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Lesbian for Liberty, Endorses Ron Paul!




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What we need now

are some transgendered jews to get aboard the Ron Paul Bus.

It's a good thing..

Whether we like the video or not, having the LGB.. whatever the last letter is ?? wake up and support LIBERTY and FREEDOM is a good thing. If others see this and it gets them thinking then I support it.

Garnet
Daughter of 1776 American Revolutionists

I'm sick to death of this already.

Who cares?????? Now maybe if you had entitled your post "For Liberty" I would have watched your video. Until then, get out of my face.

I have a foot fetish,

yeah, dats right, I love me some feet, and I'm for Ron Paul. I'm not an american for RP, or a carolinian for RP, or even a human being for RP, but a foot-fetishist for RP. Feet-yeah, big, small, ugly, smelly - it don't mean nuttin, whatever, I just love me some feet. I'm gone make me a post bout foot fetish freaks(FFF) for Ron Paul.

lol

and us big nose lovers are so under-represented too, /sigh

yeah, this whole interest group mentality thing is pretty silly, who cares about people's love lives, what a disaster to have involved gov't in the equation in the first place, and if you don't hop on the bandwagon with everyone else supporting certain rights for certain people, they label you as narrow-minded or evil, it's frustrating

Amen

another protected group

Why do I care what

her orientation is?

That's the kind of divisive info we do not need as like-minded citizens. It needs to go away - then the MSM, et al, will have less fuel for creating false, angry, divisive memes.

The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.
Ron Paul - The Revolution

Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms. Ron Paul

collectivists are never for liberty

I won't even watch the vid. I don't care what she does in the privacy of her own home and see no reason why she needs to flaunt her sexual preferences on YT. "She's part of 'that' group" is what the title of this thread says to me - collectivists glorifying the most base instinct of human behavior. I will always believe it extremely sad that anyone feels the need to define themselves by a sex act. It's pathetic.
Go on. Downvote me for thinking humans are supposed to be better than that.

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

Would you say the same about

Would you say the same about a video "Christians for Liberty"?

Saying you're a lesbian

makes you part of a collection but it doesn't make you a collectivist. To be a collectivist you must believe that the good of the collective is more important than the good of the individual.

Wow.

Having a different sexual orientation than you means someone is a collectivist?

That makes absolutely no sense.

Ironically, it is you who are behaving like a collectivist by prejudging someone based on sexual preference.

Congratulations, I'm awarding you with 'Most asinine comment of the day'.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

your reading comprehension is nil

I never said what you accuse me of. Read my words again.
Unless the title of this thread is misleading, that 'she' person defines herself by her sexual antics and intentionally or not, immediately places herself herself into the LGTB collective, and that collective defines itself by one thing - sex.
Or does 'lesbian' denote something else I'm not aware of?

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

You call yourself heterosexual....

does that make you a collectivist?

If you call yourself a Ron Paul Supporter does that make you a collectivist?

If you call your self a Christian does that make you a collectivist?

You call yourself a human, does that make you a collectivist?

You call yourself an American, does that make you a collectivist?

I define myself as a libertarian, does that make me a collectivist?

Does simply belonging to a demographic or group and describing yourself as part of a group of demographic make you a collectivist?

Is using labels to communicate to other people what you believe in collectivist?

Is every gay/lesbian a collectivist if they call them self gay or lesbian?

If someone calls them self a firefighter, a veteran, a doctor, or a lawyer are they a collectivist?

Do you consider anyone who describes them self as part of a group as a collectivist, or only people who belong to groups you don't like?

Your criteria for what constitutes a collectivist is pretty flimsy.

P.S. How would you even know how she defines herself if you didn't even bother to watch the video? That's called blind assumption.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

Answering JoshArizona's questions

//If one calls themselves a hetrosexual does that make you a collectivist?//

Being hetrosexual is assumed to be the norm is society, so NO, identifying oneself as a hetrosexual is more likely to happen only when someone assumes a hetrosexual is homosexual, and askes them, "Are you homosexual?" Ither than that, hetrosexuals have no need to identify themselves.. they are the norm.

