16 votes

Believing in Creation, and taking a literal position on the Bible is the beginning of persecution, again!

I would say, Dr. Benjamin Carson did indeed start something...timely!

Now, with the recent release of The Bible series on The History Channel; Bill O'Reilly is leading the mocking charge from the right! Oh great; here we go!

Here's MY position/observations at present...Those believers, who were not alarmed when...
1) public opinion was being aroused to be leary or cautious of "religious fundamentalists" after 9/11...
2) they dared not dig a little deeper into the arrest and imprisonment of creationist Kent Hovind, who was simply labeled a tax cheat, irrespective of the known facts that he diligently did his homework regarding how our United States Constitution, and the IRS tax code should/would impact his faithful execution of his creation ministry...
3) former Presidential candidate and former Southern Baptist Pastor Mike Huckabee DENIED the literal six day creation account of the Bible, on a national stage, when Wolf Blitzer asked him directly and specifically if he believed; saying "I don't know, I wasn't there"(denying God & Christ's own eyewitness accounts!)....those believers...they need to WAKE UP NOW...and petition God for discernment!

We are being marginalized, criticized, pressured, and mocked openly now(which often happens, but, Bill O'Reilly has decided he will take it mainstream on the right). Right before darkness truly befalls this nation, just as it has in every other world power THREATENED with so much evidence of hypocrisy, LOVE of MONEY, and the church/state marriage which is a compromise FOR silence of dissent; our light also is about to be put out!

See, what really prompted me to write this is, that Pastor, Dr. Jeffress from First Baptist Church of Dallas was not only on O'Reilly's show last week( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvMLcBGSvo0 )to be a punching bag for Bible-deniers but, for some reason he decided to join the growing faction of celebrity pastors who won't defend a young Earth position( listen here:
The question is, will we remain silent?
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=3813832330&tar... )

Every last celebrity conservative Christian in America has been naming and claiming 2 Chronicles 7:14 for the past dozen years or so...but LOOK at what we've ended up with for political leadership! Does that mean God is NOT listening, no; I think we are still giving him lip service!(EXAMPLE: the May Day 2010 event at the Lincoln Memorial - listen to Pastor Ralph Ovadahl expose this fraud for what it was, beginning at the 32:00 of this broadcast - http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=57102226413 )

Fellow believers, those whose eyes find these words; let me forewarn you...God's enemies, Satan's counterfeits, the truly un-regenerated souls today who are professing a salvation they actually DO NOT possess; they look and speak more like you and I everyday...

Learn to discern; ask for strength, boldness, and courage in these days where compromise reigns and sin abounds...they want to shut us up...I am just one believer who has been quite alarmed since 9/11; I have been watching and pleading and standing tall in the face of so much deceit and sissy-britches mega-church ecumenism that has become intolerant of God's PLAIN truths that any elementary school child can understand(and was taught normally in public conversations, Sunday School, not mocked in our public schools up until about one generation ago!)

My exhortation to ALL, is to get discernment by using your senses and Holy Spirit led life experience to simply distrust, and VOICE that distrust of both political and clergy "leadership", those in this culture who get the MOST media facetime because they compromise the fundamentals of the faith ONCE delivered to the saints, those in society who occupy places of great influence, who clearly are nothing like the martyrs of our faith recorded in history; those who clearly are not sacrificing creature comforts derived from a bankrupted and immoral debt-based monetary system on the brink of collapse!

The latter half of Hebrews 5:14 suggests this is why we love strong teaching "... those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil." ... But beyond this ... Do as Romans 16:17-18 instruct, let's have a Matthew 23 exposure of the Christian charlatans who join the Fox News Channel and K-street pro-family groups in Washington that serve money; now casting DOUBT upon the truth of God's Word, especially as it relates to His account of the two great cataclysmic events we know as The Creation and The Flood of Noah's day!

Those verses of Romans 16 instruct; "17) Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18) For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple."

They sought to ensnare the simple, they prey upon our children in public schools..."instructing them in the way they should go, so that when they are old,"; they want this social order to DENY a Creator higher than Caesar...it's all "yea hath God said?"...and "ye shall be as gods"...same old trick from the garden.

I have ALWAYS said, I am NOT in favor of a Christian theocratic state; I have personally come out of that...but...the obvious mockery of the Godly, and their core beliefs as they TRUST in God's Word with respect to moral absolutes, natural laws, and the creation and the flood; this we MUST no longer remain silent about, nor hide from the public and start re-writing Christian apologetics while we are steamrolled by Zionist Sadducees, Scribes, and Pharisees!

C'mon folks; the PTB 501c3'd the churches because the KNEW their most ardent criticisms would originate and grow from within them!
Atheists and agnostics can AGREE with Bible-thumpers on this one point, can't they?

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Age of the Earth (FULL)

Giving scientific evidence to prove a literal six-day creation, Dr. Kent Hovind refutes evolution’s proposition that the earth has evolved over billions of years. The first of seven in the seminar series, TheAge of the Earth, uncovers the follies of the Big Bang theory as well as exposing the religious beliefs of evolution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szBTl3S24MY

Thanks enjoyed watching.

Thanks enjoyed watching.

Forest or trees?

Since I'm a born again Christian here (let the flames begin!) I'll just say that I think you're obsessing a bit about creation (literal six days vs the process of creation), and kind of missing the big picture. Like the one issue voter who votes solely on abortion, but then misses the 99 other issues that are festering, maybe you can take step back and realize you're not going to be able to shout or preach the Gospel into anyone's heart. Don't focus on changing anyone, love your neighbor as yourself and follow the golden rule and you'll make more of an impact on the world by how you live than by everything you say.

That being said, if we suppose that God exists then it seems to follow that He could accomplish creation in six days. But whether it was six days or 600 million years, does that really change the fact that we should be walking the walk rather than getting upset over the timeline? Once I get my own house in order then I'll start obsessing about telling others what to do and believe. I just don't want the state to interfere in my faith or sharing my faith with others, including my children. I also realize they will, since that same Bible said people would be persecuted because of faith in Jesus, so it goes with the territory. Live your faith, speak kindly to those around you, love them, practice the golden rule, and then let the insults bounce off you because everyone can plainly see the lies as they are hurled at you.


> Once I get my own house in order
> then I'll start obsessing about
> telling others what to do and believe.

We have this to which we can look forward? Lovely.

That made me laugh

Actually no, you don't have much to worry about. Like I said, when I get my house in order, THEN I'll worry about telling others what to do. I can say with a great degree of confidence that the first condition will never be realized, so you can sleep well at night knowing the second part of my statement will never materialize.

Cyril's picture

Today's thieves and frauds, & tomorrow's mass murderers

Not all atheists are socialists.

But all socialists are the most virulent, hateful, and despicable atheists.

Those aren't content with simply ignoring God, but also want to suppress the idea about him.

That's because they want to play God, with mankind as their clay.

Socialists hate the idea of anyone or anything above them that would suggest them hints for a higher sense of morality than their limited and fraudulent intellect.

They have killed more humans in the 20th century alone than wars, religious or not, did, in all the previous centuries - COMBINED.

Socialists : today's thieves and frauds, and tomorrow's mass murderers -

- in the name of the state that they dream to run, sitting at its top.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Cyril usually I agree and

Cyril usually I agree and appreciate your posts but this last one... not much of sanity there

The OP was banned. The thread

The OP was banned. The thread generated flame war. It should be locked.

"The United States can pay any debt it has because we can always print money to do that." — Alan Greenspan

Well if you're going to be a

Well if you're going to be a fundamentalist are you also out there stoning your unruly children?

Sorry, I think you have a right to believe whatever you want. Tom Cruise has a right to believe in Xenu too, but I also have every right to mock the ridiculous.

I'm agnostic, but at least I can understand the metaphorical interpretation of the bible. It tells me people aren't just blindly following a religion and turning off their own minds and not thinking. They are at least trying to reconcile reality with their beliefs. However, the literal interpretation is just ridiculous. If you believe that, I instantly know you are not capable of rational thought and are the type of person who could be led to believe absolutely anything.

"In reality, the Constitution itself is incapable of achieving what we would like in limiting government power, no matter how well written."

~ Ron Paul, End the Fed

I keep trying

But they hate the smell of weed. *ba da boom!*

You Don't Know

You say you are agnostic .. meaning you are clueless of how everything happened but for some reason you say the literal interpretation is ridiculous .. Do some more research, the earth can not be millions of years old

Why can't it be that old? And

Why can't it be that old? And if you say the bible says it's not so it can't be... then go f yourself

Velikovsky and Creationism

FYI, I searched Google for my subject line and found this link:


I have not read Velikovsky's Worlds in Collision, but I understand he surveyed many ancient mythologies, not just the Old Testament. Mythologist David Talbot of the Electric Universe group did the same. He found that those ancient stories recorded across the planet were strikingly similar. The theory for the similarities: those ancient scribes were all recording the same celestial events in their common sky.


