15 votes

To Utility Companies (RE: Smart Meters)

minivanjack
This video is a resource for all those who oppose to Smart Meters and other digital utility meters. This video may be used for unedited and unaltered reproduction for public viewing in all media without license or fee. This video can be embedded and copied for the purposes of public presentation. This video is particularly suited for presentation at public meetings where power company officials and/or utility regulatory officials are taking comment from the public. If the meeting does not allow 5:30 for one individual's comments, submit this video on behalf of two individuals.

http://youtu.be/UPLSwAm9DkQ

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Easements

The reason the utility companies are allowed on your property is because you agreed to an easement and this is part of your deed.

You agreed to allow them on your property for any maintenance to their equipment.

Just to be clear, I'm not on their side and I'm against smart meters because the radio frequencies are dangerous.

Monopolies

Most utility companies are monopolies. In such cases free market principles go out the window. Not having energy is not an option. You therefore have two choices: bend over and take it or fight it via legislation or the courts.

All that said, there are much more important issues to spend your time and effort on than Smart Meters.

Utility companies have a monopoly only on distribution

The other two parts (transmission and generation), can come from many sources.

If I generate power onsite and sell it to the grid, my power goes directly to your house next door. The billing has zero to do with where the electrons go.

So, to take away their monopolies on transmission and generation (mostly gen), we need a free market solution which allow me to bill you directly with them getting only the cut for the 100' of wire between us. This is what the smart meters COULD do for us but we have to get them to give us access to the live, real-time prices. That's the only way we can barter outside of their control.

If we did this successfully, the overages of home renewables (which is the single killing downside) could become profitable and people would be putting them in to earn extra income. Think of where that puts the utilities and the oil companies... and the war-for-oil complex and the banks and....

before jumping on this bandwagon,

please read my posts below. I am a very strong advocate for liberty and free markets (you won't find many that are as supportive) and I know a lot about this subject. I have designed, built and pushed for many proposals at the political and utility levels.

There are some concerns but this video does not frame those one bit accurately. Please don't be the sheeple that we all complain about. Do the research as we all beg others to do.

Drive-by downvoting is mob-rule. Don't let that take over DP.

I'll bet $$$

I bet you are a Zeigeist proponent. Zeitgeist proposes centralized management of energy which requires smart meters to work. (Cloaked version of Agenda 21, anyone?)

So transparent.

Sorry to disappoint you

but I'm not some nazi spy, agenda driven freak or any other kind of non-daily paul member. I've been here longer than you so you might want to tone that back some. I just happen to know this subject better than any other member on this site, I would bet money. I have fought this battle for the last decade and I came from a place of trying to bring energy independence to not only this country but to INDIVIDUALS living in it. You should be just a little more open to what I'm saying because I'm trying to stop the very tyranny you rail against. There are processes that underly electrical generation that you can't simply wish away. To deal with them in a continuing economic and energy crisis, YOU WILL BE SUBJECTED TO NEW RULES. That's a like or nothing scenario. There is no "or not".

What I'm trying to do is to use this technology to our benefit, instead of allowing it to be used to keep us forever enslaved. If you had read the info I posted below, and actually comprehended it, you would know this. Just because something feels wrong doesn't mean we should completely throw it out in it's entirety. Maybe there are slight changes that can be made which we can use to our benefit. For starters, wouldn't you like to be able to go solar and have that system pay you a monthly check, collected from your neighbors with no government involvement? That's the ultimate free market possibility of using this tech the right way.

If you keep fighting against it however, you will end up with smart meters done their way (because you have zero legal choices) and you will get everything you fear.

As far as Zeitgeist goes, you damn right. But once again you miss the mark completely because I'm not for their complete anti-money, resource only system. I'm only supportive of them to the point that they accurately show many ways that corruption creeps into society. I also like that they want the public to know where are resource abundance stands. Since the governments keep accurate info on this hidden, it allows them to once again, manipulate the markets to their advantage and our disadvantage. My research shows that it's absolutely possible for abundant resources to be available to this planet's entire 12 billion future population but you wouldn't know that without a common measuring stick.