//If you call yourself a Ron Paul Supporter does that make you a collectivist?//

Calling yourself a Ron Paul supporter identifies your political interest, which in Ron Paul's case, because of his political position, which is not collectivist, saying, "I'm a Ron Paul supporter is like saying, "I'm not a collectivist, but an individual".

//If you call your self a Christian does that make you a collectivist?//

No, identifiying yourself as a Christian expresses your spiritual position, belief. With over 300 Christian denominations in the USA alone, there could be collectivism with in, but from my own experience, most Christians I know see the state as slavery and Christ as freedom from that slavery. There is a communion among Christians, but that is based on LOVE and FAITH, not politics.

//You call yourself a human, does that make you a collectivist?//

No, identifying yourself as human, many times is a form of apology, for to err is human.

//You call yourself an American, does that make you a collectivist?//

No, Identifying yourself as an American expresses your nationalality.

//I define myself as a libertarian, does that make me a collectivist?//

No, Identifying yourself as a Libertarian expresses your political interest, which as a libertarian is the opposite of a collectivist. That does not mean you can not work with others, or give others credit, or say "we".. all it means is that you respect yourself as an individual with inalienable rights you are willing to fight to keep the collewctivsts from taking from you.

//Does simply belonging to a demographic or group and describing yourself as part of a group of demographic make you a collectivist?//

It would depend on the demographic Group. For example, if you identified yourself as a community organizer that wants to grab all guns from the area which you lived, and worked with others as informants, worked to "set people up" to have them controlled by force.. then you would be a collectivist. If you indentified yourself as an event organizer and created an event with bands and speakers and food, vending for a demographic group, that would not be a collectivist, especially if you profitted off it.

//Is using labels to communicate to other people what you believe in collectivist?//

No, it's labing yourself is selling yourself. You want to sell yourself as a certian kind of person, that is your business. To think that everyone wants to buy what you are selling is rather nieve about sales. When you lable others, that is a form of collectivism, for you are selling that person out with YOUR lable, not theirs.

//Is every gay/lesbian a collectivist if they call them self gay or lesbian?//

NO, If I asked you out, assuming you were hetrosexual, the norm, and you told me, "Hey, I like you Grange, but honestly, you're not my type. I really have a thing for guys that look like Ru Paul and that's how I found Ron Paul, but thank you sweety". I would not think of you as a collectivist. You have the right to lable/sell yourself. You could wear a Ru Paul tee shirt to Ron Paul events, and I would not think of you as a collectivist, unless you came in a bus with a group of people wearing Ru Paul tee shirts and demanded Ron Paul supporters accept your group or you will use the government to force us to accept your group.. then you would be collectivist.

//If someone calls them self a firefighter, a veteran, a doctor, or a lawyer are they a collectivist//

No, a person who identifies themselves by profession is only telling you where they get the money to pay their taxes.

//Do you consider anyone who describes them self as part of a group as a collectivist, or only people who belong to groups you don't like?//

It depends on the group. When you identify yourself as a libertarian, for the most part, you are saying, you believe that as an individual the constitution/Bill of Rights gives you the freedom to do what you want that is not hurting anyone else. It's your body and you believe you have the right to do what you want with your body. It's your money, and you have the right to spend your money as you please as long as you please, which few do better than the Koch brothers.

//P.S. How would you even know how she defines herself if you didn't even bother to watch the video? That's called blind assumption.//

The fact the top post identifies the Ron Paul supporter as a lesbian, is a HUGE turnoff to many libertarians who frankly don't give a damn what another's sexual orientation or preference here. Lables are made for sales. I didn't watch the video because of the word lesbisan.. I'm NOT interested. I'm VERY INTERESTED in LIBERTY.. I could careless i8f that person was a lesbian or not.

