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Recent Conversation(Interview) With a Coder Friend On Bitcoins

So I've been interested in Bitcoins lately, and I decided to ask some of my friends who are programmers on their thoughts about bitcoins. I was mostly interested in their thoughts on the security of the system. Here's a conversation I had earlier tonight: *The " - " Indicate my comments.

8:36pm
-What do you think about bitcoins? I guess I am wondering about how it looks from a coder's perspective.

I've not used them myself but I've heard nothing but good things. From an investment standpoint it's pretty solid. Buy $10 worth now, see what they are worth later. If you lose, who cares? lol

There are also ways to build them up for free and really stockpile them.

-Mining right/
-?

I think you have to do "paperclip trading"

-join up with a group of others and make small gains every time someone gets one

(The tupperware party method, lol)

-Like keep trading for something a little better than you had before?not sure i follow you

I just made up the term "Paperclip trading" but it comes from a real story where a guy started on craig'slist by trading a paperclip and a couple years later he had a $1 million vacation
Exactly
I think it's a bit different with bitcoins (no pun intended)
I think you have to slowly increase the value of other things to stock pile the bitcoins.

-lol, caleb I know you better than to think , any pun is unintended

Lol yup
Not so much unintended, but accidental and proud of it

-hmm, so what about from a security side
can you imagine that it's safe from a code perspective?

Probably. I think you're biggest worries would be the same as paypal. Can someone hack your password?
And are you spending your bitcoins on scams?

-true ,okay, well I've been looking into it ..I dismissed it when I read about it a year or so ago, and I have been giving it a fair chance lately

I think that some time in the future (a decade from now when bitcoins are a thing of the past) the servers will get hacked adn the value will collapse.

-So no long term investments -mostly because it's still a fiat currency, but I am fascinated of the impact it could have

I'm morally opposed to what it represents. Wealth that exists only because some small entity says it exists... But it provides the plumbing for an idea I've always had which is online bartering

-I'm sure governments will collude on this and hack it, as to undermine the integrity of it, and keep the focus on their controlled and inflated currency
-same here

So I'm willing to suspend that opposition

-same here--exactly
-hmmmm
-I kept arguing witha friend about it a few days ago, about how gold was real money--and bitcoin was fiat, but I realize the argument is kind of moot
-So, just in thinking about the code of it, can you see it being hacked easily
-beyond individual accounts
-So, you are of the opinion that it will be the predecessor but not the standard
-kind of like Magnavox Odyssey vs, PC, or playstation?

I predict it will collapse like any other web startup. Even wikipedia will eventually end.. and being that the internet has such an accelerated time frame, I don't think any website can predict still being around in 5 years
I love this part though:
Don't forget government taxes

Bitcoin is not an official currency. That said, most jurisdictions still require you to pay income, sales, payroll, and capital gains taxes on anything that has value, including Bitcoin..
Paying taxes in bitcoins? lol

-but they wouldn't actually know if someone owned a bitcoin or not, right?
-I have thought about that ---peter schiff brought up that point as well

Actually that's true
Based on the security info, nothing about your wallet is tied to your identity
I'm reading their security documentation and it's a lot less secure than I thought
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Securing_your_wallet
If someone grabs your wallet file, it's just an encrypted file. They can brute force it to get the password
I think you have to be pretty savvy in information security to keep it safe. Which is lame. I thought individual wallets sat behind their servers
The paper wallet idea is really cool, but probably a huge hassle.

-wow, paperwallet is really cool
-so, could you hack this, given enough time? / forsee someone doing it? Even more importantly , Would it be possible to have a mass hack on peoples' wallets, thereby creating a panic and drop in the value of bitcoin?

Definitely, but it wouldn't be until development to prevent new threats halts. Which is an eventuality for all projects.

-i see what your saying
hmm - so you think it's inevitably going to fail then because of the security

Yes
Government backed currency has at least one thing to say for itself... government force.

-sigh,...
-well, don't you think the developers who also have a vested interest (own bitcoins themselves) will see to it that it remains secure?

Well it's an open source project
So it has an easier route for exploiters to find exploits, but it also has that added feature that potential exploiters will identify exploits and submit a fix.

-would you put any money into it?

I actually might. But only money that I'm ready to lose. I would treat it like a gift card/lottery ticket instead of an investment. The money is already spent. Any new money I see out of it will be a pleasent suprise.

