14 votes

“People ask me, ‘How can you...not be friggin’ mad at God?' "

Where do you go when you want to tell someone something, or maybe you just want someone else to know? Alot of times the Daily Paul is one of those places for me. My sister's husband, a Pastor, is dying and there was a write-up in the Kansas City Star on Saturday. So I have attached the article below. There are also some pics and a video at the site.

My brother-in-law has an 11 year old daugher. He is the love of my sister's life. Their 2 sons are in college. Pharma couldn't do a thing for him, but he is Walking with God. Even when facing death one can experience peace and liberty!

God’s Next Assignment for Joey Butler: dying

Despite an operation that took his left kidney, numerous treatments and trips to the University of Kansas Cancer Center and to MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, nothing worked. He has decided there will be no more treatments.

“It’s been a raging hand-to-hand combat internally with discouragement. Because you know your body is not the same. It can’t do things that you used to do...Look, I could have never orchestrated these last 14 months more perfectly with the amount of people I’ve been able to talk to,” he says. “People ask me, ‘How can you go through this heavy trial and not be friggin’ mad at God? Or scared out of your mind?’ ”

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2013/03/09/4111194/gods-next-assig...


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Probably Not

"I would be very surprized if you told me that you would go to a LF speach unchaperoned or alone. But would you go if you were invited by a friend just to see for yourself?"

He believes Jacob killed all of his black children and kept all of the light children and that is how the white race came into being. That is a lie and I do not see how someone who says that can stand for Liberty. He is lying to his people. He is holding them in bondage to lies. To me going to see LF would be like going to a KKK rally. I would not go to either. I see both groups as having leader who want to divide Americans rather than bring them together to love one another.

One can love a god, but the question is what god?

The Apostle Paul said these words:

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there besome that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Those are very hard words to accept, but they are God's Word recorded in the Bible. Who am I to reason differently?

I am not wanting to get into another LF conversation. I have to tell you though that I was completely shocked by your post on him. It grieved me and I tried to make you see like I see and you tried to make me see like you see. The DP is my first experience with online forums, and only, and I have learned that you really cannot know where people are coming from because there are too many unknowns past the words typed. And it is very difficult to communicate just thru typing. And yet it is very freeing and a very good place to exchange ideas and plans and news of liberty.


"let him be accursed"

I'm so sorry that post greived you so (((((bear)))))), because it was only the tip of the iceburg of what I see as common goals between LF and the LM. I appreciate your input, though I found it biased in making your point, the difference is you took what he said personally and I don't, but rather see it no different that what many here complain and blame about tptb, AKA "old white guys".

I thought you might enjoy this link regarding the words Apostle Paul offered in Galatians 1:6 http://www.sounddoctrine.com/another_gospel.htm

Yes, Granger, that is exactly what I believe

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 1Cor 15:3,4
I also believe that we are one in Christ and that there is no difference in race or station in life:

Colossians 3:11 KJV
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
I do not hear LF personally, I hear him speaking of the white race collectively. He is not just talking about "old white guys." He is talking about the white race. I don't take the words personally. I could care less if Jesus was white, black, brown or yellow. That does not matter. According to LF he is black because it does matter because the white man is the seed of the devil.

There are white people who teach that black people are the seed of the devil. Neither white nor black are the seed of any but Adam. And it is thru Christ that we become Children of God.

As far as NOI, I think they want their own land or something. Do you know about that? Do you see that as a common cause?



LF own land. Farrakhan owned “ornate palaces” in Chicago IL and Phoenix AZ, a Mexican villa, and a 77-acre estate in Michigan.

Some people and organizations have decided LF talks about the WHITE race.. and I don't see that.. I heard him say there is a white mind and a blck mind and that white people can have black minds and visa versa.. I think those who want to see racism see it, and those who do not, don't. I don't. But I do see those who call it racist, and to me it's because that what they look for, evidense of racism,, whcih being LF tried to make it simple as black and white.. it comes out racist.