With ALL this said... perhaps you can recall, for DP has had many posts made by those who opposed Ron Paul because he did not want the federal government involved with marriage.. collectivists want the federal government to FORCE others to do their will. Collectivists believe YOU OWE the COLLECTIVE.

There are many homosexuals who have NOTHING to do with the gay and lesbian community because they have NO interest in being part of a group that forces people to accept them, or change the world for them.

http://freedomkeys.com/collectivism.htm

How can it be that calling

How can it be that calling yourself an American is not collectivist, but calling yourself a lesbian is? In both cases you are identifying yourself with a larger community.

I don't think either label is particularly collectivist, but I don't understand this distinction.

You say: "No, Identifying yourself as an American expresses your nationalality."

Can't I just as easily say "identifying yourself as a lesbian expresses your sexual orientation" ?

Absolutely right. Besides

Absolutely right. Besides which, there is no nationality called "American". Being an "American" means being a U.S. citizen. I am ethnic English. There are ethnic Africans in the United States, and no one who understands nationality would claim that they and I share nationality. What we have here in America is a multi-national community.

Nation comes from the latin "natio" and means, roughly, "race". That is how you can have the black "Nation of Islam", even though they are all U.S. citizens.

Yes

I agree with you.

As individuals we really don't care what your natioanl or sexual orientation is.

What if the top post said: "American for Liberty"?

Since most of us are Americans, I would think such a top post would raise eyebrows. Why make the national distinction?

So for the top post to express: "Lesbian for Liberty", since most here (and in the world) are hetrosexual, by employing sexual orientation, eyebrows again would be raised for another reason, "why is being a lesbian important?"

Many here, including myself, really don't care what a persona's sexual orientation is. It's considered personal and private.

What if the top post said, "Marijuana smokers for Liberty?"

While many people here believe marijuana should be legal, they would be interested in what kind of collective angle the poster would be employing, so they could see if they agree or not.

If you opened the "marijuana smokers for Liberty" post, and read,

We the Marijuana Smokers for Liberty have united to FORCE the government to legalize marijuana." I for one would be downvoting the post, as I want marijuana decriminalized and I see legaization as government FORCE.

I believe the title of this top post should reflect the value within the post: LIBERTY.

What's being a lesbian have to do with liberty? Nothing.

What does force mean to

What does force mean to you?

People who want to legalize marijuana aren't trying to force anyone to use marijuana. They want to make the person decision use it themselves without having a government tell them they can't.

If you advocate the elimination of the Fed, is that force? What about social security?

As for the labeling of "marijuana smokers for liberty' being superfluous, perhaps not. I'm not sure why there is anythign wrong with a liberty-minded group that focuses on one issue, such as drug policy. I see it the same as being a group called "Homeschooling Association for Sensible Education Policy" that focuses on the homeschooling movement, or "Gun Owner's for Liberty"

Force to me is making change aganist another's will.

I'm not saying that legalizing marijuana has anything to do with who uses it or not.

Legalizing marijuana gives the state the power to FORCE people to PAY TAXES, forces rules and regulations to adopt laws that FORCE people how, when, where and why they use marijuana.. it puts marijuana in control of the state, not the individual.

Advocating the elimination of ending the fed is not employing force, but rather advocating the elimination of force by economic manipulation, and ending the misconception that the fed is government.

As for social security.. Ron Paul is advocating that there be an opt out for those who don't want to depend on the state, and believe they can do better. There's no force implied that I can see.

I would see a homescholling association as a collective, unless their mission statement explicitly claimed that the individual has the right to belong to the association and not participate without threat of elimination.

Gun Owners for Liberty, I would not see as a collective, but again, I would have to read their mission statement.

Sometimes, people come together to accomplish something, like a homeowners association, which forces tenants.. for example.. I knew a women that was very sensitive to pesticides, off gases. When her home owners association (she lived in a condo) contracted a pesticide company, she made her case to them about her medical sensitivity.. they didn't care. She had to leave her home for months before she could return and not be sick.. they didn't care. And when she died weeks after returning home, they were happy they lost a pest.

