2 votes

Beginning of the End for Bitcoin?

Looks like Bitcoin won't be quite as anonymous as it once was. This development could seriously hamper the services that have recently developed to cater to Bitcoin users.

http://www.freebanking.org/2013/03/19/us-treasury-updates-bi...

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meekandmild's picture

who's got some bitcon's they will trade

for some FRNs?

Trade bitcoins

I have traded them for silver, but never for FRN's

The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government ... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it-Andrew Jackson

Doesn't apply in many ways

Government bureaucrats will always try to change the law to whatever they want under color of law, and Obama likes to do things through decree instead of actual congress, so this is expected - but will have zero effect other than possibly some government terrorism (ie enforcing non-laws through military, police force) as they've done in the past.

Working through the courts, and not going through all the legal arguments made - since this is being applied to existing institutions and businesses, it would REQUIRE AN ACT OF LEGISLATURE to be valid.

But leaving aside that, it:
a) only effects people who exchange bitcoins for currency - which bitcoins can be a completely separated thing from any currency.
b) are in the United States. Bitcoins is everywhere, hard to trace, and any business that needs a physical presence can be outside the United States. Large corporations do it all the time. It is not necessary to operate in the United States.

It also doesn't apply to gift cards, which is one of the common things bitcoins are exchanged for.

These regulations will have zero effect on bitcoin other than for many people to ensure that they don't operate in the United States - which was already the motivation of most users to begin with.

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However, an administrator or exchanger is an MSB under FinCEN’s regulations, specifically, a money transmitter, unless a limitation to or exemption from the definition applies to the person."

They explain the terms here, "This guidance refers to the participants in generic virtual currency arrangements, using the terms “user,” “exchanger,” and “administrator.”6 A user is a person that obtains virtual currency to purchase goods or services.7 An exchanger is a person engaged as a business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency, funds, or other virtual currency. An administrator is a person engaged as a business in issuing (putting into circulation) a virtual currency, and who has the authority to redeem (to withdraw from circulation) such virtual currency."

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

FYI - knew I forgot something

FYI - knew I forgot something in that last post:

"An administrator is a person engaged as a business in issuing (putting into circulation) a virtual currency, and who has the authority to redeem (to withdraw from circulation) such virtual currency."

No one is in charge of putting bitcoins in circulation, or can withdraw them from circulation.

This doesn't describe bitcoins at all.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

great posts max

bump

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
My ฿itcoin: 17khsA7MvBJAGAPkhrFJdQZPYKgxAeXkBY
http://www.dailypaul.com/303151/bitcoin-has-gone-on-an-insan...

It could be said that anyone

It could be said that anyone creating a new bitcoin has issued currency. The implications are disastrous for Bitcoin.

You can claim anything you

You can claim anything you want, but at some point of stretching it, it requires an act of legislature. You wouldn't get a conviction on someone privately mining a bitcoin - ie finding a mathematical solution to a problem, that's ridiculous.

At most, police and military will use color of law interpretations to terrorize people - which I said in my first post, because it's the standard way they operate now*1, but it wouldn't work in the courts.

The regulations in the original post specifically exclude bitcoin. If they meant to include bitcoin, it indicates they don't even understand it. No one issues bitcoins, no one can withdraw bitcoins.

*1 operating under color of law to deprive someone of their rights is a felony that used to be enforced fyi. There are both federal and state laws that deal with it.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Help me understand this Bitcoin thing...

This is another artificial currency that doesn't actually exist...it's an electronic currency in "the cloud"? And why would someone want to invest in this currency when "the government" has an off-switch to the internet? Should they pull the plug on the internet, you have nothing again.

------------------
BC
Silence isn't always golden....sometimes it's yellow.

"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." - Patrick Henry

This post doesn't actually

This post doesn't actually exist.

The only moment you have to be aware of

is when puts and calls can be traded on the exchange rate of a bitcoin against a dollar or euro.
Once derivatives arrive the manipulation will start.
And because very little bitcoins exist in comparison with the infinite amount of dollars it is pretty easy to squeeze a lot of people out of their bitcoins.

"Nothing" always finds it's true value.

nfm

"Nothing"

seems to be a reference towards "something." What's in your wallet?

Bad logic.

Federal Reserve Notes being a fraud doesn't speak to the legitimacy of Bit(ch) Coin.

"bit(ch) coin"

Wow, you are so clever. Why not use your big-boy words and intellectually convince us why a digital currency that is un-hackable, un-theivable, and un-falsifiable is such a bad thing.

It sounds to me like you WANT the feds to be able to seize your money.

actually he does

you can read his thoughts on this topic here:
http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/3009220

Yes and you are living proof

Yes and you are living proof of that! ;)

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End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

So I'm nothing to you aye Anarchist?

This is what an Anarchist really is, a person who sees you as nothing. Anarchism isn't a political ideology, it's a mental disorder.

LOL whats a matter gov

LOL whats a matter gov starting to realize your illusion of controlling the masses is over or are you not smart enough to see it?... With Bitcoin, 3d printing, and a host of other self sufficient technologies now it doesn't matter what laws your kind condones and passes we will just ignore you and your malignant sick society of force theft and coercion while we implement the future of freedom and liberty by empowering the individual with these technologies.

Give it up it's over embrace reality or implode in emotional insanity as you watch your whole world of sick illusion evaporates like the dew in the morning sun!

