a gun to defend your country or your property. You reject the very idea. Do you think your army of Anarchists is going to fend off a Nation State of people who know they have the right to what you think is yours?"

Of course it is an answer and it destroys your entire ridiculous false argument! The only reason I would need to create an army is because some idiot like you wants to initiate violence on me and others for no reason other then to impose his will on us as you have said several times now. It is comical how you try to pretend to know what Anarchists or libertarians believe...

"Like I've said many times; Freedom, liberty and their common defense is an idea Anarchists ridicule, but now you're going to try and do just that? I don't think so. My money says that all you Anarchists run for the hills, so that's what I'll spend "my share" on, taking what you never had a right to. I'll retake what you only got your hands on through a catastrophic collapse of society."

You don't know the first thing about freedom and liberty much less what Anarchists and Libertarians believe. You are nothing but a totalitarian stooge threatening to initiate violence and murder against those who do not agree with you and your claimed false authority. Be careful what you wish for you just might get it except you'll be on the receiving end.

You and your neighbors are going to shoot my ass aye? No... I don't think so. Your plan is to use civilians to fight soldiers in a modern war of aggression? You and your neighbors will be refugees. The only asses ripe for shooting would be yours while you run for your life.

So you are planning to attack us and steal our stuff in a "modern war of aggression?? There you go again initiating aggression again which is of course a good way to get shot... Sigh! Lot of good all the modern fire power did in Vietnam Iraq and Afghanistan... Also Same thing the British said about the colonist... Actually most of my neighbors are all highly trained veterans so be careful you don't bite off more then you can chew. ;)

"I say you're and Anarchist destroyer and that justice should be served on the lot of ya."

And you'd still be wrong and you're still nothing but a pathetic liar still threatening me with violence for no reason. But your just a pathetic coward talking tough on the internet and trolling. I am afraid I am done with you I see no need to continue responding to ignorance lies and stupidity you have been sufficiently exposed for what you are. Go troll somewhere else Mr. fake libertarian...

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End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

So Anarchism is competing goon squads?

"I'll take competing goons squads over monopolized goon squads claiming false authority to steal from you to support their violence and control over you any day"

That's exactly what I'm telling people, what you want is a gangland government, warlord of the flies where you compete in a free market of violence using goon squads to wield the power you have no right to. People will be acting justly by killing you and your goon squads who thought The American Republic was something arbitrary.

Just GTFO. LEAVE before justice is served. It's not liberty you'll create. It's a wasteland of injustice with a bunch of wanna be kings and self worshiping Anarchists trying trying to buy authority rather than debate the use of authority.

"Wow this is pretty comical. You just pull shit out of your ass like a monkey and throw it across the room and hope it sticks to something... LOL! Government has no just authority over me!!"

Your neighbors have tasked them with serving justice, and making sure all the little wannabe warlords who want to buy goon squads to wield power are kept in check. Government will be acting justly when it meets you with violence. You are where injustice is born, because you unjustly want power. Justice will be served Anarchist, and that's what you're afraid of, and what you desperately don't want to have authority over you.

There's nothing arbitrary about the fact Anarchism doesn't exist, and government does, because in the end, all you want is a new government with yourself buying power in a free market of violence. You are why governments exist.

"As usual you did not answer my questions on where government gets its just authority to steal from me"

Yes I did, through blood, sweat, and treasure, something you as an Anarchist can't offer. There's nothing arbitrary about the fact The American Republic exists and there's nothing arbitrary about you as an Anarchist having no country. You want that to be something arbitrary, but you're a coward who won't offer any blood, sweat or treasure fighting for what you think is arbitrary, and nobody will join you because they want better than free range Anarcho-Warlordism.

Your neighbors do what you can't Anarchist, work together so they can have a country, and that's why you'll always be so easily defeated. /sigh...

"How can anyone have authority over me without my consent?"

I told you. Justice is imposed on people. Justice is NEVER something an Anarchist or anybody else wants to face, but you will none the less.