That is a collective.. they don't care about YOU, collectives care about what THEY as a group want.. YOU be damned.

OH NO!

He has critical thinking skills!

Quick, downvote him!

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

I'm an individual

"COLLECTIVISM: Collectivism is defined as the theory and practice that makes some sort of group rather than the individual the fundamental unit of political, social, and economic concern. In theory, collectivists insist that the claims of groups, associations, or the state must normally supersede the claims of individuals."
Are you denying that the LGTB collective isn't making demands of political and social concerns?
You should have apologized for misreading my comment. But instead, you sit in judgement of me. Here's something you need to remember, everytime you point your finger, there are 3 pointing back at you.
I wonder, will you also go after the other commenters who also find this post less than agreeable? Or will you just go after me who you falsely accuse?
As to your P.S. - why would the OP write that in his/her headline if it weren't true? Are you calling the OP a liar?
And I see you refused to answer my question - does 'lesbian' denote anything other than sex?

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

In case you missed them...

there were eleven questions in the above reply, and you didn't even attempt to answer one of them.

I'll answer your question, Lesbian means a woman who is sexually attracted to another woman.

It's irrelevant, because simply being a lesbian does not make someone a collectivist.

Now, why don't you attempt to answer just one of my questions, how about this one:

Do you consider anyone who describes them self as part of a group as a collectivist, or only people who belong to groups you don't like?

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

I gave you a thumbs up for good questions

But Josh. What heterosexual goes around defining oneself as such let alone goes around being obnoxious about it?

Perhaps you are right that the woman in the video does not define herself that way, but the poster did. I'll never know because of the title. I just don't care. Obviously, many people do care. To me, it's like there is an in your face agenda with the aid of the media to get the masses in a frenzy over sexual identity. It's just as bad as the govt/media gun control agenda. Can't there be just one place in this country where the govt and it's conspirators leave me alone?

If someone identifies them self as what they are,...

are they then a collectivist?

If a Christian identifies them self as a Christian are they then a collectivist?

Do you see the point I'm making?

Labeling yourself as something does not make you a collectivist.

If that is all it took to be a collectivist, then every human being on this earth would be a collectivist.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

lebelling one's self as a lesbian

automatically puts that person in the LGBT collective, does it not? You are totally dismissing what you accused me of and are now making it all about the word 'collectivist'. Don't play slight of hand with me. It's apparent you can't be honest, so I'm done with you.

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

I was kind enough to answer your question...

but you haven't answered a single one of mine.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

I see your point

My hard drive died recently and I lost a lot of valuable information that I had saved. One of the things that I lost was a quote by Thomas Jefferson that said something to the effect that he was sure you are a good Christian by your deeds, but that he never saw the need to identify oneself because one's actions speak louder than words. Now I can no longer find that quote. The point being, even Jefferson did not see the need to label oneself.

And what better example of this is Martin Luther King Jr's famous, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

Labels exist for a reason...

they describe things.

You use them everyday and they are necessary to communicating with other people, they are called nouns.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

Lables are for sales

I went to a cock fight decades ago. I found it very interesting that before the fight, the cock owners walk around the areana showing their birds.. people in the bleachers make bets with each other. $50 Green Hat.. $20 black shirt.. and so on.. By saying "green hat", you didn't know anything about the person who was showing their cock, but you did know who you were betteing against.

Personal lables.. "lesbian", really isn't necesary to sell Liberty.

So why is being a lesbian important to liberty? As a liberty lover, I could care less what anyone's sexual orientation is.

Why is sexual orientation so important to you?

I don't get it.

Labels are more detrimental

Labels are more detrimental in my opinion especially in the current political system because of the way they're typically handled. We've grown so accustomed to politicizing them to the point where the individual doesn't matter much anymore, we use them for gains instead of merely in passing conversation or social gatherings. And since gay issues are such a hot-button issue now, labeling one's self as gay does place emphasis on the interest group mentality above the individual, probably because of the amount of coverage it's received.