5 votes

Rand > Ron

Hold a sec. Don't get your balls in an uproar.

*I revere everything about Ron Paul, and in ways that I doubt Rand can ever approach.*

What I mean by my subject heading is this:

When Ron first announced in '07 for the prez campaign, I was licking my chops. A libertarian would be on the national stage for such a campaign for the first time in at least decades, and the 18-month campaign would turn the media establishment and American culture on its head.

Issues like the Income Tax, War on Drugs, size, scope and role of government, etc. would FINALLY get an airing, and there'd be robust debate.

The liberal media would contort in fascinating and entertaining ways in response to a REPUBLICAN calling for an end to the Drug War and to a major scaling back in foreign intervention and military budgets.

The conservative media (such that it exists) would rally behind a TRUE champion of fiscal freedom.

The floodgates would open, hypocrisies revealed, phonies exposed, real debate and discussion commenced. It was to be CRAZY.

But, as we all know, thru two prez campaigns, Ron instead was overtly ignored. In the few instances he wasn't, he was ridiculed and marginalized. There would be no robust debate and discourse. Ron and his message were buried. It wasn't Ron's fault. The corruption and neglect was staggering and frustrating.

Fast forward to '13 and, for reasons I still can't completely wrap my head around, Rand is being treated differently by media, and this week's filibuster and aftermath has contained a greater volume of national, actual genuine debate and discussion on albeit the narrow issue of drones, and related civil liberties, then Ron was able to pull off over his two campaigns.

As a result of the filibuster, left media/politicians are attacking left media/politicians. Right media/politicians are attacking right media/politicians. It's great!

Of course Ron can take credit, perhaps even the lion's share. After all, Ron's '08 campaign is the reason Rand won his seat in '10. Ron *has* tweaked the culture, with no help from the media/political establishment, making the masses more receptive to Rand's message this week.

But my point is that Rand is sitting on a potential to stir the media/political establishment - which is how mass culture is changed - that Ron, for whatever reasons, did not possess.

This was confirmed in a big way this week, and the possibilities from here are endless.



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I did.. that's where he said "I wouldn't mind if they did it to

a robber in the act".

I don't care to hear your justifications on why what he said was okay to you because they're morally and Constitutionally bunk.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

what?

I'll assume I know what you were trying to say, and respond accordingly. If someone is "in the act" of committing a murder, what is the difference between using a rifle, or a drone to stop the murderer? Nothing. I'm starting to think you don't really know how drones are used. We are killing people who aren't armed, who are not in combat, and who aren't even aware that anyone is around. They are able to do this because drones fly so high, the enemy can't hear them, and they are deadly accurate. Most poeple think drones are just unmanned jets. They don't realize that we are breaking laws of war with our murdering of non-combatants. When Rand says that it is okay to use a drone on someone "in the act", all he is saying is that a drone is just like a rifle. It is a tool for war, or protection, and if we are in combat, there is no reason not to use a drone if it is effective. HOWEVER, we are using them abroad, on people who aren't engaged in combat, who aren't armed often times, and who pose no immediate threat to our troops. If we used a rifle to do what we are doing with drones, it would be no less than a war crime, killing non-combatants. People aren't even aware we are doing that, so they don't know we have a drone issue abroad. They just think we are using drones the same way we use Jets, in combat. Rand is opening the floodgate to that information getting out. However, he has never said it was okay to use drones on non-combatants, or in illegal wars. He has simply started the converstion by questioning our use of them here. You are just assuming he is okay with how we use them abroad, simply because he didn't start the debate there.

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

"I'll assume I know what you were trying to say, and respond

accordingly"

Instead of doing the stupid thing how about for a change ask.

"If someone is "in the act" of committing a murder, what is the difference between using a rifle, or a drone to stop the murderer? Nothing."

Wrong as usual.. Ever been shot at by a hellfire missle? The potential for damage and death are exponentially increased.

That was your second moronic mistake.. Here's another..

Do you condone giving hellfires to local police departments? If not then who will run them? The military? Do you understand why that was forbidden? Do you know why the Founding Fathers saw it as a threat to Liberty to have a military force patrolling our streets? Do you really want to live in a country that has 30,000 drones flying over, not knowing if you, your kids, your mother, father, best friend, wife, you or your neighbor is standing next to, is having a conversation with a "suspected" terrorist?

If you're able to dismiss those things as "nothing, you either have serious problems working things out to their natural logical conclusions or you're one of those government internet trolls working to steer things in other directions.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Well... I see that

I agree with everything you said here except the way you said it. You tend to be very rude which invites rude responses. Respect wins you a lot of points, and you seem to have a hard time giving it.

You do not have to give Rand a chance, but I will because I believe he is walking on eggshells with the neocons.

-Matthew Good

"You tend to be very rude which invites rude responses."

People that try to take my Liberty away whether intentional or not have far worse coming to them. A little online rudeness is inconsequential.

"Respect wins you a lot of points, and you seem to have a hard time giving it."

