7 votes

Constitutionality of truancy laws?

First, please don't go into how I'm wrong for having my kids in public school. Many of you have been awake for much longer than me and I already intend for this to be their last year in any public school. Next year we plan to start un-schooling.

Here's a link to a pdf which contains the truancy laws which the entire state uses.

Some background:
Three of my children attend a very small (600 K-12) school which I believe to be the best of the best as far as public education goes. My 8yo has never enjoyed school or even shown very much interest in learning to read, do math, etc. Compared to my other children she is very laid back and uninterested in anything she sees to be "educational." She is also MUCH less responsible than my other girls (even the 2 who are younger than her).

Since she hates going to school she often claims to feel bad when she doesn't and has become REALLY good at faking being sick. Additionally, she gets frequent ear infections which cause her to run fever and this year she has had bronchitis twice.

Both times she had bronchitis she missed 3 days and, for some reason, the school is saying they never received her medical excuses. There are a few other days as well and I am certain that I sent the excuses we got from the doctor in her folder to the school. However, I don't know if she misplaced them when sorting papers from her folders into the appropriate boxes in the morning or if they were lost some other way (or by some other person). I'm assuming it was her because she misplaced several last year which resulted in me having to attend an early warning meeting with a truancy judge last June.

OK, the reason I am asking advice is because last year the truancy judge made it clear that he didn't mind putting parents in jail for 10-60 days when they have to see him for a 2nd "offense." I am thinking that this can't possibly be constitutional considering this is MY child who I gave birth to and I decided she needed to stay home. They are REFUSING to accept copies of the medical excuses from the doctors office because it has been longer than 3 days since she returned to school. What would you do in this situation? I'm sure I'll end up back in juvenile court for truancy... how would you challenge this?

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How would you challenge

How would you challenge this?

Well there is the truth, which no one really wants to talk about because to acknowledge it means no one can force other people to do things for any deemed reason.

1. Do not accept mail from anyone you don't know and are not doing business with. Return it to sender even if it is some government agency you have heard of unless you have already have a contract with it.

2. Ask for evidence of the facts that statutes or code applies to you. I suggest learning about rules of evidence and the importance of first hand knowledge when used to establish a fact. Marc Stevens talks about this particular argument if you don't like freeman but its all the same thing. Constitutions and decrees of legislatures are rules applicable to governments, its agents, and assigns.

3. Whenever some so called clown in a suit makes a decision or determination demand the facts relied upon in writing to verify the abuse of discretion or excess of jurisdiction.

The truth of the matter is that unless you are being paid to perform a function of government or receiving a government benefit no statute or code applies to you. This is what it means in the Declaration of Independence consent of the governed. It means you get to choose when to put a Citizen title to use and when it is being used there is evidence of its use.

Now if they are still going to use violence against you and you are not prepared to protect your life, liberty, or property up to and including death then you don't actually believe in your life, liberty, or property. You can try to sue in rigged government courts. You can try to reconvene a grand jury of the people. You can try to affect political change. If you aren't going to actually defend your life liberty or property all one can do is bitch. If that is the case you are like 99%+ of Americans and might as well ask to lick their boots of whomever is trespassing against you when they have you on the ground.

Thank you,

You've given me a good bit of info to research. Thanks!

Ron Paul convert from the Heart of Dixie

That punishment sounds cruel

That punishment sounds cruel & unusual, way excessive in comparison to the "crime." The 8th Amendment covers this & the US Supreme Court has ruled that the 8th's provision on cruel & unusual punishment applies to the States. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_...

On another note, this is why we have State & local governments instead of everything under the central government: choices. Why not choose to support another jurisdiction (with your tax dollars, money spent into the local economy) by moving away from an area that employs judges like this who seem to hate the citizens. Also, you never know... the judge might be like the two Judges in PA who were getting kickbacks for sending kids off to youth style prisons.


Thank you,

I also find it interesting that section 35 of my states constitution says quote: That the sole object and only legitimate end of government is to protect the citizen in the enjoyment of life, liberty, and property, and when the government assumes other functions it is usurpation and oppression.

Ron Paul convert from the Heart of Dixie


I'm not going to tell you that you should be home schooling, just what we did. My son has never liked the rigid confines of the public school system, they always wanted to say he had attention deficit non-sense and wanted us to have him tested. We on the other hand knew better than that crap and always refused. My son was in the gifted program and was much sharper than most in his class but he didn't like school. I often let him stay home when he said he didn't feel good and eventually we got in trouble for the truancy crap. We went to court once, they said blah, blah, blah he has to be in school and made a threat like they did to you.