And no, that measurement doesn't have to be government sanctioned. It's much easier to get the people to do this. And no, it also doesn't mean that we have to place any power behind "managing" resources (INCLUDING POWER). The people do that best as well.

So while smart meters are a step down the path to Agenda 21, they are also a step down the path to a people driven anti-Agenda 21 world. They are no different than computer networks in that respect because it matters how you use them. I'm trying to put YOU in charge of that, not those you fear.

deleated

.

"A vote for the lesser of two evils is a vote to keep things the same", Buckminster Fuller..
A choice for liberty is always a choice for liberty.

References

A video of some crackpot who misquotes physics, electronics and radio is a tangible platform? There's almost nothing factual in what he has said. I just Googled and Wiki'd a couple things and can show you the lies.

I'm presenting the science behind it, which you can also Google. I don't have some guy who made a video to do the celebrity endorsement style justification.

If you have a specific item you question, feel free to request and I will try to find documentation in support.

here's my question

does it know if it's my dishwasher running?

"The two weakest arguments for any issue on the House floor are moral and constitutional"
Ron Paul

Nope

IF (and that's a key question)... IF it has hundreds of dollars in analysis electronics and high speed sampling circuitry, which wouldn't even fit in that little box, the most it could tell is the breakdown of various harmonic frequency loads by the varying power factor of reactive loads. In layman's terms, this means:

There's a 50/50 chance this certain harmonic noise reflection is coming from a small motor loads. (Dryers, Washers, dishwashers, fridges, fans and mixers all produce similar noise.)

or

There's a 70% chance this high frequency noise is coming from small power supply loads. (The kind in home electronics)

or

There's a 90% chance that this clean signal (no distortion) represents x% of the load is fully resistive (like heating elements or incandescent filaments).

And all of this doesn't even get the breakdown of whether there's 1 three-hp motor running or 3 one-hp motors running. Maybe there's 100 .o3hp motors running? There's no way to tell.

However, if you spent $2-3 grand EACH, you could trend those loads over long periods and see which ones switch on/off separately and then match that to a database (in real time) of known electronic devices to get a wide profile. This by itself wouldn't be useful but if they somehow learned exactly what appliances you own, they might be able to get 30% certainty of SOME of the appliances.

So, it's highly doubtful anyone would spend $200 per customer to learn crap info or $1000 per customer to learn only slightly better info (analyzed) or an insane $2500 per customer to learn the breakdowns listed above.

Another engineer friend of mine proposed an analogy. He said that it was possible to place a camera over a 1 square foot patch of a lake and determine everything that disturbed the water's surface anywhere on the lake. As you might guess, 'some' info could be more attainable, but it will be decades before the equipment, the computers and the measurement systems can provide the quality to make this truly a reality. I think it's a great analogy.

Are you starting to see how ludicrous this is?

Sorry but I posted before I read your earlier posts.

Which is why I deleted my inappropriate comments. I am involved with electric medicine and sometimes my ego and cynicism can get the better of me.

"A vote for the lesser of two evils is a vote to keep things the same", Buckminster Fuller..
A choice for liberty is always a choice for liberty.

Down with dicta H aters

So these installers came around a few years ago, I said loud and clear that I did not want to have them on my private property installing anything. They simply ignored my statement. The installers and proceeded. I was at a delima to call police, allways a bad idea in my mind. To take some ofensive action, again police get involved and in my mind a bad idea. So they installed them.

I reasoned that I have to choose these confrontational battles carfully if you end up dead or in prison you do no one any good, not you family, yourself, your freinds and neighbors, and the other like minded liberty minded people.

I really dont care if they are good I do care if they are bad and I do know that they are now recording my electrical usage in a much more defined manner. The major problem I have is being forced to accept them.

It seems alot of things that could be voluntary are dictated commanded. What is it power, fear, what causes these groups, corps, governments, and gangs to be so fearful of asking so as to always be demanding.

sovereign

Why would you think you own the meter they use?

They sell you a product so they have control over what meter measures how much. Their contract says they have every right to upgrade it as they wish. If you don't like this, fight their monopoly. You say you can't? Well, here's why.