I have no time for your idea of civility no more than I have for your homogenized view of Liberty and how to attain it.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

So...

how do you expect to win hearts and minds??

-Matthew Good

Having to convert the supposed already converted

isn't in my future.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

I am not judging/comparing Ron v Rand...

...I am instead comparing the relative STAGE/PLATFORM that each enjoyed/enjoys.

There is simply no doubt that Rand's PLATFORM is more visible, fair or not.

Peanut butter and jelly...

Ham and cheese...

Steak and potatoes...

Ron and Rand.

Ron built the tireless irate minority through his role as inspirational leader and educator, Rand will lead that tireless irate minority to political influence through clever politicking. Comparing them is problematic because they are engaged in different tasks. Ron was better at inspiring and educating, Rand is a better politician. We need both.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

Substance and shinny

http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2990425

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

just wait...

till election/primary time when they will shove that asstard Rubio down our throat or perhaps tubby Christy, cheesehead whitey Ryan, or whomever else may have gotten the nod to run against Hillary. Palin?

I remember the years before the primary when Paul was Fox's go to man on the economy and what to do. Then during the election season, crickets, scorn, and laughter. Fuck them.

I agree

Asstard is going to be pushed by the establishment. What's great is that he sucks. If they give Rubio 10 to 1 with coverage, the 1 is all Rand needs. Rand is smart and he will rip asstard a new ahole. Sorry for the foul language.

Enonesoch

SteveMT's picture

Don't confuse popularity with strict adherence to an idea.

Popularity comes and goes. The ideas are what remains after all is said and done. The ideas and the record of consistently following those ideas will stand the test of time better than a bunch of people all jumping on a bandwagon. They can jump off just as quickly. This current popularity could all be a just a big setup. The ideas are what need to be grounded in bedrock.

Don't downvote!!

To recap the OP:

Ron was never able to get media support, while Rand has. The OP isn't saying Rand is truer or a more powerful speaker. They are simply saying Rand accomplished a great hurdle Ron was never able to leap, due to his reputation and incredible ability to lead.

Personally, I think Rand has consistently done a great job on MANY issues I hold dear, while failing on a few. Regardless of who is praising him, I am grateful for the media exposure. Remember folks, media is ALL ABOUT EXPOSURE and the masses hearing ideas repeated over and over. If the masses come to believe Rand is a more down-to-earth candidate than Hillary come 2016, we will have ourselves a winner. And even if as president, Rand pushes 3 out of 10 very very important issues, it will be a victory because right now we are losing on every single front.

The fight will never end, all we can ever do is fight for improvement.

agreed.

I do not see Rand as a lesser of two evils.. Although he is not Ron; he would be a great first step for mainstream voters to open their eyes to liberty... We have to change the general public's view and it would be a great start!

proverbs 20:15
There is gold, and an abundance of jewels;
But the lips of knowledge are a more precious thing.

I'm not going

to get into who represents what better, or who has done or will do more for the liberty movement. Ron Paul is legend and always will be. I really don't know how closely Rand's ideology is with his dad's. I do know that Rand plays his hand close to the vest and that worries some people. I'm not worried I'll take Rand over Obama, Hilliary, Rubio or anyone else the Dems or GOP might likely put up. What I do know is in a national televised debate, Rand would mop the floor a shiny glow with all those clowns. I can't wait to see it.

The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government ... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it-Andrew Jackson

While I understand where you're coming from -

Simply getting the job done, doesn't necessarily make it right. Rand may very well accomplish things his father couldn't, as in the presidency, but that had A LOT to do with MSM, CORRUPTION, and BLATANT ELECTORAL FRAUD throughout the primaries. Not to mention that the GOP's poster boy had already been cherry picked before the primaries, and most suspect since 2007 when he dropped out to McCain. Nothing at all to do with the person.

As much as I hate to down vote, it's a down vote from me as well. If the title was different, I would still have disagreed, but not down voted the thread.

Your title implies that one man is better than the other. While Rand may be able to bring more people in to the liberty movement, he's having A LOT of help from those that I mentioned above that detracted his father. Glen Beck alone - love him or hate him - is getting people to AT LEAST look at Rand.

As others have pointed out, your title sucks.

"for reasons I still can't

"for reasons I still can't completely wrap my head around, Rand is being treated differently by media"

How come nobody questions this? And when you do you are labeled a "hater"?

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".
--Voltaire

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

here are the reasons:

he doesn't criticize foreign policy and he doesn't talk about the Fed

“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.” — Albert Camus

Israel comes to mind

Foreign policy has a lot to do with it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have a hard time believing that Ron Paul would authorize a drone strike in the middle of times square. That's not in favor of, or against him - just different.

I wonder how many people

I wonder how many people downvoted this based on the title without even reading it?

