-10 votes

UPDATE: How Would We Handle the Unintended Consequences of Banning Abortion?

UPDATE:
I'm done defending facts and asking questions on this thread. Unfortunately, very few facts were given by the "pro-lifers" who want government intervention into people's private lives. It's obvious that people are just too *comfortable* with their own beliefs and are unable or unwilling to think beyond them. This was a very valid question framed in the context of reality, any reasonable person can see that. My last point would be this...not only would Banning Abortion create MORE GOVERNMENT and MORE GOVERNMENT DEPENDENCY it would also INCREASE CRIME. These are the *facts* regardless of how uncomfortable they make you feel.


__________________________________________________________________
This thread is not about the morality of abortion, there's another thread for that.

http://www.dailypaul.com/278723/rand-paul-introduces-life-at...

Since Roe v. Wade there have been an estimated 55 million abortions.

If all of those babies were "saved" ...

Who would take care of them if the families couldn't?

Should crack addicts and unfit mothers be forced by the state to give birth?

Basically, in the long run, aren't we just creating more government dependency if we force mothers to have babies that they can't take care of?

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What if? What if? What if? What if?

Stop with the excuses.

Keep your legs closed.
Keep your monster in it's pants.

You wanna play.... be responsible.

It's a no brainer my friend.

but the government ends up "being responsible" in the end

this is a real scenario that happens everyday.

it's not just some "what if"

BTW tell me...

Why should my taxes go to support some baby that someone had but couldn't afford?

they shouldn't

certainly not a a federal or even state level. Such things were taken care of at a community level prior to the all powerful government. The solution is responsibility on a personal, and if that fails a local community level.

Josh Brueggen
Engineer
Entrepreneur
Gardener
Jack of all Trades
Precinct Commiteeman Precinct 5 Rock Island Co Illinois

but they do.

reality and the "ideal" are two very different things. I can discuss theory too but the fact is that the government *IS* on the hook for this stuff and we pay for it collectively through taxes and as a society.

wierd

weird

What would occur to the abortion rate

if mandatory sterilization was a prerequisite of being able to obtain one? Rather drastic but so is the dismemberment and disembowelment of small humans. One thing for certain, it would end any recidivism.

There are no politicians or bankers in foxholes.

not the worst idea I ahve ever heard

Certainly not ideal, but if you need to off an innocent human, then you lose your right (through you obvious lack of compassion making you unfit to be a parent??) to have more children. I'd make sure that the father is located as well, he needs to know he'll be firing blanks in the future as well if he can't shoulder the responsibility of keeping it in his pants, or dealing with the consequences of his failure to do so.

Josh Brueggen
Engineer
Entrepreneur
Gardener
Jack of all Trades
Precinct Commiteeman Precinct 5 Rock Island Co Illinois

If you could pin the guy down

and have no doubt he was the responsible party I'd say go for it but human nature being what it is I'd not take a chance on just a woman's word. False accusations against the last guy to piss her off would be rampant. If there is a God and he judges a society on how it treats it's most helpless we are all in for a world of hell.

There are no politicians or bankers in foxholes.

The Abortion Enforcement Agnecy

Abortion Czars

Black Market Abortion Clinics

Abortion Classification

All the time and money trying to get an Amendment passed that is not favorable to about half the country.

Another 50,000,000 hollow points will need to be purchased.

Dependents who are dependent upon others who are dependent upon the State. Great Great Granddependents.

Question: Why don't we just outlaw premarital sex or unprotected sex. Making them illegal will fix the problem Right?

Have the Drug laws worked? Have the Drunk Driving laws worked?

Who is going to go around making sure Morning After Pills aren't taken?

How about all the unwanted children growing up in homes with little means to care for them or raise them? How about all the children who turn to prostitution or drugs as a means to escape worse conditions?

Love your post. Pro-Lifers, Pro-anythingers really, rarely look at the perceived problem in a holistic manner, all too often it is easier to whine and bitch from the couch and throw someone else's money at the problem via their "Representative".

I don't care for abortion, especially as a means of post contraception, but getting Gov't involved will be little more than paving the road to hell with good intentions, and making the rest of us pay for it.

thanks!

I don't like abortions either yet I am a "commie scum liberal rat bastard" or whatever, for asking what the solution is to this...sometimes ya gotta laugh at the absurdity on here

Right there with ya!

(I also have been called something like a "commie scum liberal rat bastard" for questioning legal marriage! ; ) You see my last response there?)

This is an important post you've made. Much appreciated. And it is sad how knee-jerk, emotional reactions cloud people's abilities to think through--let alone consider--the whole host of problems which would result from a complete ban.

Whatever we as a society decide to do per this issue, we must think carefully about the consequences and be prepared to engage as constructively as is possible.

What would the Founders do?

