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TMOT - Rand Paul's Filibuster...And?

I am going to get hell for this one, lol. This is merely one perspective:

http://youtu.be/CwnSpiAnBOk



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I'm wondering why you brought this video from 3-2013

out now? Does TMOT still feel this way?

Rand is ONE person,....

ONE elected representative....

and so is Justin Amash....

That's TWO, out of 535, that perhaps support what we support more than 75% of the time(barring procedural/funding necessities & other minutia) that can be put under a microscope and blasted by a handful of Ron Paul absolutists who FORGET not only did Rand Paul eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner with Ron & Carol(mom & dad!!!) ... And ... Ron Paul said "you can't turn an aircraft carrier around on a dime".

Is this crap what we want to squabble about, or, might we....might we....start vetting candidates of UNDERSTANDING up for elective office all over the country; seeming that Rand's "stunt" generated and coalesced the DISGUST of the electorate!!!

Rand's stunt was a springboard for the movement at large, and McCain & Graham's old guard stupidity likewise affords us the opportunity to draw clear SEPARATION between the Republic we want, versus business as usual.

So, we can WASTE our time saying "why I don't trust Rand", or, keep working at throwing off tyranny....to each his own....

Rand Paul is not...

quite the ideological straight shooter that Ron is, and I have no problem with people pointing that out. That's part of having an honest debate about the character of our representatives. But if citizens want to hold the line against domestic enemies of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, we must join together and support possible presidential candidates like Rand, whose actions reflect the position of millions of citizens who are standing up for their unalienable rights.

http://www.dailypaul.com/277342 (Rand Paul: One person can make a difference)
http://www.StandUpForYourRights.me/?p=1264 (Fast and Furious hearing)

If the reason why tmot will

If the reason why tmot will not support Rand is because Rand did'nt stand by his father when he actually did then why is he backing the liberty movement leech Robby Wells for President 2016 who was never for Ron Paul ?

You want Rand to be a Ron Paul clone?

Then expect the next election results to be the same as the last two. By now it should be clear this battle can only be won from the inside. Rand has my support 100%.

You are missing the point.

"expect the next election results to be the same as the last two."

Ron is speaking across this nation. But we must also do the work. It is local and state, and filling those positions with liberty people, and also changing the hearts and minds of everyone around us, that will yield results.

I am NOT saying don't support Rand. What I am saying is, be very careful about 'what' you support.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

Does anyone make a connection about the timing

of the winding down of Ron Paul's active campaigning and Rand's sorry endorsement of Romney? Didn't those things happen AFTER Ron's breakfast with Dick and Ben? Is it plausible that we don't really know what Chaney and Bernanke told Ron Paul to his face that day?

All I know is that, to me at least, Rand looked like he had the flu when he appeared on Hannity. I applauded his intestinal fortitude, because if I had to do what Rand did, I'd have puked my guts out on national tv. To me, Rand looked like he was holding it in, just like he held in his pee the other day.

Not saying I know... just saying that's the way things looked to me after that breakfast with Dick and Ben.

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox

robot999's picture

Nonna

I do agree with you on this point. i think that Ron was threatened. I was thrilled to see the Hoards of people coming to Ron's Rallies. It was a thing of beauty. Then, suddenly - right after the Breakfast - Ron cancelled the rest of his Rallies, and pretty much dropped out.

I will add that I Don't Know what really happened, and I may never know. But I REFUSE to spread rumors (like the poster below) - with so called "first hand knowledge". I was in Tampa - in the convention, I fought for the Grassroots, and I call it like i see it, but i do not know for sure what really happened.

"Government is the entertainment division of the military-industrial complex". - Frank Zappa

The timing was more than alarming.

Nonna, I have first hand knowledge of what transpred prior to primaries and Tampa. I know that there were stealth in opposition to us, and also that Rand urged delegates to back romney. I was furious GRRRRRRRR.