Andrew Napolitano for President 2016!
http://andrewnapolitano.com/index

"Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping Graven images." - ironman77

As I stated many times

As I stated many times before.. It isn't about being a Ron Paul. It's about staying true to the message and walking the walk. Rand has his own conservative ideologies with some Libertarian views stuck in between.
Rand Paul is ok, but he is no Ron Paul.. I'm sorry. And what I mean by 'no Ron Paul' is that he doesn't have the same views as Ron, which I find closest to my own personal views. Regarding war and sanctions, Rand is a conservative.

Would I back a Rand Paul? I'd have to see how he votes in these coming years. If he continues to vote in favor of sanctions then I won't back him as president. If he goes more towards the libertarian/non-interventionist side I'd back him 100%

why do we need to compare and judge who's the greatest among

the patriots we have? None of us are perfect. All of us have different strengths. Some of us are more effective than others. And all of us appeal to different factions.

Stop trying to boil it down to find the BEST person. Accept the fight for liberty that people are able to give.

"Stop trying to boil it down to find the BEST person. Accept the

fight for liberty that people are able to give."

So to recap.. Take what's given to you and don't bother asking for something better.

Saddle up to the Koolaid fountain, it's orange instead of grape today!! lol no thanks.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

I don't judge who is greater.. I judge whether they are Patriots

or not. There is a difference.

The verdict is in.. Rand is not. This drone bullshit has sealed the deal. He had an opportunity not to do what his Father would have done but to do what is RIGHT which happens to be what his Father would have done.

Instead he gave credence to terrible affronts to Constitutional Liberty.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Easy to judge while comfortably sitting behind your computer

I call bull crap on you. IF you are looking for perfection you are setting yourself up for failure.

I have no patience for those of you who say "Rand didn't do enough." Rand did the single most wonderful thing for liberty that we have seen in a long time. It is a VICTORY! Celebrate it. We won one battle. We took one hill. And I know we have many more to take, but celebrate this because it gives the movement extra boost to take on the next hill. For those of you who say he didn't go far enough....what is wrong with you? Get over yourselves. What on earth have you done in ALL YOUR LIFE to match what Rand has done in that filibuster? He was educating masses of dumbed down people about the constitution using language that they can understand on the National Stage with TONS of people watching. He got TONS of free publicity and gave the republicans some hope and some direction. He brought them whether the knew it or not closer to liberty.

For those who say "yeah but now the bar is lowered" NO ITS NOT!!!!!! Damn it! Pay attention! Rand RAISED the bar in this country. Before he spoke, the masses at large would have excepted this type of tyranny from drones. Just because YOU know it's unconstitutional doesn't mean the others understand. I swear! Do you not see what has been happening? Rand cut them off at the knees. They can not do military strikes in america without people now understanding that its wrong and now the Joe and Jane Republican are emboldened to stand up.

Besides that, Rand is now a viable libertarian leaning leader for the presidency. It takes a long time to bring back people to liberty from their indoctrination. Rand is bringing them along gently but faster than anyone else has been able to do in like....I don't know...FOREVER.

You nay say-ers stop belly aching and celebrate this win! Take it, stoke up your battery and get back out their and fight for even better strides toward liberty.

What Alex Jones did in his way to bring attention to the gun debate, is what Rand Paul did in his own way to bring the issue of drones to the American public at large.

Neither of those two are perfect but both of those two have done remarkable things for liberty. Don't you dare complain if you arn't willing to go out there and make huge strides yourself.

Bullshit yourself but don't try and bullshit me.

It doesn't work.. Rand is an enemy.

And I suppose it's equally easy for you as well.... Pipe down Sally.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

An enemy you say?

Please explain because I haven't seen it. If it is the sanctions on Iran that has you heated up, just cool down. Rand is not the enemy and has shown that he is cut from the same cloth as his father. I will support the man as much as I have supported Ron because we do not have time for a perfect candidate. So if you want to bash Rand as the "enemy" then go ahead. You will only be doing a disservice to yourself.

-Matthew Good

"Please explain because I haven't seen it."

Because you're blind as all who are following Rand are. He told you what he was about during his fillibusta in plain english.

I personally can't wait for the first hellfire to rain down on times square or some place like it because it is coming.. It always does after talk like this.. They'll do it to bluff the people... Wait for it.. It may have already happened and they may choose to come clean once they feel it's time..

Again, just wait for it. People like you are cognitively disconnected to reality, you have no ability to understand the implications of what's being put forth, nor do you care to change your views.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

I love pretentious a**holes

So what makes you such an authority on what is going on in "reality"? What "ability" do you possess that people like me do not? Please tell me what he said during his filibuster that would make me as paranoid as you are. Personally, I can wait for any kind of attack on my fellow country men. It is one of the things I can wait most for. Someone like you on the other hand seems to salivate at the thought. That, in my opinion, is reprehensible.

I have changed my views many times and consider myself pretty open minded. That being said, I don't gobble up just any information, and I hold my opinion once the facts are in.

I think Rand is pretty great, and I cannot wait to see what he does in the future. I will also be waiting for your prediction to occur... wait.. no I won't.. I have better things to do with my time.

-Matthew Good