-37 votes

*Red Alert: Get Out Of Gold And Silver! Use Paper Dollars!

If you own Silver and Gold get out Now!

First of all, Gold and Silver is in a Bubble. Look here is an Article that says it is: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/08/17/gold-bubble...

Second, we already know the government has precedent to make it illegal to own Gold and Silver and will do it again. This will come with stiff Jail Sentences and downright forceful confiscation!

Third, The Government has labeled anyone owning precious metals as possible Domestic Terrorists. Sell your Silver and Gold now so you can live without fear of being persecuted by your government!

http://www.activistpost.com/2011/12/10-ridiculous-things-tha...

Forth, The Government is looking to regulate and record anyone who is purchasing physical Silver and Gold. They will Track you!

http://dailybail.com/home/update-new-bill-requires-gold-silv...

Now lets talk serious! For anyone here who owns Gold and Silver does any of that propaganda make Gold and Silver illegitimate as money? Does it give you reason to sell your Gold and Silver?

I dont think so... Sure, it's risk is a concern but considering the alternative which is to hold paper Dollars it's well worth taking the risk.

So why do all the Bitcoin haters try to use the same fear mongering propaganda techniques to downplay Bitcoins?

Look, are there hurdles to overcome? OFCOURSE there are! What, did you think the most powerful Banking Cabal would just lay down and die without a fight? Do you think there just going to relinquish power back in the hands of the people? No! There going to get their bought off government lackey's and Media whores to throw everything they got at Bitcoins. In my opinion this only legitimizes Bitcoin as a weapon that can be used against the Bankers!

End the Fed! Use Bitcoins!



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So many comments, yet all miss the underlying discussion

I see all sides on the bitcoin yes/no/IDC discussion. But I have yet to see the real root discussion break out. Let's begin it, shall we?

There are basic reasons that people fight against FRNs. The most common is that their value is subject to a small group of manipulators controlling it. Looking at it another way, it is subject to inflation.

Another reason is trust. People don't inherently trust the government or the banks to not use it in nefarious ways. This could include the inflation factor but it could also include tracking and stopping transactions from taking place.

Yet another reason is portability. If people can't access their wealth for a transaction, it loses value.

Let's compare FRNs (all government currencies apply here) to metals to Bitcoins to rice and bullets on all these standards.

A fiat currency is one that can be manipulated because it has a value that is decreed by the government. Therefore, the government can simply decree a change in its value.

Gold and silver are only slightly susceptible to this before the exchange market adds a margin on top of the spot price. This makes them better but not perfect. Any manipulation is by market actions of buying/selling en masse so it is by definition only temporary. Since it is a physical currency, there are physical requirements that must accompany it like storage, privacy, legality and security. For some, these are minimal tasks/risks so they hold metals in high regard.

Bitcoin cannot be manipulated by the government unless you consider them using the actual BC market in volume as a manipulation (like in metals). Keep in mind that this type of manipulation by is itself a form of market support for the the process so it still can only be a temporary issue. Beyond that, BC holds the value that always represents the exact value the market places on them. They cannot change higher or lower by decree or bank rate hikes.

Holding a Bitcoin also incurs some personal effort. One must keep track of a code, either electronically or physically or mentally, but other than traceable methods of this, there is no threat of confiscation by anyone on any amount in any form. It also carries the requirement that 'the market' validate all transactions. Currently, this is only done in electronic form (a perceived risk for some) so simple face-to-face barter is impacted. For some, the methods available as of yet hold more risk than for others and this is where most of the divide occurs in Bitcoin support.

The exchange to/from BC is however, kept as a separate service whose price is also the exact market value. This separation becomes key when their use is prolific enough that exchange is not required because this removes the last bit of margin on free transactions for a free people.

Commodities like rice or bullets can be seen as a strong competing currency in only a narrow scope. It can be easily transacted face-to-face and carries an inherent value that cannot be manipulate by government decree but it loses its convertibility and its ability to reach longer geographical distances.

So, the discussion boils down to 7 factors to compare. Here is the average of how I personally see them viewed by others over all, on a 1-10 scale. I followed it by my personal opinion (in parenthesis) of where I see the world when the SHTF. Your Mileage May Vary

Inflation:
Paper - 2 (1)
Metals - 7 (9)
Bitcoin - 9 (9)
Commodities - 9 (8)

Market Security:
Paper - 3 (2)
Metals - 7 (8)
Bitcoin - 8 (9)
Commodities - 9 (8)

Local Transaction Ease:
Paper - 9 (4)
Metals - 9 (9)
Bitcoin - 6 (8)
Commodities - 5 (3)

Long Distance Transaction Ease:
Paper - 4 (2)
Metals - 3 (1)
Bitcoin - 9 (9)
Commodities - 1 (1)

Security From Theft:
Paper - 5 (3)
Metals - 7 (6)
Bitcoin - 8 (9)
Commodities - 7 (4)

Security From Government Theft:
Paper - 3 (1)
Metals - 7 (5)
Bitcoin - 7 (9)
Commodities - 7 (6)

Security From Government Tracking:
Paper - 2 (1)
Metals - 8 (8)
Bitcoin - 9 (9)
Commodities - 9 (6)

Score Summary:
Paper Metals Bitcoin Commodities
28 .... 48 .... 56 .... 47
(14) .. (46) .. (62) .. (36)

Hopefully, I've framed the discussion correctly. I'm sure many will disagree with my scores but that's the nature of publicly stating an opinion. It's also why we're free to choose our own path. I just hope to end the arguments over definitions and labels that don't get to the real importance of what people care about. Thnx for reading.