"Because some group of embiciles(lol) says they do?"

No, because they do, and if they didn't, you wouldn't be trying so hard to destroy what you'd call arbitrary, even though you KNOW it would take a catastrophic collapse in society for you to change that fact.

It must hurt your pride to know imbeciles have authority over you? People get the leaders they deserve.

"If no individual has the authority to steal from me (and for the mentally challenged that means take money/property from me against my will, and calling it a tax makes it no less theft) where do they magically conjure the authority from as a group when none of the individuals that make up the group have that authority?"

From the end of a gun. The gun isn't what evil. Government isn't what's evil. YOU ARE WHAT'S EVIL. You have no problem with a gun and want to buy goon squads to do exactly the same. You want power, but you aren't worthy to wield it, because you have nobody willing to pick up and gun and fight for what you want, your own country where you can be your own little Warlord. They'd rather just watch as all those "imbeciles" serve justice on you Anarchist.

"Stop trying to put words in my mouth it only makes you look like an idiot. I do not want a private corporate government we already have that."

Sure you do. You want to voluntarily pay what you think is necessary buying goons in a free market of collective violence, and you keep reinforcing that Anarchists can work together to defend themselves, so you will be cooperating and incorporating with other Anarchists to buy as much collective violence as you can, otherwise you'll have NO CHANCE against an invading army. An invading army will be acting justly when they round up all you wannabe free range Warlords who could only get power through catastrophic collapse.

"And you accuse me of wanting to initiate force LOL... Wow what a piece of work you are..."

That's right, you need to live in Anarcho-Lala-Land where nobody will challenge you or show up showing you WHY Governments exist. There can be no invading armies in Anarchy, because you know you can't put up any defense worth speaking of. Call it playing devils advocate, and the only place Anarchy works is where evil no longer exists, but it does, and I promise, it will come to destroy your Anarcho-Fantasy world because you aren't fit to run your own life let alone a country. Still, I'll let you run your own life and destroy yourself, just not mine or a Constitutional Republic.

"And just for the record I said Anarchy would not happen ANYTIME SOON short of a societal collapse but even then there is no telling what would replace the previous society."

It will NEVER happen short of a catastrophic collapse of society, because whether you like it or not, evil people exist, and you need to know what you can and CAN'T change in this world. In fact an Anarchist will become that which tempts people to do evil. It would be the easiest thing in the world to tempt people to line up and destroy you wannabe warlords who thought they were going to destroy my country buying violence and privilege in a free market of violence.

Even your own goons would eat you alive. You are what creates injustice, not that which opposes it.

"I never said I wanted a societal collapse that is your strawman lying argument."

Sure you did. You called yourself an Anarchist. This is politics and you admit there's no legitimate way for you to win short of destruction, so what you seek is an illegitimate path to wield power. You covet destruction and power, so when you get destroyed and discover yourself powerless against those who do it to you, justice is being served.

"Like a dog to his own vomit you prefer a monopoly on violence even though that violence is used to rob you imprison you and even murder you if you resist."

There's no monopoly of violence. You can do everything you want to do, just understand when you try, you will face justice. There are 50 states who wield power, and Federal Government that wields power. There are counties that wield power and towns that wield power.

But there are NO ANARCHISTS who wield power, and for good reason. They're liars and destroyers who covet power, yet are useless in both defending liberty, and to their own covetous fantasies.

"Anarchist believe in non-aggression and only using violence in self defense."

Nonsense. Anarchists are liars and frauds who do nothing but run people down calling them "retards, imbeciles, and sheep". Keep puking it out Anarchist. Justice will be served. Nobody is filled with more hate or the desire to wield power than an Anarchist. They just know that they need to hide behind something that's good and right, something that leads to keeping the peace, which is liberty and the golden rule, the foundation of justice, and in the end justice is served on you Anarchists because you're frauds and liars who just want to destroy and rule.