Here is what I do not know: Did Ron understand how corrupt the process was/is, and provided advisement prior to primaries being over [I am very doubtful]? Or did Rand mean what he said long ago that he was a Republican who did not share all of his fathers beliefs?

It was/is what it was/is.

If Rand wants my support, he had better kick into extremely high gear.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

I have felt that kind of fury, ((((PAF)))), and I hate it when

I feel like that, because it gets so much in my way that I can't think clearly enough to "see the forest for the trees". And it doesn't go away any time soon, until I finally decide to make an all out, conscious, effort to get rid of it just so I can think and see straight again. That's when I get a deep insight into what was/is really going on around me. Without that kind of anger blocking my mind, I can then see into the heart of the matter that pissed me off so bad in the first place.

If anyone understands how corrupt the process is, it is Ron Paul. Lord knows he was on the receiving end of it all of his political life. I have no doubt his son knows how far the tenticles of the octopus go, just from being raised in the Paul family and seeing the effects of it on his father, firsthand, for all those years. It is an ugly game and only those with the greatest intestinal fortitude survive it.

Rand is not his father but, I have no doubt that he learned how the game is played from his father (who refused to play it, but figured out how to ultimately win it). Ron planted the seeds. Rand is tending that garden carefully (which means he has to trap a few varmits every now and then).

Disgraceful loyalty oaths followed those events. Either you played this game along with the neocons, or your were thrown out with the door slammed hard in your face and condemned to political obscurity. Some of our people were determined to stay and play the game to ultimately win. By that time it was pretty clear what was going on and what had to be done to beat those bastards at their own game. It is because of people like that, who stayed and played, despite the ongoing scathing criticism from this community and others, that we continue to win and are now winning big time.

We haven't won the game yet but, we are winning precisely because of the actions, distasteful as they are, Rand and others, like the Granger, took. Watch out for the divide and conquer trap, though. It is still going in full force. To paraphrase something fishyculture wrote, we have to stop "eating our own".

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox

((( Nonna )))

It is thoughtful and well written posts like yours that helps me to see things. I know all of what you have said, but I do need a reminder every now and then.

There is still time, and I pray that things will work out. If not, it will at least be another lesson for me, and everybody who will be affected.

((( Granger ))) and I agree to disagree to agree, etc. She is doing the right thing for her demographic, just I am doing the right thing for mine. Granger has a heart, tough and kind, that is what more people should strive to have :-)

Thank you for taking the time to offer more words of wisdom :-)

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

robot999's picture

you KNOW huh?

I call BS. If your "knowledge" is true, then why didn't Rand ask me (delegation from CO) to back Romney when I sat next to him on the flight to Tampa. We talked for 45 minutes, and NOT ONCE did he ask me to Support Romney. Were you there? Did Rand tell you directly?

"Government is the entertainment division of the military-industrial complex". - Frank Zappa

I do not BS.

Remember this: I have learned a lot this past year, more than I ever could have imagined. As I have by accident flushed some out who were hidden in the woodwork, the next time will be easier for me to do.

And that ALSO goes for 'so-called' Congressional District Coordinators ((( CD3 ))) GRRRRRR!

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

Seriously? Okay, give!

What did you and Rand talk about? What was the mood? Robot999, you can't make a comment like that and not drive me nuts. I gotta know or it will bother me for days!!!!

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox

TMOT is the man!

and I agree with him.

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

When people stop voting GOP or DEM

then and only then will things change. I applaud Rand, but I will not vote for either party, only vote third party. 99% of the people vote for the establishment, if 10-20% voted third party they would get the message immediately.

Unlikely to happen,

since most people simply vote party line. It's not the voting GOP or DEM, it's the failure to vet that's stopping change.

As long as liberty seeking individuals refuse to get involved in 1 of the 2 parties; how can we ever make change? As unfortunate as that is, it is the reality.

Involvement can at least be used to front liberty based legislation, and candidates, until such time as the duopoly becomes weaker.

I myself changed registration to the R party and became a PC and SC. I could have just remained stubborn, but what would it really accomplish?