Being the NOI is the fastest growing religion in the USA, (and it is considered a quazi religion by Muslim standards, still, it has been grown in the US, and now global, US prison system.. which to me, says that the Christian faith has let many prisoners down if they have decided to turn to NOI to be saved, eh?

I want to add.. one of the things I have learned, is that the NOI is the fasting growing religion (which Muslims who practice Ramadan and Hiaj refer as a cult) in the world, so as we spread prisons globally, we are spreading the NOI.

Ok, now I have a new question

The way I hear LF is that he voted for Obama because he is a "brother."

Why didn't LF vote for Ron Paul? Why didn't he vote for Liberty? I wonder what he things about Carson...the man who spoke at the prayer breakfast. That would be interesting to know.

I wonder what a black brain is? Is it one that accepts NOI? What is a white brain?

I didn't think brains came in color. See, I don't see color as dividing.

Anyways you are right. I fail to share and spread the good news of Christ. I have never been to a prison. My husband has been to visit. I know a Christian that goes every week to visit. But me, I don't go.


I'd like to know what he thinks of BC too

I can only guess why he voted for Obama being Obama is black and the black population came out for Obama in hopes that LF capitalized on with his vote.

It was LF's praise of Ron Paul that brought him to my attention.

Yes, I think perhaps a black brain is that which struggles for the light, and the white brain struggles to control the light.

I can see the idea of brains coming in color, after all, we all don't think alike and there are many reasons for that culturally. I think color can divide, but it can also paint a picture and offer more choices. Some people have favorite colors, and some have the same favorite color their whole life, while others, the colors change, but everyone does not have a favorite color.

I am not saying that you fail to share and spread the good news of Christ. I think that is the majority of your posts on DP, and I think I have been supportive of that.

Because the NOI is growing in American prisons, I think it's a lack of Christian outreach Catholic, Christian.. it's our loss, I'm not saying it's our fault.. I suspect that as the state condemns Christians and Catholics and boots us off of their turf, such as prisons making it hard and expensive to do.. the NOI grows from the inside. I understand the most powerful prison gang is the Arian Brotherhood, which cionsiders itself Christian, though they have committed more murders in prison than any group.. and perhaps they are another reason? I don't know. But I do know that I am not blaming or chastizing you. I don't go. And even if you did or I did, would that mean we would be able to reach young black women and offer them something outside of prison? I don't know. (((((((((bear)))))))

I didn't think you were blaming me. I should have been more

clear, but I perhaps am a picture just like you are of what the "church(es)" are doing. And that is that the majority of us may not be reaching out. So when I see a deficiency I generally point my finger back at myself. Just like you are serving on the GOP, I am not. I am a picture of most people who will not or cannot get involved in that way. So who do I have to blame if the GOP doesn’t succeed?” Me, not Granger :) And I realize it is not me alone, but it is me and everyone like me. That is all I mean. I have to look at myself first and know why there might be a problem. I am sorry, I didn’t mean to say that you are pointing at me as being the sole problem.

It is very concerning that prisons are divided racially. It is hatred. Religion based on hatred of ones fellow human is not the message of Christ.

I don’t think there should be colors of brains. I think that we should be of one mind.

• Romans 12:16 KJV
Be of the same mind one toward another . Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

• Philippians 2:2 KJV
Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be like minded , having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind

• 1 Peter 3:8 KJV
Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

Granger you have always been very supportive of me. Even when I when head to head with you on the meaning of FEAR. You were nothing but kind in your words back to me. It took me a couple of weeks to understand what you were meaning. That meaning came when I saw your comments in the MOD box regarding your father.

It greived me during the election to see people give you such a hard time and down vote you for your loyalty pledge.

I love people of all colors, minds, stations in life. I am not better than any one. The foot of the cross is level. I think LF is talking more than minds because he specifically said Jacob killed all of his children of color and only saved the white ones and that is where the white race came from. He was talking about babies killed for the color of their skin.