They need to replace the golden rule with the NAP, because the person who brought up the golden rule in the first place (/psst it wasn't Ron Paul) told you to pay your taxes Anarchist. So pay your taxes, or let justice be served. Nobody knows better than you that your ideas can't win, so either grab your gun and do something about it, or just shut up, because you're worthless to liberty, incapable of defending it and oblivious to what threatens it.

"The only place that non-aggression principle gets turned on its head is when the government are the bad people."

The whole world is filled with bad people, and they don't need government to serve injustice. You'll accomplish all the same injustice in your free market of collective violence just fine.

"Oh it will be changing sooner then you think and I don't have to do anything your government has seen to that."

No, you just want it to, just like those in government who want a total collapse, but it's not Anarchism that replaces it. It's totalitarianism and world government, ruling you in ways you can't even conceive of. You're getting used, and not for Anarchisms sake, but for the sake of everything you claim to oppose, and justice will be served.

There's a reason God knows how it ends, and YOU are why it ends the way it does. You covet power, and will be used by those who prey on the covetous horde. You will be destroyed and justice will be served. There IS a free market of violence and pain waiting for you Anarchist, and the harder you work, the faster you're going to end up there.

"LOL and you claim to be a libertarian... Sigh! So what happened to the non-aggression principle?"

Serving justice isn't about ruling you, but justice is imposed upon you. Serving justice isn't about aggression. Serving justice isn't about ruling people. The foundation for justice is liberty, so to serve justice is to defend peoples liberty with force. Serving justice is about meeting all of you little Anarchist Warlord Wannabes with force, so you can't get the catastrophic collapse you desire.

It'll be the easiest thing in the world. People understand you Anarchists just fine and will line up volunteering to serve justice on you Voluntarists.

No, what we HAVE is gangland government and

competing goon squads would be an improvement. If I am free, I ought to be free to decide what "protection" I wish to purchase, but the government goons command a monopoly, and abuse their position routinely.
My neighbors have NO RIGHT to task someone else with ruling me. I know they like to get together and tell each other they do, and I have enough sense to avoid direct conflict with the goons they hire, but I happen to know beyond any doubt that many of those goons run guns, drugs, and peddle children. I don't want to support that goon squad, I don't care what my neighbors think.

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

They don't care what you think either Anarchist.

"If I am free, I ought to be free to decide what "protection" I wish to purchase, but the government goons command a monopoly, and abuse their position routinely."

You're mistaking "being free" with being alone in the world, with being a sovereign ruler; with being Queen Fishy.

You CAN buy as much "protection" as you want Fish. Anarchists don't want to buy protection. They want to buy collective violence and to use it replacing government and debate with economic means.

Go buy as much security as you need. It still won't save you from justice Fish.

"My neighbors have NO RIGHT to task someone else with ruling me."

They have a right to want justice and to task somebody to serve justice. Isn't that what Anarchists need to pretend to have a right to as well? Is serving justice unjust? They have a right to want their liberty, and you have a right to leave. Your neighbors have a right to impose justice on you when you try and buy all that collective violence so you can use it to wield power.

"I don't care what my neighbors think."

They don't care what you think either Anarchist. Nobody should care what an Anarchist thinks or wants. They think they're surrounded by retards, imbeciles and sheep and want to rule them with goon squads in a free market of violence. Let justice be served.

"They think they're

"They think they're surrounded by retards, imbeciles and sheep..."

Where would I ever get that impression...?

You spend a LOT of time telling me what anarchists think and why, and what everyone else does or ought to think about anarchists... Please tell me where you get this insight into what "we" think because I have never, ever, once been invited to the anarchists club. I just run around living my life, did not know there were meetings I was supposed to attend, nor official policies to promote. Meanwhile, since I have been missing the official anarchist get togethers, I am saying what I want, eating wholesome food, drinking all the raw milk I please... being free. And being amused by you. You really are funny. For a while. I am bored with you now. Bye! (Funny anarchy kind of thing, when I tire of a conversation, I leave it.)

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.