When you investigate our energy problems in the modern world today, you quickly learn that over half of what we pay comes from the power company not having the ability to quickly follow load. (You do know that they have to generate every watt you use at the instant you use it and they have to predict your use, right?) If they can't profile use any better than "this town is using 118,839,409.20 watts right now", they are forced to keep large generators running at full speed and idle capacity, just to stop an outage from occurring if 100 people suddenly turned on a hair dryer in sync. Even the passing of a cloud over a neighborhood which causes a few hundred lights to be switched on at the same time causes mismatches which ultimately lead to higher costs.

By getting time-of-use info on a per customer level, those predictions can be over a million times as accurate and they can shut down expensive spinning reserve. It also allows them to negotiate better rates for future transmission capacity. (Think of buying an air fare on zero notice vs. on a week's notice.)

But what you should really be interested in is the ability of the people to sell power back to them. Currently, there is no time-of-use instant price structure available. This is the BIGGEST roadblock to people making excess generation profitable. If you are forced to sell your excess back at 1 cent/kWh when you paid 15 cents/kWh during your short times, you WILL NEVER BUY ANY EXCESS solar (for example) above your peak afternoon usage. This means that all renewables are destined to remain as dismissed players in energy independence. This keeps their monopoly going, it keeps big oil in charge and it keeps you paying every freakin' price hike they send your way.

Is that what you want?

Why would you think that I think I own their meter

But What makes you think because I get a service with one meter that this corporation can come on to my private property and install new equipment that I did not agree to even after I order them off my private property?
How can you defend their actions. By making some ignorant claim that I do not own their meters. Are you insane?
So because they have a monopoly on electric, you say the only solutions is to submit to what ever they choose to do or disconnect from electric?

I really wonder what makes people think like they do somtimes?

sovereign

THE

power companies own the meter. They have the right to turn off your power if you don't let them replace your meter. They should send you a memo telling you they are going to do this. They probably did and it was ignored. You own the meter box that the meter is plugged into but not the meter. This is theirs and any tampering with the meter, you can be subject to being taken to court for theft. The overhead or underground wire coming to your residence. Is theirs. The riser, weather-head, clamps, insulator, ground rod, etc. are yours. And they cannot change any of this without your permission. But, the meter is theirs.
You have the right to not use their power and yes disconnect. If you have an alternate energy supply. This is your prerogative.
You have to live with it if you do not.

It's time! Rand Paul 2016!

"Truth, Justice, and the American Way!"

TAKE BACK YOUR POWER

Good info here....

Take Back Your Power
http://takebackyourpower.net/

https://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100003035859289&sk=info

Smart meters should be seen as the friend of the liberty movmnt!

Smart meters should be seen as the friend of the liberty movement, not the enemy. They are the epitome of the free market. They give US much more power than they give the power companies. If we embrace them and direct their use properly, this power can quickly allow us to break the monopoly currently held over us by the utility companies. This can only happen if we mandate that we are given the info they send to their meters. This info consists of the instantaneous cost charged for power at all times during a billing period. People should realize exactly how empowering this info can be. With this information, we can show that our onsite generation equipment can compete on a level playing field with them sending us power. Currently, most states and utilities only credit our generated power at about 10% of the value of theirs. With the published rate data, we can begin to sell our excess power to our neighbor for the same price as the power company does. In this way, smaller, localized mini-grids can erupt and compete directly with the rates charged by larger utilities.

It is the smart meter, combined with a simple internet styled routing system, which will power 3rd world villages much sooner than waiting for large companies to run expensive (and genuinely dangerous) transmission lines to their location. The result will be local free markets for power and costs will start low and plummet from there. When more power is needed, any player involved can increase their onsite generation and effectively open up a business of selling power. If a daily balance problem arises, others may purchase devices to shift the load/production to times when it is more profitable. This can be done by storage via batteries, compressed air tanks, flywheels or by load shedding via charging electric cars at different times, diverting heavy loads until rates are lower (because excess power exists) or other methods.

Without this information, we will forever be enslaved to their monopoly of power distribution and to their whims for the rates charged.

If you support the local movement and the free market and the right to be in charge of your own purchases, the smart meter should be your strongest ally in modern society. Without direct personal control over power, every device that uses energy is ultimately sending your money to the elite banking industry and you have no way to stop it.