I'll have to check out your response you commie scum...lol

I remember you. If I remember, I think I may have taken offense to your POV but don't think that was your intention.

I take marriage equality very seriously and may have misunderstood/judged you instead of trying to see your point.

Basically, I have been told over and over again that the government shouldn't be in the marriage business so I have no right to one....all the while the government IS in the marriage business and exclude me and my partner. If I remember I lumped your post into that collective pile of replies, as to "why it's ok that Im discriminated against"

I'll try and check out that thread again and respond....

Geez

All this productive talk from both you commie scumbags just makes me sick. Don't you know we're supposed to argue everything in black and white?! ;)

I know it's probably not much of a consolation, but try to take some solace in the fact that the government issuing marriage licenses to goofy bimbos like that Courtney Stodden character who wed an actor old enough to be her father (nearly GRANDfather, actually) has pretty much taken any real meaning out of it even for us heteros.

I'm reaching up and reaching out.
I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
Spiral out.

Consequences

These "consequences" are humans. They shouldn't be thrown in dumpsters, have their heads cracked open and brains vacuumed out. Sucked out of their mothers womb by a vacuum blender or burned alive by acids. You are a "consequence" of two other humans. You deserved life, just like all the other consequences. The SAD part is the murder of the unborn and the pathetic and virtually psychotic verbal nonsense people use to hide the evil of it. These word games only further cheapen the life that the death culture is already destroying. Who deserves freedom, that doesn't also deserve life??

I'm a human

and I don't care to be forced to pay for Abortion Enforcement and the host of other GOOD INTENTIONS that pave the road to hell.

You don't actually care for all the aborted humans. You think you do, but in practice all you do is feel bad for them. Have you stood down at the abortion clinic offering to pay for the prenatal care and adoption afterwards? Have you ever followed up on a child that was not aborted to see if they are being treated with love and care?

When you 'care' for others with other people's time and money it is not you that is CARING, it is you forcing others to carry the cost of your pretend caring through intimidation and extortion.

You think ObamaCare is a nightmare? Wait till the Central Planners get hold of the Authority over Birth/Life.

Central Planning = Central Authority = Central Ownership. If someone assumes the responsibility to plan a Life, then they must assume the Authority to do so. If they have Authority over said Life, then they in practice OWN said life.

You want to be responsible for 50 million lives, then take the FULL responsibility and leave this human out of it. I don't care to pay for abortions and I don't care to pay to prevent them.

Put YOUR money where your feelings are, get down to the abortion clinic, and start showing just how altruistic YOU are. Start a Foundation that offers women with unwanted pregnancies incentives to carry the child full term to adoption. Are there enough like you to do it? I think there probably is, y'all can reap all the glory of saving millions of lives without pushing the cost onto the rest of us.

If you want to make life less Cheap, DO NOT PUT IT IN THE HANDS OF CENTRAL PLANNERS.

One-year anniversary TODAY

A year ago today, I co-founded an organization in our town that provides immediate, practical assistance to pregnant women. No income restrictions, no questions asked beyond what can we do. It has also been the primary recipient of my donations for the past year and will continue to be. We've served many in the past year, and the numbers are growing. Pro-life people MUST take responsibility (financial, etc.) to help women with unintended pregnancies, or we must understand that they will see abortion as their only "choice."

Bump

Now if others who have your passion will do the same, and Educations that help children become Self Reliant were to be put into place, I guarantee we all can cut abortions in half. Once there, other non-coercive avenues will likely appear to get another half resolved.

I do not believe that Gov't intervention is the answer. Gov't cannot force morality. It can't stop murder, drug abuse, or rape either.

Are you

Are you in favor of removing laws against murder and rape? Is that just government intervention? You say that I don't care until I stand down there at the abortion clinic and change it. I'm responsible for my kids, I love my kids, I see the tragedy of the death of children. I don't have to be down there paying for it to care. That is ridiculous. What I want is for something morally evil to be stopped and for people to recognize it. This is not an issue of government intervention, that is ridiculous, it is an issue of preserving life. Your murder and rape examples are good ones, we can't stop them, because people have a predilection toward evil, but we can say that they have no place in our society and that we value life by passing laws to stop them and dissuade people from doing them and we do, and YOU would too.

Downvoted?

Downvoted for helping to pay for unintended pregnancies...I'm not sure you really want to help women, do you? A solution was downvoted...

Many of us have.

Don't assume we haven't.

You are correct.

That is what the poster is asking. But to add to your definition of "consequences", which you MUST consider (or else you are just as potentially guilty of dehumanizing), are the mothers and their family and socio-economic situations and thus the *futures* of the children birthed. Abuse? Neglect? Worse?

What then happens to / how do we as a society provide for--well, you used "consequences" (word games, indeed), but I prefer to say "human beings"--all the people involved? More welfare? Special adoptive programs?