I think I would take silver and gold during SHTF

with the intent being that after things calm down, I may have enough earned from bartering to buy a good deal more land or equipment with it.

An acre of good farm land, in terms of gold, has remained relatively stable throughout the last 100 years.

Just food for thought.

Our family's journey from the Rocket City to the Redoubt: www.suburbiatosimplicity.com

Thanks but no thanks.

If I have silver in my hand, no one is going to make a bomb out of it. If I cash my silver in for FRNs or bitcoin, someone can make bombs out of the silver I had.
Also, if the economy collapses I can make life saving medicine from my silver. I cannot even make a paperweight out of bitcoins.
I'll keep stacking silver, you are welcome to invest in bitcoins or FRNs if you like but I will not be joining you.
Well, I would be stacking silver if there was any to be had locally... Every dealer in the area is OUT.

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

Obviously you are Sold

And obviously the more people you Sell, the more the value of your investment goes up.

That's cool.

The problem with Bitcoin is that many things that the Converted are preaching is factually not true.

They can be tracked, for one. The developer of Bitcoin has said so himself. Apparently there are plenty of people that don't want to hear this.

It's inherently unstable, because no matter what subtle rationales the Converted come up with to give it inherent value: It has none. It's abstract. It's math. It's virtual.

And when the plug is pulled and/or the system goes down for any reason (of which there are potentially many) ..

At that point Bitcoins will be merely a memory and a fantasy.

Gold, silver and palladium are Shiny, Solid, and Rare. Always will be.

Period.

But do as you want. Keep up the good fight.

Gold silver bitcoins

Bitcoins at 80.00$

That one bitcoin will buy me how much silver?

Diversify your portfolio and if you need to go overseas your bitcoins will for sure go with you.

"We’ve moved beyond the Mises textbook. We’re running in the open market." - Erik Voorhees

until the internet plug is

until the internet plug is pulled.

You'll have to pry the silver from my cold dead fingers

first!

I'll just bet the US Government wished they had some of the 6 billion ozs they squandered manipulating the spot price in the past. They are paying for it now trying to save face minting Silver Eagles. It is my understanding they haven't minted any 5 oz rounds because there is not enough for Silver Eagles. Oh BTW I read on several websites apple had to scrap it's 21" Mack screen because their is not enough silver available to start production.

Doesn't sound like Silver is in a bubble to me, more like the dollar is in a bubble LMAO!

When the dollar collapses farmers will be willing to dump their land for silver and gold I'll bet. There will be a huge fire sale on everything, I may even be generous and over 10 oz of silver for 100 acres of land.

Surviving the killing fields of Minnesota

Todays brainwashing: GMO's are safe

Buy silver & gold coins check

Buy silver & gold coins check out your local coin dealers. Remember you can buy American 1/4 Oz Gold Eagle coins if you can't afford a full blown Oz. Of Gold. Buy food grade plastic containers to store water, dry food goods like rice, beans, etc. some nice guns & Ammo. Stay Calm, cool, collected, :) &......

Yeah, but the premiums on

Yeah, but the premiums on those fractions are out of control.

Going by APMEX:

$192.27 for a 1/10 oz. gold eagle.
$466.14 for a 1/4 oz. gold eagle.

$1,864.56 for 4x 1/4 oz. gold eagles.
$1,922.70 for 10x 1/10 oz. gold eagles.

$1,741.82 for a 1 oz. gold eagle.

7% higher for 1/4 oz. gold eagles.
10% higher for 1/10 oz. gold eagles.

You're better off saving for an ounce if your conscience can deal with dumping that much money into such a tiny inanimate object that only weighs 3/40 of a pound.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

Cyril's picture

Current premium for silver eagles at ProvidentMetals is at...11%

The current premium for silver eagles at ProvidentMetals is at... 11% over spot. (yes: "dang!") NO LESS than that.

( http://www.providentmetals.com/2013-1-oz-american-silver-eag... )

And that's the price for cash payment method, btw. It's even greater over spot if by credit card (almost 12%). I used to see some of their offers last year (from August to November, at least) at around 5 or 6%, maybe 7%, over spot only.

(That'd be like some Bitcoin stackers willing to pay $89 for a coin, instead of $80, as of today. We can't deny precious metals that specific peculiarity anyway, we like it or not.)