We had been thinking of home schooling for a while, well it wasn't too many months later that we were being called before a judge again for truancy. Well what they didn't know is that we had already done everything we needed to pull him from the school and start home schooling. We pulled him out about a week before the court date, I told the principal he would no longer be attending the school. He asked where he was going to be attending. I told him it was none of his business and I would see him in court. When the court date came we went stood in front of the judge, the judge asked why my son wasn't in school, I told her he was being home schooled now and that the paperwork had been filed. The principal and the county attorney tried to ask the judge for some kind of supervision testing crap where they would test him every so often to make sure he was keeping up with his class. I knew they would pull this trick and I knew there was no law that said we had to comply with it, so we simply refused. That was the end of that, the case was dismissed and we went home happy knowing we never had to deal with that school ever again. So if your ready to home school, go ahead and take the plunge. Of course check your state laws on homeschooling to see what has to be filed if anything.

The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government ... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it-Andrew Jackson

Thank you,

Honestly, this is most likely what I will do.

Ron Paul convert from the Heart of Dixie

I don't know what you should do,

but I'm glad you are getting rid of those public school fools. Join HSLDA this summer.

Damn girl

Your situation really sucks. I'm sorry :(

How soon after your daughter missed school did they ask for the doctor's notes? If they're saying they cannot accept them because it's been longer than 3 days since she returned but they did not tell you until after those 3 days that they hadn't received them and needed the documentation then that is a load of bullshit. If you sent the notes with your daughter and were unaware that they had not been received by the school and they didn't say anything until it was too late for you then how were you to know? I'm not sure if contacting HSLDA would help at all. They offer legal advice for homeschoolers who are members with them. Membership requires dues payment and I don't know if they'd be able to help with your kids currently being in public school, but it might not hurt to contact them to see if they know anywhere you could go for help.

The whole concept of compulsory education and truancy is bullshit in my opinion. After reading about Maria Montessori and John Taylor Gatto I have lost all faith in the current method of education. I'm in the same boat as you are as far as being more recently awake. This will be my son's last year in public school as well. You might consider getting a membership with HSLDA even if they can't help you with your current problem because you never know if school officials might harass you once you start unschooling due to your past problems with them and the truancy crap.

Keep your head up and keep us posted!

I'm reaching up and reaching out.
I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
Spiral out.

They sent a note home

With her report card yesterday and I went to talk to them today. I was told that the handbook makes it clear you have 3 days only and IF they had received them they would be noted in the computer and placed in her file.

I told them that I know I did get and send excuses for at least 8 of the days and they said they didn't get them so nothing can be done now.

Ron Paul convert from the Heart of Dixie

That is some sneaky crap

That is some sneaky crap right there. They ought to have notified you that they had not received a doctor's note upon her return to school. Surely they should be able to understand that if you sent them and assumed that they received them because they never notified you otherwise it could just be an honest case of misplaced papers. It's absolutely asinine that they won't accept documentation from the doctor now that it's outside of their arbitrary 3 day period. Almost seems as though they waited until it was too late to put you in the position you're in now, like they're unwilling to give you the benefit of the doubt. Typical sadistic bureaucratic horse shit. Is there any reason for you to think the school might personally have it out for you or view you as problematic and want to "teach you a lesson" or something?

I'm reaching up and reaching out.
I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
Spiral out.

I can understand

them not taking a parent excuse this late but you would think a medical excuse would be acceptable...

Ron Paul convert from the Heart of Dixie

Yeah for sure

The fact that you have documentation from the doctor to back you up should alleviate any of their concerns. Who knows why they're being such jerks about it. Good luck girl, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you :)

I'm reaching up and reaching out.
I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
Spiral out.

Not necessarily

I believe that most likely my daughter misplaced the excuses. The only time I've had any kind of issue with anyone there was when my oldest daughter was "dating" (she doesn't actually go out on dates yet because she's only 13) a guy 3 years older than her and the school counselor told the guy that they could not date because they would have to report him to the DA and he could be charged as a "sex offender." At that point I went down there and informed them that their role was as educators and they were not to make any efforts to try to over-rule the decisions that I make as a parent. It didn't get extremely ugly, but they had no question where I stood when I left.

Ron Paul convert from the Heart of Dixie

I'm pretty sure it's all

I'm pretty sure it's all about the MONEY the school looses big bucks when kids miss school, I think that's all they care about & test scores.

No.7's picture

That's true, but truancy is also about teaching punctuality

You can get a good education in a public school if you want it. Quality of education is more dependent on individual effort than a particular school. Every school has good and bad teachers, but there are also millions of great teachers on YouTube.

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson