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Rand Paul's budget

Rand Paul presented his budget on the Glen Beck Radio show.

Income up to $50,000 a year will be exempt from federal taxes. Anything above will be subject to a 17% flat tax.

In ours we go ahead and eliminate some departments. We eliminate the Department of Education, most of the Department of Energy, most of the Department of Commerce.”

His budget also removes the waste from Social Security and Medicare. With S.S. they reduce spending through means testing, gradually raising the age. His plan for Medicare allows every senior citizen to have the same health plan that congress does.

“It saves a trillion dollars over ten years and it also allows us to have a sustainable entitlement program, basically fixes Social Security for 75 years,” Sen Paul explained. “And then if that’s not enough for you, Glenn, we have one more thing. We do a flat income tax of 17% which gives a $600 billion stimulus to the economy and allows for, you know, we estimate somewhere between 8 and 12 million new jobs.”

Rand Paul’s flat tax is 17% with an exemption for the first $50,000. So, it’s graduated in that anyone making under $50k wouldn’t pay an income tax.

http://www.glennbeck.com/2013/03/20/sen-rand-paul-talks-immi...



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"Income up to $50,000 a year

"Income up to $50,000 a year will be exempt from federal taxes. Anything above will be subject to a 17% flat tax."

Sounds good, but needs to be budget neutral. Also, I suspect what you are doing is going to in-fact raise taxes. You've gotten rid of a lot of loopholes that kept tax burdens down for a lot of people. Doing some quick math, he'd increase income tax revenue to 1.6 trillion. That is higher than it is today...

"In ours we go ahead and eliminate some departments. We eliminate the Department of Education, most of the Department of Energy, most of the Department of Commerce.”

He's saving what, 120 billion here? Big whoop!

"His budget also removes the waste from Social Security and Medicare"

I hate it when politicians use the word waste. It is a cop-out. What is waste? Social Security is a program DESIGNED to give you less than what you paid in. And where is the waste? It is a simple program. MediCAID is more efficient than PRIVATE healthcare (they have to be since they have a much more fixed revenue); I'd wager that Medicare is fairly efficient as well. It is hard to compare with private insurance since Medicare covers a different patient population, which is why I compared Medicaid to private care.

"With S.S. they reduce spending through means testing, gradually raising the age."

Huh. Rand-Paul is pro-theft? Didn't realize this. You paid into your SS, you are entitled to it. When you reduce payouts, your simply retroactively taxing people.

This is simple.

"His plan for Medicare allows every senior citizen to have the same health plan that congress does."

This I cannot prove, but bull-freaking-shit. Congress's healthcare plan is so freaking good...no way Medicare will ever come close.

“'It saves a trillion dollars over ten years and it also allows us to have a sustainable entitlement program, basically fixes Social Security for 75 years'"

Social Security is fine. Maybe stop borrowing off it, and stop trying to hid your THEFT by reducing obligations.

"'We do a flat income tax of 17% which gives a $600 billion stimulus to the economy and allows for, you know, we estimate somewhere between 8 and 12 million new jobs.'”

Government spending doesn't create jobs, tax cuts don't create jobs. The facts are in. Opportunity creates jobs...companies, businesses, and individuals are not not creating jobs because they lack money (look how cheap money is to borrow, and look how low credit demand is), they're not creating jobs because they don't need to. They don't see the ability to expand business, and/or they're still trying to get the mistakes they made in the last decade off the books.

Cut taxes because its the right thing to do; let people keep their money if we can manage it. But don't sell it as a jobs package. That is what Obama did.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

I think you should

give Rand some credit on wanting to cutting those three departments, since it's a politically smart thing to do. I don't think we can cut 5 departments all at once, I think the people need to indoctrinated about "smaller government" slowly because the injection is way too big to handle in one dose.

I really loved what you said about Social Security. I think that reducing payouts by increasing the age in which you begin to receive Social Security is major theft, and I like how you said it was retroactively taxing people. Good stuff! Not sure how this 17% flat tax will work out and if it will in fact be a HIGHER tax than what we have now. Not too good with that kind of accounting, I suppose we'll see!

The fact that almost

The fact that almost everything you said was either wrong, a half truth, or irrelevant, would mean a full response would take a good 30 min or more. And I am sure many people here would rather not waste their time. I have already wasted enough of mine with this response.

Let us look at the

Let us look at the facts:

"Also, I suspect what you are doing is going to in-fact raise taxes. You've gotten rid of a lot of loopholes that kept tax burdens down for a lot of people. Doing some quick math, he'd increase income tax revenue to 1.6 trillion. That is higher than it is today..."

So, take the approx. 138 million taxpayers that filed in 2011. Then take the 13 trillion in personal income earned in that same year. You lose about 4.4 trillion of that to Rand's exemption. Then, take the rest and multiply by .017. One gets 1.45 trillion, and remember, these are 2011 numbers. For 2013, they'd be about 1.6, if not more, as that is a conservative estimation.

"'In ours we go ahead and eliminate some departments. We eliminate the Department of Education, most of the Department of Energy, most of the Department of Commerce.'

He's saving what, 120 billion here? Big whoop!"

Dept. of Energy is 71 billion, Energy is 35 billion, and Commerce is 9 billion. That is 115 billion, or rounded up, 120 billion. Plus, I doubt that Rand is going to cut Pell grants, which he has supported in the past.

"Social Security is a program DESIGNED to give you less than what you paid in."

Yup. Check out Social Security's own website on the treasury, and do the mat from your own contributions. Plenty of studies have backed this up.

"And where is the waste? It is a simple program."

10 billion in administrative costs, managing nearly 800 billion. That is only slightly over 1%....

"MediCAID is more efficient than PRIVATE healthcare (they have to be since they have a much more fixed revenue); I'd wager that Medicare is fairly efficient as well."

True: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=...

And:
http://www.cbpp.org/6-26-08health.htm

"It is hard to compare with private insurance since Medicare covers a different patient population, which is why I compared Medicaid to private care."

Obviously. Medicare is for those over 65. Private insurance covers everybody.

"You paid into your SS, you are entitled to it. When you reduce payouts, your simply retroactively taxing people."

What about this is untrue? The fact that you don't like it doesn't make it untrue...

"'His plan for Medicare allows every senior citizen to have the same health plan that congress does.'

This I cannot prove, but bull-freaking-shit. Congress's healthcare plan is so freaking good...no way Medicare will ever come close."

Again, if you can prove this statement wrong, go ahead. I would be very surprised if Congress had a modest healthcare plan...I'm not even going to take the time to do the research!

"Social Security is fine. Maybe stop borrowing off it, and stop trying to hid your THEFT by reducing obligations."

Again, truth.

"Government spending doesn't create jobs, tax cuts don't create jobs. The facts are in. Opportunity creates jobs...companies, businesses, and individuals are not not creating jobs because they lack money (look how cheap money is to borrow, and look how low credit demand is), they're not creating jobs because they don't need to. They don't see the ability to expand business, and/or they're still trying to get the mistakes they made in the last decade off the books."

There are numerous STUDIES that show this. And it make sense. With money being so cheap, if the private sector saw places to invest in, they would invest already. Corporations are sitting on PILES of cash. They don't see the opportunity out there...cutting taxes won't solve anything.

Companies spend money when they NEED to spend money, not just because they have it.

"Cut taxes because its the right thing to do; let people keep their money if we can manage it."

Truth. At least, for me.

"But don't sell it as a jobs package."

Which is what Rand is doing.

"That is what Obama did."

That is exactly how Obama sold the stimulus plan, which, BTW, included a 300 billion dollar tax cut.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

Loving the down votes with no

Loving the down votes with no comments. Tell me where I am wrong!

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

Ron always talked about incrementalism

and sometimes I see Rand's proposals and views as manifestations of this idea.

What about war spending

I didn't see anything in the article about war spending. How could he miss that big pile of pork?

I like it

why not?

It sounds a lot better than

It sounds a lot better than the current tax code. And all we need is to improve it incrementally, like EGhost said. The $50k income exemption is badly needed. Anyone who has been in the situation of paying their rent, living expenses, and then putting the majority of their meager savings for the year towards paying income taxes knows how much it hurts. A 15% tax feels more like a 80% tax in that situation. It really keeps people in the hole and unable to invest their money in a new idea or investment.

I get the impression that Ron Paul during his 2012 run was intentionally making his plans so grandiose so as to guarantee that people would never go for it in one shot like that. Eliminating 5 federal departments, eliminating the income tax, etc. Kind of like, "I don't want this job, but I'll do it under these conditions."

Who pays income tax on

Who pays income tax on anything less than 50K anymore?

Maybe if you are single and don't home a home. Otherwise you can write so many things off; you have 401K and IRA, and mortgage write-off, kids write-off, state income taxes write-off, healthcare write-off, transit costs write-off.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

I did

I'm married. I don't have a mortgage. I don't spend anything more than I can afford to pay on healthcare, and the annual amount that I would have to spend to be able to deduct it is just not happening. Since I opted to have only the one child that I could afford instead of the two or more that everyone else around here seems to have, I don't get much of a credit. If Rand wants to cut my taxes, I'm fine with that.

The problem with so many in the liberty group is that they have an "all or nothing" mentality. Sure, I'm for doing away with the income tax. I hate it. I'm for non-intervention. I want to end all of the wars now, and I want to get rid of all of these bases all over the world. I want to see drugs legalized and let adults take responsibility for their own actions. I am libertarian, but most people aren't.

So, let them get used to a little dose of libertarian ideas. Let them see it isn't scary and that the world won't fall apart. Cut a few departments. Eliminate the income tax for some people. Then expand on those ideas. I am not a huge fan of Rand Paul, but I think he's playing the game to win. I also believe that if he wins, he'll do a lot more than he's saying now.

I get it, you're being

I get it, you're being facetious. I will up vote you for humor.

It's like when my aunt tried to host afternoon tea in her hovel for my squash club. Why didn't she just buy a nice home? And why didn't she just have her maid clean up? I saw no one with an apron in sight. Horrid, I tell you, horrid!

If a budget like this were to

If a budget like this were to pass, it would show a lot of people how little they actually need the government. Then the brush fires of liberty could spread and we could eliminate the other departments and raise that exemption to $100,000 then $500,000 and then get ride of the whole income tax scam.

If only Americans cared about the future.

"The robbery will continue"

"Go back into your underwater homes."