-10 votes

UPDATE: How Would We Handle the Unintended Consequences of Banning Abortion?

UPDATE:
I'm done defending facts and asking questions on this thread. Unfortunately, very few facts were given by the "pro-lifers" who want government intervention into people's private lives. It's obvious that people are just too *comfortable* with their own beliefs and are unable or unwilling to think beyond them. This was a very valid question framed in the context of reality, any reasonable person can see that. My last point would be this...not only would Banning Abortion create MORE GOVERNMENT and MORE GOVERNMENT DEPENDENCY it would also INCREASE CRIME. These are the *facts* regardless of how uncomfortable they make you feel.


__________________________________________________________________
This thread is not about the morality of abortion, there's another thread for that.

http://www.dailypaul.com/278723/rand-paul-introduces-life-at...

Since Roe v. Wade there have been an estimated 55 million abortions.

If all of those babies were "saved" ...

Who would take care of them if the families couldn't?

Should crack addicts and unfit mothers be forced by the state to give birth?

Basically, in the long run, aren't we just creating more government dependency if we force mothers to have babies that they can't take care of?



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I'm not condoning it,

far from it, but why do you suppose the government allowed 21 million illegals, most of them Roman Catholics, to enter the country. Too bad the social engineer genius's haven't figured out a way to get them all to pay into SS and taxes. Abortion has taken many millions of low wage earners off the market and the immigration issue is their half assed way to correct the imbalance.

There are no politicians or bankers in foxholes.

Sierra (pretty name btw!) Why not quit pushing YOUR agenda? lol

BTW Do you have anything to add to this discussion except for preaching and judgement??

I get it. Abortion is a difficult complicated subject but at least try and take a crack at answering the questions posed!

I think you may be smart but your emotions are obviously overpowering your brain on these social issues for some reason.

Sanctity of Life

sanctity
The state or quality of being holy, sacred, or saintly.
Ultimate importance and inviolability.

life
A distinctive characteristic of a living organism from dead organism or non-living thing, as specifically distinguished by the capacity to grow, metabolize, respond to stimuli.

The arguments for abortion used to center around whether or not a fetus was actually a living being.

When the life of a fetus could no longer be debated the rationale shifted to viability.

As advancements in neonatal care drastically reduced the time from conception to viability, reason retreated further still.

Until at last, when no scientific justifications for their cruel and barbarous actions remained, those who would murder the most innocent among us for profit and convenience stepped boldly into the light of day.

The argument is no longer about life. With the exception of hypothetical valuations concerning the quality of a life yet born, a relative unknown used merely for conjecture, the unborn child is of little or no concern.

But rather, the life once considered sacred, growing in the supposed safety of it's mother's womb, is now spoken of in parasitical terms, much like a virus, something to be eradicated with expedience, unworthy of emotional considersation or attachment, stripped of any spiritual value or significance.

The origins of the modern abortion industry are well established, as are the motivations behind it.
http://www.blackgenocide.org/sanger.html

But child murder did not originate with Margeret Sanger and her bloodthirsty band of bigots.

Once a common practice in the ancient pagan cultures of the world, in this Godless vacuum of modern society, child sacrifice has made a bold and bloody return. We kill our children for profit. We kill our children for convenience. Dressed up in whatever fashionable garment of reason the most philosophical of us can imagine, the abortionist is nothing more than a black robed, modern day priest of Baal.

God have mercy on us all, as individuals and as a nation. We are worthy of the harshest of judgments.

πολλα γαρ πταιομεν απαντες ει τις εν λογω ου πταιει ουτος τελειος ανηρ δυνατος χαλιναγωγησαι και ολον το σωμα

Very Well Put!

Indeed in "this Godless vacuum of modern society", we have only begun to reap the rewards. What modern civilization(sic) has willingly embraced in doing away with 55 million innocent souls over the past 40 years, vicious "death squads" could only dream of accomplishing!

"Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom." Patrick Henry

I find it amazing

Folks here will use arguments that stir strong emotion instead of simply reading and applying the Constitution. Reminds me of a bunch of folks who work on a hill somewhere.

The abortion "issue" is settled by the Fifth Amendment "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person
be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb
; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be
deprived
of life, liberty, or property, without
due process
of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."
Exactly what capital or otherwise infamous crime is an unborn child going to be indicted on that he or she may loose its life over?

Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

John Adams

Economic incentive for sterilization...

...is one idea, but libertarians tend to not get serious about the consequences of their own ideas.

The truth is (and this post is good) abortion is legal because it is, overall, eugenic. Upper Bell Curve uses Birth Control technology, lower Bell Curve uses the welfare system--and the majority of abortions come from the lower Bell Curve. Abortion is population control, and like unskilled labor/lower Bell Curve immigration, barring getting rid of the welfare state first, it is right to ask the ask the question the poster is asking.

Longtime Internet Poster

55 million babies spared....

....plus the principles of Liberty = UNTOLD SUSTAINED PROSPERITY and good will to all nations!!!!

People just can't do the math ... Murdering the MOST innocent invites.God's wrath ...

And here we are; beyond forgiveness, enduring the consequences....soon, it will be a crime punishable by death to laud the laws of our Creator....

Does anyone really think God is sweeping this deliberate POLICY, and four decades of tacit acceptance of it(while mocking and dismissing Bible-thumpers as loons for not being "progressives") under the rug?

The Bible says that blood has a VOICE; we best be in fear of God, and individuals guilty of being on the wrong side of this issue best repent, in hopes God may spare your life through the impending doom and collapse...

It's sick that we look at human beings as an accounting problem, and a financial burden; how sad and pathetic....we don't deserve Liberty if that's how much we value human souls!