What is funny now that I am thinking about it. During that same message he says that white people came from black people. Well, if we are the devil where did the devil come from? Maybe the devil is attached only to the color of skin somehow. I don't know. What I do know is that in Christ there is no sex, no race, no nobility. And that is how we are to treat one another. We are all equals.

It is a shame what was done by some white people to some black people. It is a shame that that was allowed to exist in the United States under the Constitution. I am sure my grandfather was of that ilk. He hated women and black people. He was like Archie Bunker. It is no wonder that some black people hate. Even my black friends have history of some white people being ugly to them. I don't like it, but all I can do is be kind and loving.

I have Amish friends here. One 2 occasions, they have thought they were being laughed at by other people when I am certain they were not. It is probably because they have been laughed at all their lives even as children so now if someone laughs and they don't know why, they assume it is because of them. It must be very difficult. It is too bad some people are cruel.


I understand and am the same way

and why I get into the GOP, as you say, if I don't then who am I to complain, especially when there is a polotocal leader I can respect like Ron and Rand Paul?

It was a shame what happened to and with my family, but THANK GOD for his grace and mercy.

I understand why people downvoted me, si it would have been greivous had this discourged me and I quit the GOP, as would please the GOP (unless I just want to pay dues and shut up), and what would have been tragic, is if I had not kept the loyalty oath I took, because that would proove that I could not be trusted. As it is, though I didn't like Romney and worked hard for Ron Paul, the vote I gave to Romney proved that I was a person of my word.. downvotes or not.

One day Father Ryan from Lake County http://www.lakecountypassionplay.org/home.html led us in Mass and in his homily he said something that relates to LF.. He was talking about how cults will take the scripture and parts of the Bible translation they want and reject others. And I think from the little I know about LF, it appears he has taken what he wants and has built an elaborate story that has served him well, but also served a large black population that is growing the NOI.

My best friend was born Jewish but LOVES all things Amish.. buy and wears Amish clothes because they are made in America.. I think I'll ask him when he's going to get a horse and wagon. LOL

Yes, it is too bad that the world is full of cruelty, and I THANK GOD for his mercy in delivering me from my own experiences and pray he do the same for all.

Thank you for sharing the story.

I'm so sorry, bear, for what your brother-in-law is going through. It amazes me how some people go through life watching the clock, looking for things to fill their time, while others wonder how they'll ever have enough time to do all they want to and feel called to do, even without the added challenge of health being compromised. It sounds as if Joey has accomplished much in his lifetime to date, and surely the way in which he's handling this will only continue to inspire others. At the same time, how lucky he is to have the love and support of his congregation. It had to be so difficult for him to keep going as their pastor as if nothing were wrong, until he was ready for closure there. Now that he's divested himself of that responsibility, I hope he'll enjoy the time spent with your sister and their children; may there be many more memories of time together for them to cherish. I'll keep the family in my prayers. As you said in a comment below, all will be well. And P.S. You, my friend, are an inspiration as well.

When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.
~ John Muir

Thank you mdefarge for stopping in with your words,

His words about a 3-2 count really hit home with me as I consider some of the things I look back on and see missed opportunity. Makes me want to be sure I am ready the next time I am called on up to pitch!

My sister can hardly talk to me. She says after me having cancer it is too close for words. I appreciate you keeping them in your prayers and for stopping in here with your kind words.

It is good to hear from you, my friend :)

Bear I was going to pm you but looks like I can't so here --

I read the entire article. I was tearful reading the article until I got to the part about his doctor and Joey asked him "You can at least talk to animals can't you?" hee hee...what a great attitude in the face of ill-health. What a fine man your bro-in-law is. I see the pic of your sister and I guess your niece, bless their hearts.

