23 votes

Its Time to Remove Guns From All Police Officers

and to do this, we must at the same time end the Drug War as well as the war on adult prostitution. All three must come to an end.

Ending the Drug War, the War on Prostitution and Removing Guns from the Police as a standard weapon will have major repercussions inside and outside our American culture. It will do three good things for society:

1) Decrease violence in America and across the globe and make communities more of a participant in its own policing; ie safer.

2) End the growing Nazi-spy-Police State and the alienation of citizens to its police. Police, unarmed with guns, will be forced to take a completely different tactic when apprehending and arresting. Indeed, all other tools such as Mase-spray and Baton-clubs and electric-Tasers should also be removed from the police's arsenal of weapons to use for apprehending civilians.

3) Police, unarmed, will now be forced to seek civilian compliance to all apprehensions. To do this, they will engage family and community in its apprehensions. An unarmed police means a whole new respect for civil rights, Miranda rights, warrants for arrest, and a new tactic that seeks cooperation and compliance. It requires the Police to pursue a policy of "slow apprehension" and "family-community" participation in the apprehension. This is a HUGE social-community change that CAN and WILL happen once we disarm our nation's Police.

Your thoughts?

Is this an entirely crazy idea?

Well one country does not allow its cops to carry guns, since the 19th century!

Find out more about this country, here:
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q...

All thoughts are welcome.

Treg




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Police

How many rights do they give up when they sign up? I don't think they can hire their own lawyers for example. I heard they have random checks of their computer activity? What about their medical records and tests? Are they open to all their superiors? What about their unlawful unions imo? How much cut do they get? Are they permitted to a political opinion or smoke cigarettes? How many vaccinations do they have to get?

donvino

One Country does not allow cops to carry guns...

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q...

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

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Ya know what's pretty

Ya know what's pretty strange? According to polling data, the police in the UK overwhelmingly do not want to be armed, while the public wishes that the police were armed.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19641398

Yes that is true about the Brits...

They like everyone else want to feel safe.

Instead, they should be asking WHAT makes us safe? What makes society LESS VIOLENT?

The answer to that is fast and cheap justice. So, has the speed and cost of justice improved? Its been plotted on a graph for all to see.

Take two different cases:
1) Say your bicycle is stolen from you.
2) Say someone punched you in the face.

Now, how fast and how cheap was it to get justice?

That is, Brits can and SHOULD go over all their records to learn how fast and how cheap was it to get justice when these two typical crimes occurred in 1950, 1955, 1960, 1965, ....2005, 2010...

Plot that data out on a graph. Then note how fast and cheap that Government is delivering Justice. I submit that the answer to the question, "What makes society LESS VIOLENT?" is how fast and cheap justice is. That product, justice, is what good government provides.

Treg

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

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Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Yes, remember - gun violence

Yes, remember - gun violence is a bad thing so we should disarm all police officers.

?! Treg, I understand the sentiment...

(I would start with the tasers, and mace, myself) However, a state's police force is far more accountable to the local people than, say, DHS or TSA folks are. They are easier to convince of our rights, as well. (Usually.) I think retraining them to respect the Bill of Rights and 'attempt to persuade' first, would go a long way. I grant that the police culture of 'don't rat out a fellow cop' may be a problem in some areas, but in those cases, we simply need some principled ones to set the others straight. They would then be far more likely to uphold our rights in a crisis than any federal agency.

But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

www.dailypaul.com/280083/jesus-christ-vic

What about some kind of money bomb

to put together a "reward fund" for cops that come forward to testify on their co-workers who violate their rights? Sucks that you have to offer to pay them but if they don't care about their job anymore (because they got a fat reward) maybe they would be more likely to step forward.

Not because they have any integrity... but heck if we get what we paid for what do we care?

I can totally imagine a private police force

that does not need weapons.

Bob Murphy had an interesting vision in some weird fiction book that he wrote (I forget the name of it). In the book, the police force was all women, in armor and helmets, and armed with nothing but nets. When they have to stop a criminal, they just swarm him and subdue him with nets. And everyone trusts them, cause they are women and not armed :)

“With laws shall our land be built up, but with lawlessness laid waste.”
-Njal Thorgeirsson

ecorob's picture

The biggest problem with ending the drug war...

Is that we will no longer be able to launder the money that comes in from it.

How will the banking cartel survive ONLY on digital money?

