-12 votes

The Hornet's Nest: Bill O'Reilly gave it a whack!

My creation "persecution" thread has certainly stirred up some lively and passionate discussions ...

What I am doing here is further challenging professing Christians that the time has come(Thanks to Bill-O) to CHOOSE what side you stand on: young Earth creation, literal six 24-hour day creation - or - any and all the other positions that the visible church in America MUST take, if they don't want to become targets of an ever suspicious Federal government, Internal Revenue Service, and Department of Homeland security as "conformity" to every last violation of our nation's Bill of Rights is becoming inescapable!

I have been getting the "I am a Christian, and my salvation is not contingent upon believing in a literal 6-day creation" argument from a great many who I have mentioned this to; and so, I want to challenge that all the day long, until Bill O'Reilly hosts a national debate(that will draw MILLIONS of viewers) between six day creationist Christians like Ken Ham from Answers in Genesis, and other well-educated professional working/teaching folks like those I have made mention of here in my video - up against those Christians/clergy/scientists who SIDE with his progressive/allegorical view of the Bible - like a Hugh Ross.


Imprisoned Creation Evangelist Kent Hovind indeed did sow MANY seeds during the time this government "overlooked his finances" most likely in mocking fashion; until they saw how TRUTH about creation, false flag events like the Oklahoma City bombing, 9/11, our monetary system, false/counterfeit systems of the Christian religion, American history etc. can DRAW a crowd and lead to a CHANGE in people's lives!

Continue the debate; pick a side - mock me, or agree with me that believing in a six day creation is NOT harmful to a free society, and it is a SHAME for preachers/teachers/pastors of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to cast doubt upon the Bible's eyewitness claims regarding the creation and the flood.

Please: pressure Bill O'Reilly and Dr. Jeffress on their positions, won't you?...Very sobering words are upon us I believe, for the professing Christian; Galations 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

As I have advanced many times before; I believe the professing church is MARRYING the state once again right before our very eyes - the question is WHY? This adaptation to evolution theory and million and billions of years is only ONE compromise, in a list of many; such as gay marriage, accepting Federal funds to sponsor Head Start in a church etc. Traditionally, this is EXACTLY what happens just before the critically thinking masses crying out "HYPOCRISY" are silenced by the government, at the behest of the majority who do not want their moral positions and compromises challenged, nor their creature comforts disturbed!

We see the bankruptcy, both morally and fiscally; we KNOW most men lack a spine to stand up to the PTB, we also know they are pacified in vices common to men, and unwilling or unable to take their civic duty to CONTROL the government and it's institutions seriously - so here comes lowly little me, from below the poverty line; daily asking questions to provoke thought, challenging the system I have been ensnared in on purpose I believe - arising in knowledge and wisdom and understanding BEFORE it's too late for EVERYONE.

What I expect is about to happen, now that I clearly see the church in bed with the State(and the right-wing, statist-supporting media); is this, "Better just shut those people up over there, they're making quite a ruckus; why can't they just leave good enough alone and work within the system given to them?" Because that's NOT the American way, especially when "...a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism" has been clearly SHOWN to all by Ron Paul!

A great many of the prayers/petitions unto Almighty God that resulted in the founding of this Republic, most certainly included the hopes that guys like me would indeed rise up one day in defense of Him who interceded on behalf of our outnumbered colonists when they said "enough is enough!" Mere man, in his physical/intellectual strengths alone, is wholly unable to dismantle and discard this tyranny from us ALONE...evil has a source, and that menace is likewise a created being who must get permission from above before he can unleash his destructive forces and schemes upon persons BORN to be free, and purposed to flourish in liberty unhindered.

Bill O'Reilly does not know what/whom he is really attacking!

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What a crock of shi#!