George Washington 101: You're NO PATRIOT if you label to subvert the indispensable supports of religion and morality I've about had it with the Godless libertarians and the progressives, let alone the caving hypocritical Republicans, I'll stand ALONE if I have to....because I have only ONE judge whom I must fear...

oops! should read:

LABOR TO SUBVERT ... stupid phone auto-spell-assumption-tool-thingy!#!

Why the RAGE?

Why can't you be content in knowing that the creator of the universe is on *your* side and will eventually right all these "wrongs"?

I mean that alone should make you feel great right?

Why the RAGE? --

"I've about had it with the Godless libertarians and the progressives, let alone the caving hypocritical Republicans, I'll stand ALONE if I have to....because I have only ONE judge whom I must fear..."

eventually???

He is doing it now...and guys like me don't get the support of libertarians or progressives because of my STRONG stand on moral issues...even though they know full well, when my name is on the ballot in the general election, there's only ONE with the God-given courage to tell the higher magistrates BACK OFF in the name of the people....who want their liberty protected..

There's a BIGGER battle under this surface movement, and every man will be individually TESTED...

I just took the opportunity to vent a little.that's all

you are a little "out there" for my tastes

I just hope you aren't one of the violent fundamentalist...

I'd hate to be around you if the SHTF and you think it's the "end times"

I'm no end-timer!

I know the fraud of the Left Behind series....

New evangelicals...evan-jellyfish...not.my crowd...they're in the zionist trap for survival...

Seriously, don't assume....ASK....

All good! I didn't assume.

Please see above.

I say "I *hope* you aren't....*if* ...you think..."

My statement is based on your comments, and I'm not assuming anything you haven't told me already.

Take care.

Market Value of babies...

I have a friend that just paid $20,000 to adopt a baby. Yikes! Seems value of babies is quite high! What would we do with all those babies?

Since people in my church adopt a lot of children,

we have an adoption fund to help with the cost.

"We" shouldn't handle it.

"We" shouldn't handle it. Individuals should take it upon themselves as they feel compelled to do so. The state should have no role in social welfare, it should be solely an institution that concerns itself with administering justice for interpersonal and international encroachments.

500 Million Plus aborted in China in the last 30 years

Everything is fine.

BUT China will have to face the Judgement of God over this amongst other things. If I were a Chinese government person I would be very concerned.

Over 17 million a year and over 40K a day >:

China is the ultimate killing machine imo.

donvino

I just posted this in another thread:

If Roe v Wade is overturned then the death penalty should also be abolished in all states. Right to life should apply to all ages.

The foundational principle is the shedding

of innocent blood. Killing babies is the shedding of innocent blood. Executing a convicted murderer is not that at all, it is a life for a life.

It's still a life though.

If you rule on right to life you should rule on the other. Life in prison is punishment. Murder is against the law. If a murderer gets a death penalty then the murdering mother and doctor should also get a death penalty. If abortion is legal, then the death penalty should be legal.

I think the mothers should be exempt.

Otherwise, how are you going to collect evidence and make a case against them? Require monthly tests and surveillance of pregnancies? What if there is a miscarriage and some busybody reports the mother for a secret abortion? It could get crazy. Treat the mother and child as one- both deserve protection and depend on the other. God will sort things out with the mother later.

Go after the paid hit men who make a living killing. And stop the manufacture of poisons intended to kill.

the birth control Review volumes 1 through 3 edited by Margaret

Sanger. More children from the fit less from the unfit is the cheif issue in birth control. The emphasis is on control rather then prevention: http://books.google.com/books?id=k0IsAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA3-PA3&dq=...
Birth Control Review, Volumes 5-6 Margaret Sanger editor: Birth Control: to create a race of thoroughbreds: http://books.google.com/books?id=qAkiAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA56&dq=%22...
Correspondence between Sanger and McCormick: Where the present need of financial support is most needed, and B. What the present prospects are in contraceptive research. I will answer B. first because I consider that the world and almost our civilization for the next twenty-five years, is going to depend upon a simple, cheap, safe contraceptive to be used in poverty stricken slums, jungles, and among the most ignorant people. Even this will not be sufficient, because I believe that now, immediately, there should be national sterilization for certain dysgenic types of our population who are being encouraged to breed and would die out were the government not feeding them. Contraceptive research needs tremendous financial support: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:zhSYABm...

jhon

What are the unintended consequences

of abortion?

So let us take this logic a

So let us take this logic a step further.... Why not just murder drug addicts? This would not only cure your problem of government welfare raised children it would prevent the expense of government funded abortion. Why only treat half of your problem? Kill the mother as well and be rid of twice the dependency. I hope you can see the danger in that line of logic.

What does Sanger have to do with any of this??

Abortion isn't a conspiracy...It's been around ever since women were having babies.

Why create more suffering by bringing a baby into the world that you can't afford?

All so the government can pick up the tab?

Want to prevent abortion so bad?

Go hand out condoms. Problem solved.

Abortion should be handled

Abortion should be handled like any other violent crime (state level). Killings (murders and manslaughters) are handled at the state level. The fact that a specific exception is made in the case of killing unborn, defenseless children is thoroughly disgusting.

Simple Facts and Plain Arguments
A common sense take on politics and current events.

www.simplefactsplainarguments.com

Should miscarriages be investigated as possible crimes?

Should autopsies be conducted on all fetuses, and toxicology reports conducted on all mothers to make sure they didn't ingest any abortion inducing substances? Are you going to bring manslaughter charges against a mother who losses a baby do to unnecessary strenuous activity, or other high risk activities?

I'm concerned about this too.

That is why I say there should be an exemption for mothers.

Lost?

Nancy Pelosi and Janeane Garofalo normally don't post on Daily Paul.

Fifty five million abortions were made possible by a growing immoral society that used the govt to make taking life respectable, which in turn rapidly encouraged an even greater immoral society.