4 votes

Look what I just found out : Dr.Esselstyn accident

For those of you who know this great doctor.

http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35628

This is who this great man is:


http://youtu.be/EqKNfyUPzoU




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My great grandfather started

My great grandfather started a meat market in the 1800's. He ate Raw meat (steaks and ground) and lived to 97. In his 70's he still handled sides and quarters by himself! Did I mention he drank a 1/5th of whiskey everyday and smoked? He was on his feet active right to the end. I have known people to jog everyday, eat right, and die under 60. I just don't think we can control how long we live. It's up to a higher authority.

Your assessment is not sound

Put 25 people in a study with dietary habits identical to your Granfather, then put 25 others on Essylstiens program and I am betting the farm the greater percentage of health late in life will be toward those on the plant based diet.

For Freedom!
The World is my country, all mankind is my brethren, to do good is my religion.

Not Defending Eating Meat

but I know several people in their mid nineties that eat tons of pork and beef and are healthy as can be.

skippy

Eating untold servings of meat swimming in BBQ

sauce ought to be vigorously defended.

Eating meat is healthful.

Eating meat is healthful. About its affect on weight, it and its fat will slim you. (It has me. And it kept man slim since time immemorial.) As well, there's no better source of iron than from meat because of its blood. So, if you're iron deficient, eat meat. It's got more iron than any other food including spinach. Hopefully the meat you'd eat is clean.

School's fine. Just don't let it get in the way of thinking. -Me

Study nature, not books. -Walton F. Dutton

Here's a video of Esselstyn doing what I'm talking about.

At about 5:44 Esselstyn discusses the Nazi occupation of Norway in WW2. He says that during the war the deaths from heart disease dropped in Norway because the Nazis took the Norwegians animals, so they had no meat and dairy products to eat.

This might sound fine to the uninitiated, but on second thought, it's ludicrous.

1. If the occupying Nazis took the Norwegians animals, why would they stop at that? The Nazis likely took anything they wanted, including grain, sugar, alcohol, and tobacco. (There is a lot of evidence that grains and sugar are causes of heart disease)

2. Heart disease takes time to develop and time to reverse. So this "they took the farm animals and heart disease went away" thing is an over simplification.

3. Regardless of #2 above, during times of war and occupation, great numbers of people die from starvation and the associated diseases, not to mention acts of war. It is likely that many Norwegians who would of died from all sorts of other causes, including heart disease, died from starvation, disease associated with malnourishment and things like being shot.

4. During war and occupation, how accurate are records such as autopsy records compared to times of peace? How many people are not autopsied because there are so many deaths that they are just buried?

So Esselstyn ignores a lot to use this as evidence to support his case.

Resist the temptation to feed the trolls.

Wow, look what just hit the press...

More evidence

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/08/health/study-points-to-new...

Culprit in Heart Disease Goes Beyond Meat’s Fat

It was breakfast time and the people participating in a study of red meat and its consequences had hot, sizzling sirloin steaks plopped down in front of them. The researcher himself bought a George Foreman grill for the occasion, and the nurse assisting him did the cooking.
Enlarge This Image

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In a study, meat eaters who ate steak showed a burst of a chemical that increases risk.
For the sake of science, these six men and women ate every last juicy bite of the 8-ounce steaks. Then they waited to have their blood drawn.

Dr. Stanley Hazen of the Cleveland Clinic, who led the study, and his colleagues had accumulated evidence for a surprising new explanation of why red meat may contribute to heart disease. And they were testing it with this early morning experiment.

For Freedom!
The World is my country, all mankind is my brethren, to do good is my religion.

Cholesterol, Statins, The Truth Revealed

Resist the temptation to feed the trolls.

What your saying is nonsense

Where's your study?

For Freedom!
The World is my country, all mankind is my brethren, to do good is my religion.

Nonsense? Where's his study?

Nonsense?

Where's his study?

Resist the temptation to feed the trolls.

They have done the studies

You are misleading by using speculation on what the Nazi's did or didn't do to the Norwegians.
Conversely, Dr. Essylstien has the findings and research. His studies have also been agreed upon by:

Caldwell Campbell
Dean Ornish
Dr. MerCola
Dr. Oz
McDougal
Mark Hyman

And many more.

Also note the body composition of these doctors , then look at the ones that proclaim he's a fraud....the naysayers are mostly overweight. I'm not pointing that out to be funny but think about it. The more fat and girth you have the more your heart must work to deliver blood.

It's simply common sense. We've all read Guns Germ and Steel so if that is your information source then spare it, bring some real data to the table

;-)

All in good fun

.

For Freedom!
The World is my country, all mankind is my brethren, to do good is my religion.

How about you show us proof

How about you show us proof that the Nazis did not take the Norwegians' grain and sugar during the occupation. Or at least speculate as to why they wouldn't take those things along with anything else they wanted.

Caldwell Campbell
Dean Ornish
Dr. MerCola
Dr. Oz
McDougal
Mark Hyman

All of those guys, except for Mercola, are just repeating the same disinfo. That does not make them right.

And Dr. Essylstien is simply making speculations and giant leaps and convincing you that it's hard science.

Resist the temptation to feed the trolls.

Esselstyn and McDougall are frauds

Esselstyn and McDougall are frauds. They cherry pick and twist data from studies and history to suit their beliefs.

All of the longevity cultures consume varying animal products in varying amounts. Esselstyn and McDougall tend to leave out those details when citing Dr. Price's studies.