The simple fact is nobody alive knows for sure. We have opinions and beliefs...but our beliefs DO NOT make something true. I wasn't consciously aware when our Creator made this world...so I truly don't know how he did it or not. I know what the Bible says...and equally important what it does not say. I know how the Bible is interpreted in various ways to support different views. I also know that when Genesis was authored...history was passed from generation to generation in the form of myths (tall-tales).

Personally, I strongly believe we live in a system that was created by an intelligent designer ("God"). Maybe we'll find out when we die. Until then, we can hope for the day that the Bill O viewership dies-off...which won't be long.

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
- President John F. Kennedy

as a creationist myself . . .

(and not entirely sure how the Creator did all the creating)--

I really don't like arguing this with anyone--

there are those who believe that the earth was created by God who have all sorts of diverse opinions about how *He* did it--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

My question to you is

Do you believe all species alive today existed during creation?

Or did god gradually create them from the ether over the last 6000 years?

Sometimes, we need a different perspective.....and laughter

I'll leave it to the professionals:

Mr. Deity and the Man:

Mr. Deity and the Woman:

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

The Design


Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń

"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

UPDATE; the conversation continues....

I saw it as BIG when it made it to my ears...and I'm gonna run with it....

Why? Because I want "division", no! I want MUCH debate, and a PUBLIC stand taken on the Epistemology of the most popular book ever written in human history...the book Ghandi called "dynamite"

We're dealing the epistemology of the book associated my faith, when a guy like Ken Ham of Answers in Genesis calls out publicly a John Piper, Mark Driscoll, a Dr. Jeffress for caving to evolution, essentially telling all who look up to them(on behalf of the STATE), "your Bible MUST conform to science or you will be out of business"...in direct opposition to Exodus 20:11 that clearly says "in six days"!

Here's another radio show taking up this mantle....


The atheists and agnostics, especially those in this Liberty movement who want to be DOGMATIC about the boundaries of our Constitution; should sit back and watch this thing play out...rather than down-vote me because you presume guys like me want Americans to live in a theocratic state!

There's much to be learned when it comes to becoming intolerant to.compromise! Is this NOT the battle we're currently fighting? We all know Obama is no Christian, should I really allow all these frauds off the hook when the misrepresent THE faith once delivered to the saints, that I am earnestly contending for?


how does this help to unify and motivate the liberty movement? I don't get it. Are you sure you're posting on the right site?


Institute For Creation Research

Salvation does not imply perfect understanding of doctrine, for then no one could be saved. God grants salvation when one repents of his sin and asks for forgiveness based on Christ's death for his sin. A sinner doesn't have to know anything about the age of the earth.

If you want excellent scientific research regarding creation, evolution, etc., spend some time on this website [http://www.icr.org/] and/or subscribe to their free monthly magazine called Acts & Facts.

The above excerpt is from the article: Is Belief In The Young Earth Necessary To Be A Christian?

Main site address for free magazine: http://www.icr.org/icr-magazines/

Excellent resource.

The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.
Ron Paul - The Revolution

Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms. Ron Paul


The "official" State position is the creation account in the Bible is NOT true; a Creator that powerful, mighty, and awesome WILL NOT be heard from slapping down our professing Christians holding political power as they militarily intervene and murder peoples, topple their governments, plunder their wealth, print money out of thin air and write IOU's to themselvesand others, promote abortion, promote homosexuality etc. etc. etc....that's why so much money to push the lies found/well refuted for years now in the textbooks...

Evolution is indeed a race-favoring worldview, where by death, things get BETTER....stupid...and the opposite of the 2nd law of thermodynamics, and we Christians can go on about that later amongst ourselves(remember, how BIG is the God who saved you from the wrath of God sinners deserve?)

Oh sure, we can blame parents and Christians for not sitting on textbook committees, but, what business is it of the State to support a religious worldview with tax dollars?

Now, the State media, is getting BIG celebrity Christians to cast their doubt upon the creation account on national television; and, they do it to remain relevant, but also for ECONOMIC reasons!

