44 votes

A few words that changed a life.

I have recently been listening to the once avid opponents of Ron Paul saying the very same things I have said for the past six years right back to me. On every topic from every stripe and background. Most would consider this a victory all be it a late one. I do not. I see it more as a growing experience in learning. One that has taken me years to recognize and nurture.

A once harsh enemy of mine, as there is no other way to describe her, has over the past year or so come around to the Libertarian world view and I asked her simply "why?". She said it was because of something I said to her at the end of a civil argument between two adults that stopped her in her tracks. This argument was fast-moving from civil to some place else, I could feel that, so I said what I said and left the room.

Time and time again I find that pointing out all the injustices that our government gets away with, all the murder, all the racism and race baiting, all the times that the media have lied, all the truth I could point out, has the tendency to overwhelm most and they just shut down. They go to "safe mode" and start to raise their voices or begin to repeat what they hear on the news as a defense. This, in the end, proves worthless. This is what was happening at the end of our argument. As she was starting to be overwhelmed and began to raise her voice in defense of Obama and how he was not the best but better than the rest, I stood up, looked her in the eye and said, " It is impossible to support someone like Ron Paul, be ignorant, and willfully stupid at the same time." Then I left.

That sentence. That little sentence is all it took. Not points of fact, videos from YouTube and else where, not little fliers with Ron Paul's face on it, but that statement. That's all and I think it was because there is no argument against it. Notice anyone you meet that supports Ron Paul. You can call them a lot of things but stupid ain't one of them. This shut her down and caused her to ask of herself. She did that and found herself wanting.

Being a Ron Paul supporter means more than supporting tax breaks or ending the fed. It means more than bringing our troops home or giving power back to the states and people. It means more than all of those things, put together. Being a Ron Paul supporter means taking responsibility for yourself. Being the collector of both the good and bad of your actions and having to keep both. It means trusting people again. Trusting that they know what is best for them. It means looking in the mirror and realizing the YOU are responsible for you and your situation. That you can blame no one for whatever mess you are in except you. So what you were run over by a train. Perhaps you should have stayed off the tracks. And that, being responsible for you, that is a scary thing.

I guess my point is this, if you ever find yourself arguing with an idiot, remember this: The first person to loses their temper looses the fight. The loss of your temper is a sign of a mental house fly and if you claim to support someone like Ron Paul, then you might want to buzz on out of that room before you lose the ability to call yourself intelligent.




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At a gathering of friends

At a gathering of friends before the 2008 election I once stopped an Obama debater in his tracks. Shut him completely down for the rest of the night with one simple question, which was:

"Without using the words 'hope' or 'change,' what is Obama going to do?"

This "huge" Obama supporter (who is also usually quite knowledgeable about politics) quickly realized that he had no clue at all about the guy he was supporting & promoting.

"Hope & Change" rah rah rah!

And on that note, I think this might be in order: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhhkF3dqXR0

...

Cyril's picture

Well, we DID GET the "Change" :

Well, we DID GET the "Change" :

http://www.dailypaul.com/279782/law-would-fire-sheriffs-for-...

As for the "Hope"...

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Agreed. Always stay calm and rational in an argument, but...

the word is "loses" not "looses". (also: "losing" not "loosing")

Spelling also counts.

Cyril's picture

Great post, thank you for this.

Great post, thank you for this.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Murray Rothbard discusses this somewhat in this long speech

The "First World Libertarian Convention" was held in Zurich in 1982.

Murray Rothbard: Six Stages of the Libertarian Movement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWxYC4H0VWo

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
Dwight D. Eisenhower

BookMark This

So I can refer to it, in the future.
Like ammo sittin' in that trusty old firearm hangin' over the fireplace...
....to be available when needed.

Like an ace up my sleeve.
GREAT QUOTE.....Carry on!

"Beyond the blackened skyline, beyond the smoky rain, dreams never turned to ashes up until.........
...Everything CHANGED !!

thank you for sharing your story

thank you for sharing your story

"When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."

-Thomas Jefferson

objectivism

Well written. I didn't understand Ron Paul until after I had read a few books by Ayn Rand, especially Atlas Shrugged. I think the idea that we are all competent enough to judge the world objectively and doing anything less is to live as a slave is what brought me to being such a strong Paul supporter. Before Rand and somewhat before Heinlein, morality was a morass of ambiguity based on the judgments of others and my culture in general. If I were to try to convince anyone to become a libertarian, I would tell them that objectivism was the most important cornerstone of the process.

Ron Paul's genius is his unwavering commitment to telling his tale of what is objectively wise. That is common for an objectivist, but objectivists are rare.

WELL Written!

Atlasdaddy, you are wise beyond your years, no matter how old you are.

Electable Ron Paul is my hero.

Thank you.

Those are very kind words. I am 31 but I owe any wisdom that I may have to my father. He always said that I should hear twice what I say and see twice what I hear. Interestingly, I heard the same thing said about the new Pope of the Catholic church but that's another topic for another day.

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Cool story! One thing I'd

Cool story! One thing I'd like to add though is this sort of thing only works on someone who is willing to take a hard look at themselves. Luckily this gal was willing to do that. Most are not. However as the pain gets worse more will be forced to.

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

You have a great point.

That's something I know about her. She prides herself on having the answers. Being in the "know" is her comfort zone. The only thing I did was cast doubt on her little zone of know. The reason I did this was because, and I hate to say it, I was about to lose my temper. This argument was a grand show of wits. One that I was loosing on a spectacular level. That little sentence was my one and only card to play. Luckily, what I lack in the art of debate, I more than make up for in the skill of Poker.

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How well did it turn out?

I mean, did you manage to convince her to never vote again?