I suffered 4 hard losses last year: my best friend since high school (I'm no spring chicken), a much-revered 'political guy', a well-loved RP supporter and my 13 year-old step-nephew...Last year was really hard so this article was especially touching for me. I still grapple with (kick against) "why bad things happen to good people" type thing but am coming out of it as it takes time to go through the entire grieving process (especially over and over with several deaths).

Even though pain and loss still sucks mudwater, this verse helped me somewhat, maybe it will you too (Genesis 50:20)...I'm fairly sure that that is the verse folks refer to when they say "satan meant it for bad but God meant it for good"...sometimes it is still of little comfort.

I could say lots more but would rather this not become "downvote fest 2013" as I see downvoting already has started...how sad. I upvoted for what good it will do. I hope that y'all have a miracle with Joey. I'll put y'all on my prayer list. Hugs. Bless Joey, Bless you and your family Bear.

The devil is a sly ole fox
and if I could I'd put him in a box
and throw away the key
for the mean ole things he's done to me.

Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer

Hi SC Butterfly

I am so glad you stopped in to share. It is hard when things happen so fast that you don’t know what is going on and pain is multiplied upon pain. I read your reply yesterday and my heart immediately went out to you. I wanted to return this morning with words. I had heard so many times in my life, if nothing bad has happened to you, get ready, it will. For the most part I lived without any of those bad things until I was nearly 30.

Back in 1992/93 I lost 4 people in a row. Sept: then my Uncle who lived close by committed suicide, Feb: First my grandmother who I used to visit every summer, Apr: then my parents house burned down and my brother didn't get out; May: my other grandmother. During that time we were also going thru a terrible church situation.

I was shell shocked, but it wasn't over. Just about the time I was recovering my dad was killed suddenly in a auto accident in 1998, and then on Christmas day same year we found out that my husband's father had passed away. He lived alone and no one knew until weeks later. It was Christmas, and we were trying call him.

Then my mom got cancer. But she made it thru!

It was a very difficult time. I couldn't even pray. I wasn't mad at God, but I had no words. None at all. I was numb. I used to go to church and just cry because all the emotions would flood in in that silent time when all the busyness stops.

in 2001 I finally ended up "with child" after being married 18 years. It was a very hard ordeal. Strict bed rest for 5 months, multiple visits to the hospital. Excruciating pain on multiple occasions. Not knowing whether I would live or whether the baby would live. By the time he was born, I was so week my arms could not even bear to hold him. I had surgery 9 months later to correct some problems and was able to conceive again and give him a brother!

I ended up with cancer in 2008 so in 7 years I ended up with 5 surgeries. God is my rock!

It is thru the difficult times in life I have become more aware of His love and care. My sister has been thru all of those things and now the love of her life is dying before her eyes. But look at their testimony:

“But this past Christmas Eve when Dawn and the three children gathered for their family tradition, where they each tell what the best event was that happened in the past year, they all were in agreement.
The best thing was … his cancer. Because their family is closer than ever before, and they are leaning on their faith more than ever.”

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2013/03/09/4111194/gods-next-assig...

Sometimes it is the hardest times of life that we really learn what faith in God is. It is not always for a miracle, but trust that Our Father will see us thru.

I have PM turned off because I rarely use my email and when I joined the DP I was in the state of fear because I had just woken up and I really didn't want anyone to know me :)


We have similar trials it appears

I could go back before last year also with the "'after 30' bad things". Especially losing my Dad in 2010. Then my husbands company up and moved out of state and he's been unemployed a good while (I'm a stay at home mom). And then last year finally realizing that America was not going to heed Ron Paul (on top of the lives lost I already mentioned). I mean it's been like Charlie Brown's kite string.

Numb. Shell-shocked. Yep. It has basically been crazytown for my family for about 13 years, I could tell you a list kind of like yours.

I raised "Liberty Kids" (14, 16 & 19) and all three of my kids are saved so as far as a mother's ministry, I guess I got the job done (by the hair of my teeth). I just had so wished we could truly push back on the evil and tyranny for our children's sake and I finally had to recognize that Ron Paul (and the Bible) calls us a "remnant" for a reason...

