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It would be nice

It would be nice if political experience translated neatly into superior Executive performance.

But, it doesn't seem to work that way, which is why Lincoln's statue occupies a marble temple on the Mall in Washington, while his far more experienced rival William Seward has a little seat on a pedestal in New York City.

Experience is not the sole quality of good leadership. It is only a factor that coexists with character. Its not just what you have done, but the manner by which you have done it and what you have learned doing it. President Nixon was very experienced politician however, his lack of character led to a doomed Presidency.

If experience is so useful, then second-term presidencies should be more successful than first-term. But, I think history shows us many examples to the contrary.

-----rand rand rand rand-----

Lincoln is worshiped like all war presidents. It's a sick joke. Washington, Jackson, Lincoln, Roosevelt, Wilson, and FDR are all the biggest war mongers and national 'heroes'. So when the last fifty years on forward is far enough back in history Johnson, Bushes, and Obama will be immortalized.

We have different understandings of how POTUS works. Since 1898, Teddy Roosevelt, the wealthy families have completely controlled the president and Secretary of State. So that is a major reason why I think Rand just doesn't get it. It is a myth that anyone can become POTUS. As Carroll Quigley wrote, the two-party system was designed so the clueless Americans could, "vote the rascals out". That is what is really behind my 'experience' comments. These guys have all the money in the world and experience. Rand can't compete.

I happen to disagree with you that Rand has some great character as well. I see nothing redeeming about him or his character. He is a good speaker. But I hate politicians. Except Ron, who was hardly a politician.

If Rand was a business executive I would think a bit different too. But going from being an eye doctor to president of a 3 trillion dollar war machine is laughable to me. If he were Obama, at least he would have a puppet master. I think Rand is naive.

But as I keep saying, it is not about the experience to me. I do not want to pay to murder folks. It is immoral to me - whether individually or collectively. So I love Ron. Rand's voting record on foreign policy is a disaster in my opinion. So I would never vote for him anyway, so the point is mute.

I think you would love that history class I linked. Murray goes into politics and their relation to economics, religion and industry. It is fabulous. Not that you don't know a ton already but Murray is one of a kind. History from an Austrian's view is invaluable.

I hope Rand's voting improves. But its like anything, once you compromised your principles a few times there little to stop you from continuing. So I will work towards liberty outside the political means.

I think its good to have civil conversations about this, so thanks.

Think of it this way - when

Think of it this way - when we vote for president in another 4 years - Rand will have 4 more years senatorial experience.


Qualifications for president are enumerated in the constitution.

Rand as defined by the constitution, IS qualified to be president.

Former political 'experience' of the kind McCain and Dole had, to me are disqualifiers.

Only an outsider, politically unqualified by your definition, could ever break the power of the establishment.

You are one daffy duck...lol

Did my comment have anything to do with the Constitution?

Go back and read it...I'll wait. What is the big obsession with the presidency?!?! Libertarians by definition don't want to run other people's lives. So this obsession confuses and angers me. But, of course, Rand is not a libertarian so that explains it. But to be called a shill, troll, Rand hater, Rand Hatter(sic), or a divider on a libertarian forum, DP, is just plain weird. Ron spent 10 years studying Austrian Economics before he even ran for Representative. And he did not run for President until 15 years after that. He is a prolific reader. And he never wanted to run people's lives. Rand knows very little. He is very smart and a quick study. But no way in hell he is ready to be commander in chief of the World's biggest military in History.

The others you refer to are puppets. Rand, according to ya'', is not. So you think this little ophthalmologist from Kentucky after two years is ready, solo, to go run the world's largest employer?

Ron is.

obsession with the presidency

Why would you think that Rand and we who support him are wanting to run other's lives? Ron Paul said the GOP has lost it's way, and many of us see that, and understand that trying to get those who are legally addicted to systems that operate on a Keynesian economic modle.. and why we joined the GOP and took seats, and run for offices, to liberate us from unconstitutional laws, not to run other people's lives.

Ron Paul was a Libertarian for all of 6 months. I was a libertarian for 17 years, and went indy after I witness the 92 stolen election and joined with Nader to open ballots and debates for third parties, and I was really getting upset that as hard as we worked in the LP, we were always given some Republicans who only became a Libertarian to run for president because for some reason, the LP doesn't promote from within, with the exception of a few authors.. other than that.. I think the LP and Americans Indy/ Constitution Parties are made by design to empower the GOP group in control.. Neos..