Here's a much better sentence to use when trying to wake up dullards: Voting is an act of aggression against your neighbor, and as such is a violation of the NAP.

Glad to hear you wake her up.

Hopefully she is in time to help lead us away from world war 3.

http://www.dailypaul.com/279736/petrodollar-collapse-world-w...

www.SuccessCouncil.com
Protect your assets and profit from the greatest wealth transfer in history.

During the Primary

I took a trip to Reno Nevada to stand outside caucus locations with Ron Paul materials, passing them out and talking to people who were about to enter.

I only encountered two people doing the same for other candidates Newt (the Newt guy basically left a sign up and went to get coffee), and a Romney supporter.

The Romney supporter was a middle aged white male (I being a 30 year old male at the time), who tried to be my buddy immediately, standing next to me and attempting to engage me in a "friendly" debate.

The crux of his argument hinged on the assertion that Ron Paul's ideas (though good) were too extreme and that I should agree to support the winning team. He just assumed that Romney could and would beat Obama, and that Ron Paul had no popularity or debating skills.

after I shot down every assertion he could make (inflation is good, Debt is ok, don't be afraid of government surveillance if you have nothing to hide), He leaned heavily on:

"Ron Paul is going to take votes away from the candidate who can beat Obama, and since he CAN'T win you are wasting your vote"

I had a big problem with someone telling me that one particular candidate CAN'T win a free election, and as his wife exited the Caucus he lost all his enthusiasm to debate me. I left him with a final thought:

"When Romney loses to Obama, will you have wasted your vote?"

he says to me (shocked):

"No I won't have wasted my vote because I will have voted for a two party candidate"

I suppose he forgot that Ron Paul was running for one of those spots at the time. At no point did this well dressed, full grown adult man ever put together a cogent argument, and all he wanted from me was my obedience.

I would love to know his thoughts now that the election is over and his guy lost.

Actually I am surprised

that this person, who was your former political adversary, had a constructive reaction--albeit over time--to your words, " It is impossible to support someone like Ron Paul, be ignorant, and willfully stupid at the same time."

Most people would take that as a direct insult, believing you implied they were ignorant and willfully stupid, and would use their own negativity / anger to further "vaccinate" themselves from your and RP's ideas.

This woman is clearly more sensible and possessing of greater humility than most! (Sheesh, for most people these days it seems as though to admit they are / were wrong would cause them to spontaneously combust.... Why are we such babies, for God's sake? Being so utterly weak while pretending to be strong [frontin'] seems the condition of the average American psyche, and it is certainly no help to political discourse / progress.)

What would the Founders do?

Hit the nail on the head.

"This woman is clearly more sensible and possessing of greater humility than most!" She was and I knew it before she knew it herself. Sometimes a well placed jab can bring a giant down better then two left hooks and a right upper cut.

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Indeed!

:) Good to be reminded--thanks.

What would the Founders do?

I dunno...

I tend to walk out of the room when debating stupidity and ignorance. I am too passionate about issues to keep a level head sometimes.

Great thread tho! :)

'Peace is a powerful message.' Ron Paul

Very insightful.

Supporting Ron Paul certainly involves an awakening and a certain fortitude to live with the fact that you are no longer part of the mainstream thinking.

I think it is very, very hard for people to accept what they have embraced for most of their lives is wrong and that they have been lied to and swindled. And denouncing the MSM is sacrilege...until they wake up and realize they have a brain and decide to use it.

The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.
Ron Paul - The Revolution

Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms. Ron Paul

I'd just like to add

about that: "losing the temper".. I include insults, it's not just losing the temper, but when the other person attacks with insults, name calling, they lost.

It was...

...worded that way for a reason. But, thanks for pointing it out anyway. :)

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'insults and name calling means they've lost'

Agreed. I guess that means I'm constantly winning! lol

There's a certain freedom that comes from anonymity. It undermines the tactic of ridicule.

I love when somebody has no response to what you're saying other than to try and ridicule you, or better yet, when they get SO desperate they start asking you personal questions like: "Who are YOU!? What do YOU do for a living!? What kind of degrees do YOU have!?"

It doesn't take a genius to figure out how these kind of people operate. Truth is a VERY hard thing to argue against or disprove (impossible). They can either acknowledge it, close their eyes, ears, and mouth to it, or attack the person who dared to speak it.

I appreciate what you've posted.

Well said!

deacon's picture

would you include

the downvotes to questions asked to a particular
person?
deacon

setting your expectations to high,can cause depression

It would depend

Because there are people who freely give downvotes with NO explaination, to me, they are not part of a debate.

How many times have you read a post (or made one) that asks: "Why the downvotes"?

While I do believe the vast majority of downvotes indicate disagreement(s) with the topic or reply post, unless the downvoter gives an explaination, one really doesn't KNOW, "why the downvote?". Some downvotes are nothing but vidictive and spitefull (by those who lost former debates and unwilling to openly debate in fear they will lose again).

(((((deacon))))))

deacon's picture

i can relate

i have read many that asked why the down votes
or asked questions and get them.like my first comment on this topic :)
it could be also peoples reactions to other people (sorta like
some might not like me,and just down vote out of spite)
shoot my friend,most of my questions get voted down
i just sit and scratch my head,thinking "how is one to learn if questions go unanswered?" some think a question is about them or a personal attack,instead of thinking,it was about my comment/post/topic ect ect
deacon

setting your expectations to high,can cause depression

debate 101.

.

I use Blue Wave, but don't expect one of THEIR silly taglines.

Beautiful.

Thank you!

"There is only one kind of freedom and that's individual liberty. Our lives come from our creator and our liberty comes from our creator. It has nothing to do with government granting it." -Ron Paul