Time to set the record straight!

This pisses me off to no end. People really need to do their own research and listen to factual logic rather than listen to those who simply don't understand electricity.

This video begins by attacking the power companies on legal grounds for installing illegal surveillance devices on a person's property. This is not applicable in 99% of the cases. I cannot speak to every single one, however, the only thing the utility company can possibly monitor is the rate of use of THEIR PRODUCT, i.e. their electricity. This is their right, as the seller of this product. When you signed the agreement to purchase their product, you did NOT specify the time frame or method of measurement of that product. So if the company wishes to eliminate human meter reader cost while increasing their load profile accuracy, this is THEIR RIGHT. If you disagree, you are obliged to compensate them. Keep in mind that every watt of electricity used must be made the instant it is used and often this power comes from hundreds of miles away.

The second claim made here is that it illegally emits dangerous radiation, causing harm to the homeowners. This is patently false. Yes, it does emit 'some' radiation but so does every device in the average home today. The wireless transmission method used is generally only one of 3 types, with a 4th method to send the transmission via their power lines, which is completely harmless from a human perspective. The wireless topologies used are identical in physical characteristics to those used by standard cell phones, WiFi routers, laptops, tablets, game boxes and smart TVs. It even uses the very same transmission chip. These signals are in no way different due to any extended use, extended range or other trait. If a homeowner opens a "search connections" function on any of these devices, they can easily see home many signals from neighborhood routers they are already being bombarded by so it is completely irrational to fight electrical grid progress based on this metric.

The next claims include that there is no proper disclosure of the functions of the meter. This is false because in 99% of the cases, the only function is to monitor power use at incremental price rates, package that data and send it back to the power company for billing and generation planning purposes. The instances where this was not the case, there was full disclosure and individual contracts were pre-signed by each customer, allowing limited device power throttling under shortage conditions. This cost saving feature of load balancing of the local grid saves on the generation of the most expensive type of electricity, e.g. "standby spinning reserve", which savings is either passed on to the customer as lower rates or deferred rate increases from other reasons. Since the public rebelled at this violently, it was a disastrous failure and is rarely attempted these days. This is a shame because shedding load by peoples' dryers and water heaters short cycling is a zero-cost method of matching harsh load swings as opposed to keeping a massive generator running at full speed, just 'waiting' to generate needed power at a moment's notice.

The video claims that switching power supplies are another inherent danger. If this were the case, then the homeowner should not be purchasing or even using power in the first place. Virtually every single device with any 'controls' on it (microwaves, computers, cable boxes, dimmers, stoves, refrigerators, televisions, radios, game consoles, CFL and LED light bulbs, modern dishwashers and clothes appliances... they all have cheap switching power supplies. The placement of a switching power supply (claimed bad because their cheap design causes electronic noise) affects the entire home equally, regardless of where they are placed except that physical distance mutes this noise. This means that your computer power supply, by being physically closer to the user, is much more offensive than a tiny smart meter located outside. And more power transmitted on the wires mutes this effect even more. This means that a smart meter attached to the home's massive feed wires will have virtually no effect at all. These supplies are only as powerful as they need be so since every one of these listed uses much more power than a simple metering device like a 'smart meter', theirs are all much much more EMI producing. Also, they are located inside the home, not at the meter outdoors. THESE are the qualifiers that every electronic textbook outlines about switching power supplies so this video is the one disregarding the known facts. This claim is so far off base, it kills the credibility of the entire video.

The video then makes the astonishing claim that swapping power meters "at full load" has caused 1,000 house fires! This is blatant propaganda in your face! There is no way possible that shutting power off to a home for 1 minute to swap a meter is any different that simply losing power for that same minute. It is seen by home appliances as identical in every single way. If any fire has been the result of this, it could only have been directly caused by a faulty meter itself or by some automated process that relied on power to stop a fire from occurring. The former is an identical concern as with any electronic device and the latter is against the contract of purchasing power from a 2nd party. People are required to purchase uninterruptable power supplies (UPS) for life critical power needs because power service simply cannot be guaranteed. Ever.