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End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

ROFL This guy is losing it.

"Give it up it's over embrace reality or implode in emotional insanity as you watch your whole world of sick illusion evaporates like the dew in the morning sun!"

Like I said; a mental disorder.

LOL! Your too funny! It's

LOL! Your too funny! It's over dude the mechanisms of monopolized force theft and coercion have been broken! Outlaw guns I'll just print one out. Try and steal my money to bad can't track my transactions nor break the encryption on my wallet. We won't need 3rd party financial institutions for transactions anymore so thieves posing as our protectors can't steal our money. No more centralized manufacturing or food production with 3D printing and hugelkultur/permaculture. etc etc.

We simply have no need for you and your control freak assholes strong arming us robbing us. IT'S OVER you're just blinded by you indoctrination. Soon though you will not be able to deny it!

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End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

Great comment, hawkiye.

Many of us are further awakening to realize the potential reality available for those that seek freedom right now, today. It's our personal choice and it's one that the tyrants will have difficulty competing with. Keep preaching the good word, my friend.

Thanks! I created an entire

Thanks! I created an entire thread on it you might be interested in reading: http://www.dailypaul.com/279143/embrace-the-future

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End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

I can go buy a lot better guns RIGHT NOW.

"It's over dude the mechanisms of monopolized force theft and coercion have been broken! Outlaw guns I'll just print one out."

I can go buy a lot better guns RIGHT NOW. Actually doing something with with your gun is where things get difficult to explain aye Anarchist? Are you going to go out and break this mythical monopoly of force with your lego gun? Nope... Wanna know why? Because you're a coward and you know you'll face justice.

"Try and steal my money to bad can't track my transactions nor break the encryption on my wallet."

lol! You've been drinking haven't you?

"We won't need 3rd party financial institutions for transactions anymore so thieves posing as our protectors can't steal our money."

Oh really? By 'stealing your money' do you mean taxation? It's stealing to tax you Anarchist? It's stealing (Freeloading) for you to think you're going to live under the umbrella of security the rest of us create while running your mouth about how people are worthless nothings.

"No more centralized manufacturing or food production with 3D printing and hugelkultur/permaculture. etc etc. "

I like 3D printing. It's legit. That commie printing AR lowers isn't.

"Soon though you will not be able to deny it!"

Deny what, that you've gone off the edge into insanity? People can create better stuff in their garage than with a 3D printer including weapons.

Umbrella of security. rofl!

No thank you, you can keep your security umbrella. It's waaaaaaaaay overpriced and seems to have several holes in it.

"A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself within" W. Durant

It's by the consent of the governed

Yes, when you tax for something that is not for a power or function the government was ever given, it's stealing.

Nor is it necessary to have a government, it's by consent of the governed. If the people don't want it, they have a right to change it, abolish it, or leave it altogether.

And unlike Marxists with their word redefinitions, people means individuals, not some mass collectivized mob - of which the founders were opposed to.

No one has ever given up their God given sovereign rights. Anyone that says otherwise should be aware the Declaration of Independence among other things recognizes the existing fact that God is the Supreme Judge. He is the judge of us and of that, not you.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Is it a loving act to pretend evil is subjective

"If the people don't want it, they have a right to change it, abolish it, or leave it altogether."

The people can change, alter, and abolish their government, but a few Anarchists at the Daily Paul do not make up "the people". That's why I keep saying that they needed to win the debate, but people don't want Anarchism. I want Anarchists to leave if they aren't happy here. It would be SO NICE to not have to listen to people talking about how taxation is theft.

It's a kindness to say GET OUT rather than opt out, because people should be able to leave, and I don't want them to face any hindrance if that's what they want, and I don't want them to be freeloaders who end up facing justice.

"No one has ever given up their God given sovereign rights."

But they do get taken by covetous people.

"Anyone that says otherwise should be aware the Declaration of Independence among other things recognizes the existing fact that God is the Supreme Judge. He is the judge of us and of that, not you."

That implies I'm incapable of recognizing evil, and I'm not supposed to do anything to stop it should I see evil. Defending liberty is the only justice mankind is capable of serving. Gods Justice comes after.

Do you know what nihilism is? It's like playing make pretend and deciding evil is totally subjective and there's no objective basis for truth. I say you'll know the truth when you see it, and you're supposed to love people. "Love is the fulfillment of the law."

Is it a loving act to pretend evil is subjective and something I can't judge? Is it a loving act to turn my back to evil pretending nothing is happening when the people I love are getting raped, and butchered?

No. My eyes are open.

I have no problem with justice. I love justice.

Freeloading?

"It's stealing (Freeloading) for you to think you're going to live under the umbrella of security the rest of us create while running your mouth about how people are worthless nothings."

This sounds like a social contract to me. "Commie."

Yes, freeloading.

I don't really care that you don't see any value in a system of justice, national defense, or keeping the peace. You've been compensated, and if you see no value in that compensation, I can only assume you'll feel the same way in Anarchy. That means whatever you hope to create is doomed fail

Is what you hope to create doomed to fail, or are you freeloading?

Get behind me, Stalin.

I refuse your distortion of reality. "government" isn't the problem. It's authoritarians like you who believe you have the right to tell people they owe something back to society. Doing so implies that you own, at least in part, the fruits of peoples' labor, and that, sir, is slavery.

What you advocate is the antithesis of freedom.