I think the point here may be to think constructively--insofar as to consider the real possibility of abortion being made illegal. What action steps do we take as a society and at what cost and to whom to remedy the subsequent challenges? C'mon, hang up the knee-jerk anger response, and put on that thinking cap!

What would the Founders do?

I'm

I'm not saying we don't all have to step up and consider what to do after it is illegal. I'm dealing with the crux of the issue which is being skimmed over. Humans living in poor socioeconomic situations is a problem, I'm not saying it's not. But what is worse? Abuse, or murder? Neglect or murder? What is worse than abuse and neglect? Oh... Murder! Ha. I'm not in favor of increased welfare rolls, but I'd much rather see LIVING people on welfare than people being murdered because they MIGHT be on welfare! Don't go the rout of telling people they aren't thinking because they're not thinking what you are thinking. I am thinking and so are you. Both thoughts our thoughts are good thoughts, until we think that killing a human is the answer to our problem.

I understand your point.

I was just trying to say that (or at least I thought) the point of the post was to imagine possible scenarios when abortion is illegal and perhaps to even constructively consider solutions to the types of new challenges which we would face as a result.

Didn't mean to insult! It just seemed like you skipped that subject matter and dove into the already familiar issue of the evils of abortion / etc.

What would the Founders do?

abortion

abortion is black genocide. Minority women constitute only about 13% of the female population (age 15-44) in the United States, but they underwent approximately 36% of the abortions. According to the Alan Guttmacher Institute, black women are more than 5 times as likely as white women to have an abortion. On average, 1,876 black babies are aborted every day in the United States. This incidence of abortion has resulted in a tremendous loss of life. It has been estimated that since 1973 Black women have had about 16 million abortions. Michael Novak had calculated “Since the number of current living Blacks (in the U.S.) is 36 million, the missing 16 million represents an enormous loss, for without abortion, America’s Black community would now number 52 million persons. It would be 36 percent larger than it is. Abortion has swept through the Black community like a scythe, cutting down every fourth member.” A highly significant 1993 Howard University study showed that African American women over age 50 were 4.7 times more likely to get breast cancer if they had had any abortions compared to women who had not had any abortions.: http://www.blackgenocide.org/black.html

jhon

What to do with the children of poor people.

Have you ever read "A Modest Proposal"?

http://www.art-bin.com/art/omodest.html

ah satire

seeing the "Modest Proposal" again reminds me of college english!

geez thanks lol

Since we are not speaking about the morality of the issue how

about talking the economics of the issue.

How many productive people/consumers/producers have been erased from the US economy before they took a breath?

How many sales of diapers, pencils, jars of baby food, school supplies, clothing, bicycles, cars, etc. etc. etc have been preempted?

How many inventions, ideas, contributions, strong arms and voices of the people have been preempted?

Talk about preemptive strikes…they have been going on a long time prior to the “War on Terror.” Or perhaps a “War OF Terror” has been going on for years now, but the screams are silent and the tears shed are in private.

Show me wheel barrows of living babies on the way to the dump. I can find plenty of people to take the challenge. My own sister is trying to adopt a baby from China. It is going to take 12 months at least and a lot of money. I have a friend who adopted 3 brothers from Russia. I have another friend who adopted a girl from Guatemala and planning on a 2nd.

Gee, if there were babies in a wheel barrow traveling down my street to the dump, I’d take them all. I'd take the one you refuse as well, that is unless, you didn't decide to take one yourself.

...

thank you Bear, for the breath of fresh air!

You make some excellent points.

I think you are right but I also think the government would need to step in and provide $$ for the poor to be able to raise their kids and buy all those products you speak of.

It really is a complicated issue every step of the way.

I have said it before, I'll say it again.

I hate abortion and want less of them.

but I would never force someone else to conform to my beliefs.

And it's sad that adopting kids costs so much freaking money!

I think the words:

"I think you are right but I also think the government would need to step in and provide $$ for the poor to be able to raise their kids and buy all those products you speak of."

need to be thought about. The government needs to STEP OUT OF THE WAY and let the people care for themselves. It is because they are in the way trying to care for everyone little thing down to volume of toilet water that causes the problem.

If 60% of my earnings...that is more than half a day's work was not going to taxes and regulations I could help more people myself. I already help people personally and thru government extortion.

I think the voice of Liberty says, let us figure it out ourselves...we are quite capable. After all, men are endowed by their Creator, not only with rights, but with ability!

...

but isn't a society judged by how well it's poor are treated?

What if there aren't enough private groups to help these people?

I'm just trying to say that if we want to ban abortion the gov't needs to prepare to be burdened by the people who can't better themselves.

Im thinking of the people growing up in the "projects" and such, who don't currently take care of themselves due to lack of education, government subsidizing and lack of private investment in those areas.

And if the government helps, it should be with the goal of empowering people not creating more dependency