The namecalling stuff is ugly and reflects on the person who uses it.

Rand is brilliant, was sign waving for Ron before many of us knew who Ron was.. he has grown up in politics and how he saw the opportunity to pitch a fillabuster.. no one had to come to Rand and say, now here's the plan... Maybe Benton did.. but I doubt it, although he's smart too. Those who support Ron Paul and are not in the GOP have issues with Rand because he's GOP. I wish them much success getting someone to represent them better than Rand.

As a republican, gearing up for a presidential election when you have a candidate, someone that has never run, but their Dad did, and they know people, and this is a great time to be a republican because we are the future, and we are standing with Rand.. inside the GOP, in seats and offices to assure Rand, he is not solo, but we are here to back him, just like we backed his Dad, who many of us were not in office or seats.. we were waving signs. Nothing wrong with waving signs, it's just better to help a president when you have other offices filled with happy supporters, eh? (((((((dducky))))))

✿✿I just see the position of POTUS as irrelevant.✿✿

Everybody is just so obsessed with it. Not just libertarians but the entire gamut. I think the reason is that the media (read: PTB) is pushing it. They know we feel more and more helpless as a group and use the presidency to quell our frustration.

When Carroll Quigley tells us that the two-party system is designed so we can 'vote the rascals out', I believe him. I intuitively it my whole life that's why I never voted, except for Ron (thrice). I knew he was not part of the system. Rand, I don't know.

Deibold. Bankers. Money. Rove. Just some other lil' problems.

Anyway, I guess I throw out my two cents in these threads because I fell like Rand is hijacking our movement. He is not even for peace. He voted for the Iran sanctions twice and for war appropriations (No, not final bill but that's irrelevant. He was okay with the spending, just not the detention amendment along with 14 other Senators). He is not my man and I wished he was not the liberty movement's man. I absolutely, more than anything else, do not want to pay to kill brown people, nor, next up, white people.

I think what you are doing in the GOP is great though. I think there are multiple ways to fight though. You seem like you are doing what you like and are good at. I am still trying to wade around and find my niche. I have got some ideas I am throwing around. I ain't no politician tho. I think you can tell I am not very tactful or well spoken. So, Isa goin' find me niche.

Have a lovely day, (((((Granger)))))

I hope you find this second page (((((dducky))))))

I did not want to join the GOP. I just knew that Ron Paul was not going to leave the GOP and if I wanted to really support Ron Paul, I needed to join the GOP.. so I have, and have advanced very quickly, as I think anyone who has had any experience with committees would.

On the convention floor are many groups who are part of the GOP, and we are part of it. What is happening now is the Tea Party.. the group who liked everything about Ron Paul BUT his foreign policy, really like Rand.. and Rand is definately of principle and definately shaking up the GOP.. in CA, the tea party wore yellow ribbons and were complaining about what we were complainging about.. so they did nothing and now they wear yellow ribbons and write fare thee well GOP letters. This is why someone like me is able to climb so quickly. I guess I have a thicker skin and don't take it personally.

Rand's stands are based on the constitution, and he is doing an excellent job EXTRACTING us from the MIC with his fillibuster and laws, for example industrail hemp..

It's not like Rand, or me, or any liberty candidate made the GOP what it is.. we are in there to change the GOP and that is what we are doing. We are really well aware of how rotton some are.

It's not just Rand.. it's people like me who are backing Rand in the GOP.. this is a good fight.. I just hate to see you on the side of Rove (who said he gave Rand $2.9 million)


I just got your package. Thanks! Ha! Great photo. You look really amused and Karl: bemused. He's like, "What did she just say?". And you are like, "Hah, smile Karl!". You are right he's white and doughy. You look fabulous.

Thanks for all the other goodies, they'll come in use.

So those tea partiers are not happy with Rand yet? WTH? They are never satisfied. I'll bet they aren't too happy with your proposal.

Keep us informed about your weed committee progress.

Lemon chicken tonight slow roasted whole on the grill, convection style. I stuff 'em with lemons and onion wedges, salt and pepper, and scatter finger potatoes around roasting pan. Steamed broccoli too.

Blowback forthcoming.

Easter is a long ways away! You are juicing until then? You are tough as nails! Have you lost lots of weight? I won't mention the 'P' word.

No he

No he is a junior senator and the only required experience to being the president or should be is common sense, a clear understanding of the Constitution and a vision for the country that doesn't infringe on that document.

The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government ... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it-Andrew Jackson