What does that tell us? Have their sales plunged and they fear bankruptcy or something, at Provident, APMEX, et al.?

I don't think so :

http://www.dailypaul.com/279013/what-does-the-start-of-a-mov...

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Cyril's picture

Premiums often speak more than spot

I read once**, and tend to agree with, that there is one thing no one can manipulate about any commodity where the base price is set/fixed with more or less bias on the major trade markets :

the premiums practiced by brokers and resellers "on the streets", outside the trade markets, precisely.

Those never lie whether it's increasing or decreasing demand trends.

** (will try to find the link)

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Bitcoins are like carbon credits.

If you hold dollars you need to offset the harm you're doing to society. So you must purchase an equivalent amount of alternative money.

Bitcoin is nice

but dont think for one moment bitcoin is going to get you out of a economic collapse.

as for the fear mongering, here's my motto. Listen to all, follow none.

His name is Edward Snowden

What is Capitalism?
http://youtu.be/yNF09pUPypw

and Gold and Silver?

What you think people are going to accept your silver and Gold for trade?
What use is it in a dooms day scenerio. Your better off trading in Bullets.

Usually the pro-bitcoins

Usually the pro-bitcoins think of a doomsday scenario as being kooky, but you actually don't have your head up your ass on this one. I might ask, who will care about bitcoins and have electricity and internet in that kind of scenario?

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

Bullets would be a good item, to stock pile.

The only problem once the person your trading with gets restocked with bullets will he just rob or shot you for the items he just traded with you.

Surviving the killing fields of Minnesota

Todays brainwashing: GMO's are safe

they have for 6 thousand

they have for 6 thousand years during some extremely terrible times.

Cyril's picture

+1 Point. Indeed. If SHTF had to come and last forever

+1 Point. Indeed.

If SHTF had to come and last forever, that'd be by nuclear Hell sending everyone and everything ... to oblivion once and for all, anyway.

Then yes, okay, the relevance of gold, silver, Bitcoin, the USD, the Yen, the EURO, Pokémons, ... would go "poof!" ... no doubts.

All problems "solved". "Yay".

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Hey Man

I'm still trying to get rid of my Pokémons...

Cyril's picture

LOL. Sorry, man. Not exactly interested, to be frank... ;)

LOL. Sorry, man. Not exactly interested, to be frank... ;)

P.S.
But who knows? Maybe you ought to keep them, anyway ... for future numismatic value? (very rare, etc)

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Anybody selling silver coins

Anybody selling silver coins email me, I will buy what you are selling. Yes that's right, Sell, Sell, Sell!

There is no Left or Right -- there is only freedom or tyranny. Everything else is an illusion, an obfuscation to keep you confused and silent as the world burns around you." - Philip Brennan

"Invest only in things that you can stand in front of and pr

Yea Im selling my Silver for Bitcoins

Contact me I'll sell you my Silver... 50 Bitcins for 100 ounces of Silver.

Oh... Wait, You dont have Bitcoins? You mean you still use dollars?

Sorry I dont accept currency that supports an evil banking cabal. Why do you even deal in that currency if your pro Liberty.

Contact me when you get Bitcoins and I'll sell you my silver.

First off, it's bitcoin

First off, it's bitcoin that's in the bubble. The deal with low metal right now is just suppression.

If I send you dollars via PayPal for silver it is not supporting the Fed. Supporting the Fed would be using cash to buy your silver. Dollars in the virtual world are no different than bitcoins. They are just numbers on a computer backed by nothing. You could make a system like PayPal that has a 1:1 tie to the dollar and just call the unit pubes if you wanted to.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

Are we supposed to use these

Are we supposed to use these evil banking cabal-supporting dollars to buy our bitcoins, though?

Simple Facts and Plain Arguments
A common sense take on politics and current events.

www.simplefactsplainarguments.com

Nice!

Hey peace, do you know of another company like www.coinabul.com?

I'm starting to want to compete with coinbul...

"We’ve moved beyond the Mises textbook. We’re running in the open market." - Erik Voorhees

DP Goldtards

Most bitcoiners like gold. But I'm starting to wonder if some gold bugs on this forum would rather see bitcoin outlawed.

I'm more of a silverbug (more

I'm more of a silverbug (more affordable, better upside than gold), but I want bitcoin to get more popular. When currencies are left free to compete against one another, they're kept honest.

Simple Facts and Plain Arguments
A common sense take on politics and current events.

www.simplefactsplainarguments.com

not outlawed but the Fed.

not outlawed but the Fed. Gov. will take them.

they would if they could but

they can't so they won't.

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
Rand Paul 2016

Yeah that's right..

The fed gov will TAKE them. ( sarcasm).

Dude all you anti bitcoins are seriously ignorant. Please educate yourself before you blindly follow the blind that are leading y'all.

"We’ve moved beyond the Mises textbook. We’re running in the open market." - Erik Voorhees