The banksters NEED this corrupted blood money to survive. You will never get the ptb to support this provision of your plan (although I sure wish you could)!

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

I Like Having My Sheriff Armed

He's an Oathkeeper. Besides, if you unarm the cops they will REALLY go tazer crazy. Bad enough as it is. How about they just stop hiring bullies and goons and start hiring people that really care about their duties? I hear that they are now turning down people that show a high IQ because they WANT hired goons, not real police. Easier to get them to do dirty work when the collapse happens. Just like generals being fired that won't fire on the public. I'm not making this stuff up.

skippy

Here we have an Anarchist blaiming guns for injustice.

Told ya. It's not government they fear. It's justice.

"Police, unarmed, will now be forced to seek civilian compliance to all apprehensions."

Nobody ever WANTS to face justice. Justice is something IMPOSED on you.

I did that? I blamed guns for injustice? I beg to differ.

I blamed something else, out of control power drunk cops.

And you said, "Nobody ever WANTS to face justice. Justice is something IMPOSED on you." --- well that much is true. But that point just begs the question, "how to go about imposing". I submit unarming the cops is the first step in the right direction. Why? Because it makes it harder to impose, as you say. That means community cooperation will be required/sought. That means justice may be better served.

Most of all, answering the question, "What decreases violence in society?" is one we should all do. I submit the answer is this: cheap and fast and forgiving justice. That is, its cheap to get justice, its fast, and its forgiving on the criminal. One way to look at it is to take two crimes. Say 1) bicycle theft, 2) Punched by someone. Then take all city police departments, poor over records sorting for just those two crimes. Plot the data starting in 1950, 1955, 1960, 1965,...2005, 2010. Plot the data against the scale in both terms of 3 criteria. How fast, how cheap, and how forgiving. I suspect you will find that the ratio to fast/cheap/forgiving makes for the most "peaceful" feeling city. Yet cities that justice takes a long time/ is costly/ and is unforgiving results in a city that 'doesn't feel safe'. Now you might want to ask, why 'forgiving'. I mean that in the following way. Penalty for stealing a bike, 1) cost of the bike times 5, 2) Cost of the bike times 10, 3) One year in jail. So from the above three, #1 is the most forgiving. Get my point.

Finally, you say its justice they fear.... well, to put a fine point on it... its fast, cheap, and ironically, forgiving justice they most fear. .... Now you might want to ask "why is that"? And that is a good question and the answer teases out from the data like this.... forgiving justice puts the criminal "back out there" with a reputation. That reputation follows them around. Meanwhile, "unforgiving justice" ie put away for say a whopping 5 years for stealing a bike, does not put the culprit "back out there" with a reputation for stealing bikes. Infact what has happened with our current state of unforgiving justice, ie long sentences for just about anything, is the OPPOSITE reputation has occurred where now the culprit has "prison cred" and "prison toughness" that people fear. Its a fear that people don't want to forgive and work with that person. Hence, unemployable excons ... again society does not "feel safer".

Think about it.

Treg

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Must We Always Label People?

Maybe this "anarchist" is just someone with a thought to share and isn't really trying to spread an agenda at all. Geez.

skippy

Michael Nystrom's picture

Labeling is for the convenience of the labeler

It allows the labeler to put the labelee into a nice, tight, manageable compartment - one that usually has little relationship to reality.

That is why I'm always surprised that people are so eager to self label.

"I'm an anarchist."
"I'm an anarcho liberal."
"I'm a paleo neocon."

I guess it gives people a sense of identity.

It even gives the other-labelers a sense of identity, by contrast.

"OMG! You're a paleo neocon! You guys suck!"

lol

All art is only done by the individual. The individual is all you ever have, and all schools only serve to classify their members as failures. E.H.

"I guess it gives people a sense of identity."

One of "the fools" greatest redeeming qualities is to call it as they see it. In a world built on lies, to do so can be foolish.

How about

we just arm everyone else?

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."

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Local law enforcement is an ally

You shouldn't even joke about disarming local police, even state police, let alone honestly suggest it. That would be the golden ticket for a tyrannical Federal Government. In reality, local law enforcement is part of our communities; and therefore, they honestly strive to protect and perserve their homes and neighborhoods, their friends and families.

The cops in my small Jersey town all live in or very close to the town in which they serve. They are friends of many homeowners and business owners; their children go to district schools; they know many people personally; and, although there is minor corruption and misuse of power, most of them serve with a heartfelt and honest desire to do what they believe is right.