-I have a friend who put 1500 into it, he's hopeful, I just can't make up my mind
you've helped a lot though, i really appreciate your insight

No prob. Keep me updated with anything yo find out. I'd like to learn more.

I will for sure man -



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One red paperclip turned into a house

"A guy started on craigslist by trading a paperclip and..."
and he ended up with a house, not a vacation
http://oneredpaperclip.blogspot.com

It's a great story about original ideas paying off for the person who does it first.

Great you're looking into it but so much is wrong in this Convo

"I think that some time in the future (a decade from now when bitcoins are a thing of the past) the servers will get hacked adn the value will collapse."

can you explain which servers are going to get hacked? My understanding is that on a p2p network there are no central servers. the network it's self acts as the server so to hack it would mean you would have to hack millions of computers simultaneously.

"-So no long term investments -mostly because it's still a fiat currency, but I am fascinated of the impact it could have"

Bitcoins is not FIAT, there is no force or coercion behind bitcoins. It's purly a voluntary free market currency.

"I'm morally opposed to what it represents. Wealth that exists only because some small entity says it exists... But it provides the plumbing for an idea I've always had which is online bartering."

What small entity says it exists? How can you be morally opposed to something that enhances individual liberty?

"I'm sure governments will collude on this and hack it, as to undermine the integrity of it, and keep the focus on their controlled and inflated currency"

You're sure? Well if you are sure please explain how they would because no one has. Again how can you hack something that isn't centralized?

"I think you have to be pretty savvy in information security to keep it safe. Which is lame. I thought individual wallets sat behind their servers
The paper wallet idea is really cool, but probably a huge hassle."

Im not pretty savy and I made an offline encrypted wallet that is close to near impossible to be hacked. 1. it's in my physical possession. 2. it's encrypted. If your friend is reading about it while he's talking to you, that means he hasn't really looked into it. I'd take all he says with a grain of salt.

Honestly, Im not saying your programmer friend isn't smart or knowledgeable but based on what I see here, he's an idiot. Don't feel bad, I got a programmer friend who was adamantly against Bitcoin. We got into multiple discussions in which his ignorance was on full display. Since then he has apologized and admitted I was right the whole time and he was just holding on to his preconceived notions without really investigating what Bitcoin was. So, don't put faith in these programmers, go research and learn Bitcoin for your self. I did, with very limited programming knowledge and still I found it relatively simple to understand. It took about a week but I got it down enough where I felt comfortable trading my FIAT paper dollars for Bitcoins.

I also have a programmer friend

Who is a mathematician and studies cryptography as a hobby. He is the first one that told me about Bitcoins in 2010. He was really into it and said the concept to him was nearly full proof and pretty much un-hack-able in the foreseeable future. This programmer is an idiot.

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    Some good points, others are off base

    Firstly, it is a fiat currency. Fiat has a few definitions, and one of them is that the currency has no intrinsic value . Bitcoin doesn't so it is, indeed fiat. Ron Paul has said this, himself.

    The small entity he's referring to are the founders of bitcoin; those who profit the most from it. You are right though, it does have positives like enhancing individual liberty.

    You have a lot of great points, but something I would definitely not say about him, is that he is an idiot. Like you said he doesn't know a lot about it yet. These are just some of his early thoughts after reading a bit on it.

    Regardless of how quick you are, there's no way that you're going to understand the intricacies of a system like this and the innumerable risks and possibilities for exploitation the way someone who codes for a living does, in a short time. I don't have time to invest into gaining that kind of insight.

    ughh

    Talk about the blind leading the blind.... most of that article was conjecture and speculation. The "coder" even acknowleged he didn't know much about bitcoin.

    Painful to read

    lol, That was a horrible unintelligent conversation about Bitcoins but at least they are looking into it.... That's more than you can say about the haters who will Bash it in an ignorant rant and to their own detriment.

    "Interview" suggests some

    "Interview" suggests some level of expertise on the subject being discussed with the interviewee. This is more like a casual conversation...with numerous spelling errors.

    True

    I changed the title to reflect that.

    Interesting: Pay the

    Interesting:

    Pay the Government with Bitcoin? Leading Municipal Software company announces support for Bitcoin
    http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1b63xq/pay_the_gove...

    http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-03-28/bitcoin-may-...

    $1,000,000,000 "market cap": check. Next? - www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1b5upq/1000000000_market_c...