Ecclesiastes 1:18
For in much wisdom [is] much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

None of this probably made sense. I'm really, really weary, But I have had some "serendipity" with this post, lots of references to Habakkuk keep popping up (which I often refer to regarding "write the vision down that he may run that readeth it" Hab 2:2) and I was also trying to help my daughter in showing her Jesus in the desert being tempted and that through Christ/The Holy Spirit she has the power to command satan to "get behind her" (Luke 4:8) and while doing this, I came across another heading in the Bible..."When Bad Things Happen to Good People"!!!!! regarding the King Josiah and his death at the hands of the Pharaoh -- but by this evil, Daniel, Shadrach, Meschach and Abedneggo were taken hostage to Nebuchadnezzar and their lives and actions turned something bad to something good, memorialized forever for us to learn by.

Phew!! You follow all that? Yikes! :) Be Blessed Pal.

Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer

A smile to my face

is what reading your comment brought. Knowing how hard it is to type while wearing and yet you did. Yes, last year was really hard when Ron Paul was denied the election. I was so discouraged after the RNC as I had hoped so that we would have a chance to see Liberty and a true Statesman rise to the top of our country.

Praise God for your children. They are the only thing you have that you can take to heaven with you! Both of my boys have trusted the Lord Jesus as well. There is much to be thankful for in the midst of the storm.

I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers as you travel thru this time. I know you know that you are in Strong Hands!

2 Corinthians 1:3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort; 4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort where with we ourselves are comforted of God.

Thank you for sharing with me


Is God willing to prevent

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
- Epicurus [341–270 B.C.

A nutty quotation ...

A nutty quotation ... LoL

Maybe, God allows the exercise of the free will which He graciously granted for the sake of judging His creation, eh? According to haters of God, a dad is malevolent for allowing his kids to potentially misuse their limited free will to act and thereby suffer the consequences even after he forewarned his kids. If God preemptively prevents an act, then He can't judge an act. I can't stop laughing at that quotation....

Don't post anything against the religion herd

They will downvote you and then post a scripture.

The religious cult on dailypaul is just like every other forum mob. Like liberal college kids on reddit. "That doesn't confirm my bias and downvotes make it look like an unreasonable or bad post!" So the herd with unflinching devotion marches merrily forward with no sense of irony as they lock step in mutual glowing praise for the religion of kings and emperors used to subjugate peasants and intellectual dissidents for centuries.

No train to Stockholm.

Stay Classy


πολλα γαρ πταιομεν απαντες ει τις εν λογω ου πταιει ουτος τελειος ανηρ δυνατος χαλιναγωγησαι και ολον το σωμα

I don't know why you're even on this thread

but I'd say it goes more like, on a post where a fellow DP member is losing a loved one to cancer, try to say something positive or don't say anything at all... or people with a sense of decorum, whether they believe in Jesus Christ or not, might downvote your comment. There are enough other opportunities giving you a forum for your opinions about religion. I'll spare you the Scripture verse. Here's a song instead. Actually, its message makes me think of the graciousness with which bear has responded to some of the comments here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4fWN6VvgKQ

When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.
~ John Muir

Because I believe in free speech

And using it often, even when it's not popular.

No train to Stockholm.

true true..

I'm halfway to developing a new relationship with my half sister who in the past I wouldn't/couldn't/shouldn't trust as far as I could throw her.

well, she found religion some years back and I'm not sure exactly how that has changed her but I'm ALWAYS having to check myself or be checked by her if I say something that is disagreeable to her. =eyes rolling=

I'm a big fan of "say what you mean and mean what you say" even if it's not agreeable..or popular.