Creation might be an inter-church dialogue and debate...BUT...my position is, that.fundamentalist churches willing to cave on the six-day creation account will likewise be willing to tell their congregations to render unto Caesar your GUNS!

Compromise is my beef here...especially when the church is becoming a friend of the world, which according to Scripture, puts them at enmity with God.

We just want the lies out of the textbooks that tax dollars pay for...not creation in the schools....schools are for Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic(and the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and the RUCKUS Ron Paul has started!!!)


Whatever, dude.

Whatever, dude.

Silence isn't always golden....sometimes it's yellow.

"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." - Patrick Henry

All this type of "debate" does,

is spread distention. The fact that God is eternal, being forever NOW, makes it hard for us to understand the concept of no past, no future...only ever this one moment....outside of measured time.
Evolution IS Gods creation, in His own time, and through science we can all see how wondrous it is.
Every culture has it's Creation Story, and to a peoples who had no concept of Millions of years, "In the Beginning..." is just that, an event, put into simple picture story words, an abbreviated version of the real thing.

You know what doesn't make sense?

The idea that man slowly evolved from a lower form of primate. However, what makes perfect sense is that a woman was magically created from a bone.

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).


a truly genius creation

Anyone who takes the bible literally...

should probably be put in a straight jacket. Let's see... a talking snake, a guy who gathers two of every kind of animal on earth and builds an ark... need I go on?


What is so strange, if you start out with God and angels and spirits as your premise, with a talking creature? There are all kinds of explanations for it, if you are open to supernatural reality to begin with. If you start out with denying that as reality, then, of course, you will proceed to mock and scoff. Although, even atheists still believe in talking animals -- us. :)

As for gathering animals, Noah was just told to build the ark in order to receive the creatures; it doesn't say he gathered them. Again, the gathering evokes supernatural involvement, which again you will mock if you don't believe in that to begin with. You also have to consider the idea that the genetic information for many of today's species could have been contained within earlier representatives of their kinds, and so microevolution/natural selection since that time would account for the greater number of species. Not all of today's species would have to have been on the ark, either because they could survive outside it, or could be generated post-Flood. Those who scoff at the idea of the animals fitting need to go do a study on the dimensions and structure of the ark and consider how many animals it could contain. Also, larger animals could have been represented by younger, smaller individuals.

Again, if you are determined to scoff at the supernatural, then, of course you will scoff at these things. If you accept the supernatural, then you might be open to it.

"put in a straight jacket"

That's not very Libertarian of you, you sound like a Communist

Who gives a crap about O'Reilly?

Seriously... please do not grace the pages of this site with his name... he is irrelevant not to mention quite offensive to my intelligence.


Just thought I'd mention that Kent Hovind is an idiot with a child's grasp of science.

The rest I'm ignoring, but I'm compelled by every brain cell in my head to post about Kent Hovind whenever I see his name posted in an even slightly positive fashion.

Eric Hoffer

if that is true....

...I trust you'll debate him upon his release from prison?

You know what you are if you don't, don't you?

Care to cast a personal jab at me too for aligning myself in this "idiot's" camp?

I'm a big boy, I can take it...


I already debated Hovind 8-9 years ago. I don't really want to do it again. The last exercise was spent explaining physics to him and having him object to rudimentary physics and mathematics with the words, "God made it happen." I think the specific argument where he began insisting on that one was on how much water physically fell during The Flood and how the Ark would've survived the downpour. I'll try and find the essays for you if you'd like, but I believe the page that hosted them went down years ago.

His "challenge" is a joke, and so is he. That's why he won't debate actual physicists and hides under his bed whenever they come calling.

Eric Hoffer

It's interesting...

...that the Flood account actually doesn't suggest all the water came from the sky -- also mentions 'floodgates of the great deep' being opened (Gen. 7:11). So seems to be combination of waters from below and water from above.

I've no doubt heard your phone calls into his program then...

...but please show me where he turned down debating physicists...