"We know that 13% of the population is electromagnetic sensitive in varying degrees" is the next claim made. This lie is staggering in it's magnitude. There are less than a dozen cases world-wide of known EHS (Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity) which cannot be attributed to the placebo effect. In each of these cases, the only solution was for the afflicted to physically move to a cave and ditch ALL ELECTRIC DEVICES. They claim they must be at least 40 miles from any radio towers. Even flashlights operating within 100 feet are claimed by these people as causing their effects, which further calls their claims into question because flashlights, being DC devices, have no method of producing EMI at all.

"We know the recorded data from meters will be hacked and misused" is the next claim made here. The equipment required and the effort needed to do this is simply not justified by the information available. Who would spend even $100 to hack a system just to learn how many kilowatts in aggregate that a home uses? Without sophisticated Fourier Transform Analysis (FFT) waveform equipment connected directly to the wires, it is not possible to gain any more info than simply reading the changing numbers on the meter face itself. This equipment would cost hundreds of dollars per meter and physically could not even fit inside these small meter boxes. A much better and cheaper method of 'hacking' would be to set a camera up to watch someone's meter display from a distance.

You are correct AND

they are perfectly welcome to put whatever the hell meter they want to put OFF my property.

But that costs them too much, so they want the meter ON MY HOUSE.

If it's on my property then I have a say, thank you very much.

Would you allow the city to put rabid pit bulls on your easement? That's all this is an easement. Both parties need to agree on an easement.

Where was your original meter?

In all the history of electrical distribution, the meters have been located on the property, not on the pole, for a reason. Why is that? It's because the property owner wanted to limit access of that meter to people simply wandering around in the easement/alley/common area. People didn't want not only the possibly vandalism but they didn't want others to be able to read the numbers.

It also allowed the customer to defer maintenance of the wires from pole to meter back to the power company. Do you really want to maintain those wires? They are the most common area of damage during storms because being 'slack lines', they sway and whip around in the wind more than the stretched ones between poles. They are also the most expensive to work on (because they're ALWAYS LIVE).

For these reasons, and aside from special circumstances which are mutually agreed upon, people have pushed to get the meter to be mounted on a stationary and privately owned structure. Now you complain about that.

Your complaint doesn't stem from their access either. I know this because if you were on an old meter and their wire broke away from their meter because a cable company pulled on it while you were away, you would certainly want them to fix it if they had been notified of the damage. In other words, it is their responsibility for every failure in the entire chain from the coal nugget to your side of their meter. Beyond that, all losses are yours.

Upgrades are no different. Their equipment, their responsibility.

"rabid pit bulls" Really? You're comparing something that has so many benefits (that you can't perceive yet) and uses technology you probably purchased (WiFi xmitter chips in wireless devices) and causes no harm to anyone to a vicious poisonous animal? And before you go saying it does cause harm, please cite the info. Toaster, hair dryers, laptops, furnaces and lights all cause many times the number of fires that these meters have caused. The news of fires is nothing more than media spotlighting.

DELETED

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To your point on limiting access....

I want to limit access of high-power, high-frequency radiation on my property.

I want to limit access of spys, snoops and degenerates knowing the details of my power usage beyond the grand total I've used.

So, there you have it.

As far as your PERCEPTIONS regarding what is allowable on an easement, that is a matter of local law, not your opinion. Thank you very much.

You want

to limit access of high power, high freq radiation on your property? Ok, where are you saying this is coming from? Smart meters do not produce high power radiation. The radiation they do produce comes from a tiny $1 WiFi chip exactly like you find in every cell phone, WiFi router, cordless telephone, laptop and tablet. I can find you the chip specs if you aren't convinced.

The power level follows the inverse square law. What that means is that as the distance traveled doubles, the power level drops by 4 times (the square of 2x). For you, this means that your wireless devices inside your home affect you dozens to hundreds of times as much as an outdoor meter would. There is simply no getting around this fact.