Daughter of 1776 American Revolutionists

Free Speech is Great!

and honestly, I am glad you came here. Yes, my family is suffering, and I shared that suffering with my Daily Paul Friends in and of Liberty. Even though my family is suffering their faith is seeing them thru. That is something to be thankful for.

The Apostle Pauls spoke of free speech...and now yes, here comes the Bible verse :) not out of revenge, anger or hatred, but out of a heart that says here look!

I Corinthians 13:1 Tho I speak with the tongue of men and angels and have not love, I am nothing.

You see the message is to love one another. We are all a part of the human family and we all need encouragement and love and we all can give encouragement and love. There is Liberty in Love because it forages relationships and friendships.

This is what Jesus said:

This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

Christians are to be known by their love, That message has been lost somewhere, and I apologize for it.

Jesus had a follower named Luke. Luke wrote 2 books of the Bible. Luke and Acts. The book of Luke is called one of the Gospels. It is the account of Jesus' time on earth. The book of Acts is the account of the early church. Luke was a doctor.

Here are the words that Luke recorded spoken by Jesus concerning love: http://www.biblestudytools.com/search/?q=love&c=lu&t=kjv&ps=...

Here is the first one:

Luke 6:27 KJV
But I say unto you which hear , Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

If you want to see some more you can click on the link.

I hope LukeO, that you will count me, bear, a Friend in Liberty.



So, Eat, Drink and Be merry for tomorrow we die.

But what if his notion of God is ill-conceived leaving nothing but logical sounding nonsense behind.

Free includes debt-free!

If God saved us from every single bad thing that we came across.

What would be the point of life?

God has the power to protect us, but like a father chooses to let us make our own decisions and suffer our own consequences. Even on a large scale, the faults of starvation are not Gods, but of corrupt men who make up the government that steals their food.

The point of life is what you make it

What was the point of life for the millions of people who lived and died for 90,000+ years before Moses talked to Yahweh in the mountains?

Were they all burying their dead for nothing? Why were they having ceremonies and rituals without knowledge of the tribal god of the jews?

No train to Stockholm.

Did you know that God walked and talked with people back then?

Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

Actually there are only 2-3,000 years between the time Adam was created and Moses was born.

Arrogance of man...

"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight." 1 Cor. 3:19

Seriously, how do you expect an infinitely inferior being (man) to be wise enough to catch God (infinitely superior) in some loophole of reason?

The arrogance of man to assume God would do things in the optimal way according to their great wisdom and if not, then he doesn’t make since. Right…

God never promised Christians a rose garden... In fact warned of the opposite:

"In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world" John 16:33.

Bad things WILL happen to you at some point in life. The good news is, this life is temporary, and better things are yet to come for those who can see beyond this short finite existence.

No irony?????

The arrogance of man?? as you read from men who claim to know what god wants or thinks?!?!? lmao.... You kooks with your religious brainwashing have the most hilarious ironic posts.

No train to Stockholm.

Hey LukeO

It was not my intent to post anything contentious or offensive. I am a born again Christian and all of my hope is in the Lord Jesus Christ. I stake my eternity on it so I am one of those crazies you are talking about. Having gone thru cancer myself, I am glad for my faith in the Lord. It means everything to me.

That is really good.

And it gets to the heart of a key issue for me... Why name what is beyond our comprehension? I do not deny the existence of something larger than myself, I can see the Universe... I do not deny that I am subject to forces I do not see, I understand how sunlight acts on my cells... I appreciate that my ancestors handed down the oral traditions, and then wrote down the traditional history, and I so seek guidance in what they left us, but... If we are to evolve spiritually, at some point we have to stop being "followers" and start living as the little cog in the Universal wheel that we are. One of the biggest "grown up" things we need to do is accept that we do not know some things and cannot know them. We are free to offer all the theories and pick the one we find most appealing, but we need to tread into "faith" with both eyes open. And once we are in this land of "make do with believe" WHY ARGUE ABOUT THE NAME OF SOMETHING INCONCEIVABLE????

Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.