I mean, if he is the joke that you insist he is; I see him as a man smart enough to go into hiding; due to public humiliation, shame, and embarrassment..

To this, all you can say I suspect is, "he was getting rich off suckers"; to which I would counter...considering also YOU are on this forum, and a supporter of Ron Paul's two presidential runs for the same reasons I am - Hobind pointed people to The Creature From Jeckyll Island, he pointed people to infowars.com after looking into the Oklahoma City bombing and 9/11 - WHY would such a fraud was this tyranny thrown off?

For our posterity's sake, or his own bank account?


May have, I'm not sure, it was honestly a long time ago when I was much angrier and an atheist. My faith aside, it doesn't change whether or not he's an idiot.

I don't know if hiding when you're ashamed and publicly known as a moron is anything more than a gut reflex. I am glad he has enough sense to be embarrassed though.

Sending people to Dr. Paul so they can learn isn't enough of a saving grace in my book. We can say it was a good move, but it's lost in a sea of scientific illiteracy so dark and vast that we'd need Captain Nemo to find the bottom.

Eric Hoffer

Not sure...

...why you insist on saying that a literal interpretation demands a young-earth view. Some literalists have that theory; other literalists see that an old-earth view still fits with the text as well. By the way, I am not dogmatically attached to either view, although I have come from the tradition of reading it through the young-earth lens. Also, not everyone who thinks the earth is old necessarily agrees with theistic biological evolution. I think a calm discussion with respect and grace is more appropriate to these questions than a 'my way or the highway' demand. I have no issue with you attempting to persuade others of the young-earth view; it's the manner in which it's done that I'm not sure about. Bill O' Reilly, to be sure, does not have the right manner for his arguments either -- it's too abrupt, abrasive, mocking, condescending, etc. I certainly don't get a sense of 'speaking truth in love' from him.


The young earth view could be correct, perhaps all the fossils and evidence of age was put here by god to amuse mankind, and/or to test our faith. I myself hew more to the old earth side of things, where a day in gods eye is maybe millions or billions of years long or even as short as the blink of an eye. After all, if god is omnipresent then he can make time do whatever he wants. Anyway, the point is that there need be no conflict between science and faith, since faith can find a way to accomodate ay scientific happening in the past. Personally I believe god created the animals by the process of evolution (indeed this step of creation continues as do the others), and mankind was created when god gave an animal (or whatever he was working with) free will, and a soul. Long story short, god is not static, nor is creation a one shot deal, but more of a vibrant creative process. Of course I also believe that god, being a loving god, seeks to provide for the needs of his people, and thus when things are really needed (say the earth is overpopulated and we need new worlds to settle) that god will provide a way. Either that or the free market will come up with a solution tot he problem. Then again maybe the free market is just god working through man to provide for our needs....see how it all works together and there is no real reason to divide ourselves?

Josh Brueggen
Jack of all Trades
Precinct Commiteeman Precinct 5 Rock Island Co Illinois


I think from a young-earth point of view, most would say that it's not a question of the fossils being made to look old, like some Hollywood movie set :), but a question of whether the Flood and other catastrophes could have produced the fossil record, geological layers, etc. in relatively short order, as opposed to uniformitarian processes over long periods of time.

Theologically, one of the sticking points for me when considering pre-Fall biological evolution is the idea of God sanctioning animal pain and suffering and death, before the curse in the garden. Are things 'very good' when your creatures are ripping each other to shreds with tooth and claw? How do you reconcile that aspect of it? Corrupting influence from a prior angelic fall? Something else?

I believe in an young earth..

roughly 6,000 years old. You should look at studies from Mt. Saint Helens, I think the petrified trees there would have been dated millions of years old if it hadn't happened right in front of us.

That evidence...

...for the power of catastrophic events to form things quickly is indeed stunning. I remember seeing something like a miniature 'Grand Canyon' also being formed in the vicinity through the short-term eruption.