You want to limit access of spies, snoops and degenerates from knowing the details of your power usage beyond the grand total used? Ok, well, that's one valid real concern. Keep in mind, it does not give them any info whatsoever on what devices you use when, but just the total used at any moment. With the myriad different cycles of loads like major appliances and the varied types of small appliances, there is simply no way to use this information to figure out any appliance specific trends. I'm not saying it's not a possibility but as I said below, it would take a high speed FFT waveform analysis system to do it and that's not going to fit into your little meter. (I've designed these things and it's tough to even get the measurement, buffer, power supply, display and transmitter fit into it!) Besides, it would cost way too much. That equipment would run over $1,000 in mass quantities and meters were a no-go until their total price dropped under $500.

Two MUCH better ways to monitor you in your home would be to either watch your house with an infrared camera or to simply trap your internet activity. Both of these can be done to any number of homes with a couple hundred dollars. Your smart meter fear requires each home to host dedicated spy equipment.

Another point to know here is that by using electronic transmission methods, the display can be turned off to stop nosy neighbors from even reading your total monthly usage.

As to the ethics of the power company knowing your instant power usage... Don't you agree they have this right? They are providing you with a product for a cost. That product has a shelf life of 1 micro-second. They have as high as double the cost if they miss their load predictions and leave too much generation on or off. They obviously pass that cost on to you and to your neighbors. Do you have the right to dictate that everyone pays higher rates because you don't want a company to know how much of their product you are buying when?

My statements on easements are not perceptions. They are standard in the contract that is signed by every single electricity customer on the planet. You either allow them access to their equipment of you pre-arrange another location for it BEFORE you sign up. Thank you very much.

Do you have these same issues with your ISP? If not, you should.

You're wrong.

It's far more powerful than that as the trucks can read it as they drive by from the street several hundred feet away.

No normal, household wireless signal or equipment I know goes that far, only high-power boosted ones.

No, you're wrong. You're comparing apples and oranges

Normal WiFi is 802.11 b/n/g or similar. This has a limited power range, ultimately set by the cooling on the transmitter chip. This cooling determines how much power you can send to it. High power routers can boost power levels pretty high and get a few hundred feet of range. This can be increased a little bit by going with Zigbee chips or a couple other newcomers. The higher the frequency, the farther they travel for a given power level. These chips are super cheap and no one has created any new versions because there's no way to profit when a cheap one exists.

Either way, you're worried about the combination of power and "high frequency" of the dangerous electromagnetic radiation hitting you. So, by increasing one, you can decrease the other. Which do you think they care about? Yes. They care about power because that's the product they earn money from. So they pick the highest freq they can for the cheapest amount and then lower the power as low as they can get away with. After all, 10 extra watts per customer times 10,000 customers (tiny town) used for a solid month comes to a revenue loss of $10,800 per month forever.

So, you have some household wireless device putting out one frequency at a higher power rating (because those guys don't pay for the power) inside your house and you want to compare that to some higher frequency, lower power signal outside your house. The piece you're missing is that your device has to travel through walls and doors and floors and paint (a great Faraday cage in some cases thanks to zinc oxide) and carpet and has to deal with multiple phased reflections along it's entire path. Talk about a maze. The outdoor meter has a clear, line-of-sight path. By just these features, the indoor one should travel less than 1/10th of the outdoor one for equivalent original signals.

By the way, I regularly receive usable WiFi signals inside my home from 3 other neighbors, the farthest being 3 houses away. Maybe you just got a dud router?

You can argue this all day long but in the end, it boils down to you just not wanting to listen to anything that kills your idea of it being a conspiracy. I'm not saying the Agenda 21 people aren't trying to asset some control in this market but they are Johnny-come-lately's to this party. Energy management caused by rising prices and fuel volatility started it first. Most importantly, however, distributed generation (aka home owned, onsite renewable power generation) and paid demand reduction (choosing to automatically turn things off and getting credit for it) are huge incentives for us to push for this. We just have to ensure the 21'ers don't set the rules.

Good info

Thanks for posting.

The same video posted by the same person has over 100,000 views: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9WeDtQ7sXHU&feature=relmfu

It is a bit longer, but is more detailed and includes link to website freedomtaker.com

Author of Buy Gold and Silver Safely
Next book: Illusions of Wealth - due out soon
Also writing book We the Serfs!

Michigan Group...

For all DP folks in Michigan...

http://michiganstopsmartmeters.com/

Contact David Sheldon

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RP 2012 and beyond....

mountaincat's picture

Bump

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