With that said, should tyranny take its full form, armed local law enforcement is the best civilian militia most communities have, and the Federal Government will seek to minimize their power and authority just like they will for badgeless citizens. They would have them disarmed and overpowered by military authorities.

Ultimately, local law enforcement is an ally of the people. Just look at how many towns have said they will not participate in enforcing new Federal gun regulation. Now, imagine that type of alligance to the the people and the Constitution amplified in a time of war on US soil, whether it be of foreign or domestic origin.

Your tilt on the Fed's moving in is in error.

The Fed's will use the numerous alphabet agencies who are already in league with local departments. FBI, ATF, DHS,FEMA and their accompanying trigger happy, steroid saturated, shaven headed cowboy types that will lead the vanguard and if the resistance is too great then perhaps you might see the National Guard called upon to "restore" order. It will be an insidious creep that will bring the water to a boil and the first patriots to stand up to it will be largely regarded to as crackpot terrorist.

If not us than who?

You need to understand what you're dealing with:

Anarchists.

Local law enforcement officers are an Anarchists enemy for the same reason a top down authoritarian police state is their enemy. The law is their enemy and they reject the very idea of justice. There's no law or government they support. They would turn a blind eye to a slaver and a butcher.

"Police, unarmed, will now be forced to seek civilian compliance to all apprehensions."

Anarchists are victims of causality blaming injustice on guns, government and law enforcement rather than those who begged for injustice in the first place. An Anarchist is WORTHLESS to liberty. They don't know the root of injustice, mans covetous nature, nor will they defend liberty with force, serve justice.

A peace officer is somebody who defends your liberty and even local law enforcement can only be a peace officer when the principle a local law defends is the principle of self ownership; liberty.

An Anarchist is worthless to their own principles because as I said; nobody ever wants to face justice. Justice is imposed on covetous people.

When the law is unjust, taking liberty with force, those who enforce it serve injustice. When the people become a covetous mob of looters, injustice will emanate from both the bottom up and the top down. When what the people want is injustice, there is no hope and no political solution, least of all Anarchy.

JFK, speaking on secret societies: "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on 'covet means' to further it's sphere of influence, on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources in the building of a tightly knit highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations. Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned. No secret is revealed. That is why the Athenian lawmaker Solon decreed it a crime for any citizen to shrink from controversy."

What about England?

Is it a joke that they have not been armed since the 19th century?

Just a thought.

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
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No.7's picture

No

Cops are people, they have rights. Taking guns from anyone is wrong, no matter how much you dislike them.

I guarantee more good has come from cops having guns than bad.

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson

Cops do not have rights

while on duty. They have privileges and duties. If you don't want to give up your gun... don't be a cop.

No.7's picture

Yes they do

A cop is a people and the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. You don't lose your status as a people when you clock in.

This is like saying you wan't freedom for yourself but all those crazy people who disagree with you shouldn't be free.

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson

ok, how about we don't pay for their guns

BYOG!

It is libertarian to take the cops' guns

If a thief is in possession of stolen property, is it oaky to take it away from him? Yes.

A cop is in possession of guns that they did not purchase with their money. It was purchased with stolen money (taxes).

No.7's picture

Now that's a thought

I like the thought, but I still favor armed cops because I believe in the 2nd Amendment. Police Officers have to do some sketchy shiz and be around crazy people a lot. They need guns just as badly as anyone else if not more because of the dangerous situations they are called to.

A Police Officer is often an inspired man serving his community and doing his job to support his family. The Police Officers aren't thieves but are beneficiaries of IRS stealing from our incomes. One can paint a very different picture of a police officer, but everyone knows that bad cop stories go viral like bad gun stories and good cop stories go nowhere like good gun stories.

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson

Good point

So they would have to be volunteers. Pay for the guns. Sew their own uniforms. Work for free.

Senator Peter Schiff 2016

Yes and not many cops would work for free

that had no principles. Problem solved.

cut of the same cloth

75% of the fire departments in the U.S are staffed all volunteer. Yup 3 out of 4 fire fighters in this country do not get a dime of pay for their service. They leave a warm bed to cut drunk driving victims out of wreckage on the interstate at 3 am, crawl on their belly through smoke and flame to rescue a pet from a burning building, rescue someone trapped in raging flood waters, all for zero pay. I imagine the same thing that drives those individuals to do that, would also drive individuals similarly to do volunteer police work.

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