"Dr. Weston Price, an eclectic and brilliant dentist, went around the world nearly 80 year ago to find those people who lived the longest lives without developing chronic health conditions. He studied 12 such communities and found that nutrition was the key component in their (long lives), as well as exercise and a feeling of belonging to a supportive group. Some of the people ate a lot of animal based foods, some ate mostly seafoods, some ate mostly vegetarian with sparse animal products, but none of them ate processed, packaged, sweetened, trans fat containing foods."

From - http://www.scnm.edu/nutrition.html

Resist the temptation to feed the trolls.

I think that's rather a harsh assessment

Since I'm living proof of the wonderful benefits of a plant based diet. My quality of life has improved 100% and with those type of results you will have a hard time convincing me otherwise.

For Freedom!
The World is my country, all mankind is my brethren, to do good is my religion.

You qualify as a case study

You qualify as a case study for his reply..

Because you don't eat " but none of them ate processed, packaged, sweetened, trans fat containing foods."

You just happen to not eat meat also.

It's an accurate assessment.

It's an accurate assessment.

Eat whatever you like. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm just stating that those two and others like them are frauds.

Resist the temptation to feed the trolls.

I think his plant based diet

I think his plant based diet works because you would eliminate many refined carbs. But I believe a lifestyle diet like Primal Blueprint is much healthier.

Do you mean paleo?

Please share

For Freedom!
The World is my country, all mankind is my brethren, to do good is my religion.

Paleo/Primal

www.marksdailyapple.com

www.robbwolf.com

“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.”
― Albert Camus

Glad to know he's recovering

Since following his recommendations to avoid meat and dairy, it's amazing how much better I've felt.

btw, I just posted a video I hope people will check out. It's about factory farms, entitled "Glass Walls." A very disturbing video but one the public should see if we have any hope of stopping the horrendous practices of factory farms.

http://youtu.be/sTifP6idBPs

After seeing what goes on in slaughterhouses, it's no wonder to me that meat and dairy are linked to cancer and heart disease (as well as arthritis, diabetes, etc).

Been eating clean for several years now

And I'm healthier than I have ever been.

For Freedom!
The World is my country, all mankind is my brethren, to do good is my religion.

There's a difference between

There's a difference between the meat and dairy most people consume compared to meat of and dairy from animals raised naturally.

About milk, I invite you to watch the independent video walkthrough and question-and-answer period with dairy man Mark McAfee of Organic Pastures in "The Whole Truth about Milk: Pasteurized vs. Raw." It's a little longer than two hours. A second disc is in this package. The second CD is an interview with naturopath doctor David Getoff. Both discs are, if my recall serves me, 220 minutes.

I've drunken OP milk since 2007. It's done me a lot of good, including regrowing bone in my jaw without any defect after the removal of the damnedest thing a dentist can do to someone at the end of surgery, put a collagen plug into it. Any plug does one thing only: stanch blood flow, thereby negate the purpose for surgery -- to remove gangrenous bone -- and, of course, negate the surgery and worsen problems and/or create new ones. A plug of any kind anywhere in the body does not promote bone growth. This milk will.

Additionally, research AMA and ADA journals of at least 90 years ago. Home in on dentists and doctors who used milk to treat disease. Its benefits are many and include the cleaning of blood. Among the names, if names move you, is Mayo, the name of that "world renown" hospital whose beginning was humble, a clinic. The Mayo Clinic is long gone, but at least its name remains. A reminder of what it was.

The difference between what the meat and dairy most people drink and what thinking people drink is -- giant.

School's fine. Just don't let it get in the way of thinking. -Me

Study nature, not books. -Walton F. Dutton

night and day

like the difference between night and day.

Here, night and days spells

Here, night and days spells bingo. You got it, befree. Bingo. :)

Hey, by chance, have you retrieved the name or names of the acupuncturist(s) in my neck of the woods?

School's fine. Just don't let it get in the way of thinking. -Me

Study nature, not books. -Walton F. Dutton

yes, A-B--B-A

I will try and catch you in chat!!

If there is one thing you can

If there is one thing you can probably get most people to agree with, its that all the hormones and chemicals they put in commercial stuff is not going to be good for you.

To climb the mountain, you must believe you can.

You got it!I was going to

You got it!

I was going to write in my comment that having clean blood is the basis of health.

Anyway, as said, you got it -- hormones, chemical, homogenization and the worst, pasteurization, are bad. Pasteurization kill all the life in the milk, which in time morphs into a cesspool. <---- That's what the anti milk and meat argument is absent EACH time. Pasteurization kills milk, become rotten (a synonym for necrotic).

Amazing, isn't it? People are drinking dead, or rotted, substance. No wonder people are allergic to milk, of which the enzyme lactace is missing because pasteurization cooked it to death, yes, cooked it to death. Lactace dissolves the sugar lactose. Ding! Aye, some people, huh, Virginian? They just don't apply sense.

EDIT (4/8/12):

Additionally, no wonder there are links from milk and meat to cancer. Yes, from dead then rotting milk and diseased meat -- probably eaten often and in large portions while exercising little or none.

School's fine. Just don't let it get in the way of thinking. -Me

Study nature, not books. -Walton F. Dutton

I can tell you one thing, I

I can tell you one thing, I think alot of people lack the senses to pick up on this fact. I mean, after just about 4-5 days max, I cant stand store bought milk. Not only does it start smelling bad to me, it doesnt taste that good either. However, everyone else is like "theres nothing wrong with it, it tastes fine." Although I have a particularly good sense of smell and taste.

To climb the mountain, you must believe you can.