I wonder

how much we could clean up politics by outlawing party affiliation?

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

I don't

I don't think we are ever going to find out until we get enough libertarian thinking representatives to push the idea of dissolving this monopoly the Dems and GOP have forced on everyone.

The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government ... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it-Andrew Jackson

Good points TMOT

I to feel Rand did not stick up for his dad like he should have. But I have not yet written Rand off from my vote yet. A lot can happen between now and then.

TMOT

TMOT I don't think speaking in absolutes on whether you would support someone this early in the 2016 election cycle is productive to the cause. I could understand if you said, right now Rand hasn't convinced me to support him. But to cast him aside right now I think is a mistake. If the election boiled down to Hillary Vs Rand I would hope that you would support Rand. You know Rand did endorse his father, and did campaign for him. Rand didn't endorse Romney till he knew that Ron was not going to be the GOP nominee. Rands endorsement of Romney was not about who should be the GOP nominee, He was saying he preferred Romney over Obama.

Here is the link of Rand endorsing his Dad, happens in the last few seconds of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LXVHDhZVZQ

The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government ... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it-Andrew Jackson

And here is Rand endorsing Romney

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fhGVm...

This was in June. Do you know when your clip originally aired?

I'm with TMOT. Rand has a chance to win my support, but he is going to have to "go big or go home" for my vote. He has a LOT of lost ground to recover.

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

You know

you know I'm not sure when he originally endorsed his dad, it was fairly early in the cycle. I remember he did endorse Romney like a few days before the GOP national convention (which pissed me off) but the writing was on the wall, Ron had even put out some message about how he didn't think he would be winning the nomination. However I don't think It would have hurt Rands position at all to wait till the convention was over to endorse Romney. I've forgiven that poor judgement though it still does sting a bit.

The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government ... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it-Andrew Jackson

fishyculture

Your entire post is 100% correct and I full-heartedly agree..I could have written that myself :-)

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

We seem to be sharing a brain this morning.

Your thread is awesome.

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

Two heads are better than one.

Thank you, and thanks for commenting. Today is going to be another good day :-)

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

A Libertarian sees government

as defender of individual liberties. In reality, GOP & DEM only try to "improve" things by adding more regulations. Rand Paul (along with fiscal conservatives there) does not have voting power to repeal a single regulation. Likewise, fiscal conservative republicans in New York City or other cities across USA do not have voting majority.

Therefore, any criticism of Rand is unwarranted. In fact, Rand does not kiss our (DP folks) arse any longer. He does not count on our support that would require him to adjust his viwes or tactics. Rand is spreading his ideas the way he sees fit, as a free man.

P.S. We give too much credit to government and forget about majority of Americans who do not agree with Libertarian ideas. Were Ron Paul elected president in 2012, the current Congress would not pass any of his reforms. Ron would be voted out in 2016 as ineffective. He does not have skin color to rally folks solely based on that. Today, Americans are more pre-occupied with "group rights" - 2016 will be about women vs Hispanics; 2020 - about married gays vs non-married ones.

Rand did

endorse Ron and even campaigned with him. Why do people not remember that? He endorsed Willard long after that.

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” – Dresden James

The filibuster woke people up

However, I don't think it served a great purpose.

“Does the president have the authority to use a weaponized drone to kill an American not engaged in combat on U.S. soil?” Holder’s letter reads. “The answer to that is no.”

The US government has the opportunity to abuse the definition of "engaged in combat." - Take the discussion over the definition of imminent for example.

We're not any safer now than we would be if the answer had been yes instead of no.

The government does what it wants, when it wants.

I agree with TMOT

Rand has 'kind of sort of' stood on the side of Liberty, but has voted against Liberty more than he has stood for it. Yes, his filibuster is applauding, and hope is something to with for, but as Thomas DiLorenzo puts it so bluntly in this blog, 'the Constitution is dead' to the usurping Corporatist/Fascists. http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/133532.html