Not all Christians

believe in a literal six days. Some, like myself, are "old earth" creationists who believe in a more poetic interpretation on Genesis 1, where "day" more closely means "age".

I don't think you should assume that only the Young Earth position is the correct one.

The Bible

uses "day" 100's of times and every freakin time it means one literal day .. but for some reason during the creation it means different .. how do you reconcile that, ohh so you can fit in with the Atheist scientists

Read Psalm 90:10...

...and tell me that "yom", the Hebrew word for "day", only means one literal day "every freakin time".

It's not that I rush to "fit in" the atheist scientists... I am just looking at what makes the most sense.

You can't expect to have

You can't expect to have freedom of religion if you think everyone should adopt your beliefs. We all cherish our beliefs as much as the next person & nobody can be forced to believe something they don't believe. I will fight to my death for you to worship as you chose. I am an Atheist. Would you fight for me to have the same right ??

No. A person can only fight

No. A person can only fight for their own rights.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

Phxarcher87's picture

The State has...

Removed ever ounce of responsibility in life. Which would also cause people to believe they have no accountability to the one that created them, the alpha and omega. Rejoices in that one day the judge of judges and the lord of lords will rectify all.

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" - Mark Twain

ah you americans and your

ah you americans and your silly bible..

get over it already

Christians are world wide! I

Christians are world wide! I would never 'get over' the word of God. That would be foolish. The creator made you in his image, you aren't some super monkey by random chance, the Lord loves you and wants you to repent and know him. God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. You will give an account for your blasphemy on judgment day

Oh no fear! FEAR! FEEAAAR!!

Oh no fear! FEAR! FEEAAAR!! GOOODDD!!! FEEEEEEAAAAR!!!... fuck you fear..

.... I don't fear god. He does not exist. And.. even if he would exist it would be acceptant of my dismissal of it. I cannot imagine an omnipotent and omniscient being THAT petty to let me burn eternal just because I need proof, and a little bit more "proof" then an incoherent book written by 50 different crazy societal outcasts

two points

66 books by 40 different authors on three different continents with the overall same message....Jesus Christ.. The authors covered all aspects of society: A military general, Kings , fisherman and prophets and scholars... This shows the supernatural aspect of the scripture...

As far as your need for proof , God has given that to us in creation..all around us:

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,g in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. '
Romans 1:18-20

The existence of us does not

The existence of us does not prove the existence him/it. There is a major assumption made in your post. As I said, truth is subjective. Fact is another thing and there are no facts that point towards the judeo-christian god existing

I get that:

So does He. He even said, through the Apostle Paul, that it is His kindness that leads to repentance.

The question I have for you is: Are you willing to follow truth where ever it takes you, even if you don't like the implications?, Many have, including the man quoted in my tagline, and have discovered, in spite of their 'kicking and screaming all the way' that God exists, he loves us, and he is just.



www.christianpost.com/news/lee-strobel-weighs-in-on-how-athe... 1



"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

TL;DR BTW: follow the truth?


BTW: follow the truth? whose truth? truth is subjective. How can I take your interpretation of truth as truth? I cannot.. I can only take what I see as truth as truth. And nothing in the bible or the indoctrination of organized religion has made me see any kind of truth in christianity. From my perspective it is a method of control and a method of increased divisiveness for all people.

But whatever... I'm Agnostic until proven otherwise and no, none of the links provided provided anything resembling truth to me.

Phxarcher87's picture

Where are you from?


"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" - Mark Twain

this is important why?

this is important why?

You kind of opened the door to that question

Your comment about Americans probably makes folks what wonderfully enlightened land you come from, don't you think? You kind of brought the specter of nationalism into this a bit by joining the conversation with that opening statement. It's pretty natural to wonder where you're from since you seem to be looking down on those "Americans and their silly Bibles".

Mockery and Criticism is not persecution or bigotry

Creationism is mocked because it is silly, not because of who believes it. But, that is not persecution, it isn't even bigotry. If you don't want to be mocked, don't make your theories public. But, as soon as a book is written or a video is made and there is public access you must accept the response, there isn't another choice.

Every time I called Romney a moron and a Neocon - was I "persecuting" him? Of course not. That is ridiculous.

Just because less and less people are holding on to the Genesis fairy tales, it only means just that, less people believe it. That doesn't mean that those who are creationists are being injured in some way. Even Catholics were instructed by the Pope that the evidence was so overwhelming for evolution that Genesis should be interpreted as a allegory.

You have every right to believe in Genesis, but you don't have a right to prevent free speech of others.

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain