6 votes

What Is Science?


1)The Second Law of Thermodynamics
In an isolated system, the amount of usable energy tends to decrease.

"Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, ALL OF THEM SHALL WAX OLD LIKE A GARMENT; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:" (Psalm 102:26-27 KJV)

2)"...things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."
Hebrews 11:3

“The best statement of the atomic theory that literature contains is found in the eleventh chapter of Hebrews, in the third verse….Dr. Millikan received the Nobel Prize of almost two score thousand dollars for proving this theory. Paul the Apostle did not receive so much as a dime for anticipating the discoveries of Millikan by eighteen centuries!" (Harry Rimmer, “The Harmony of Science and Scripture,” 1936)

3)He that sitteth upon the circle of the earth (Isaiah 40:22)

4)He hangs the earth upon nothing (Job 26:7)

5)The morning stars sang together (Job 38:7)

"The sounds emitted by stars light years away from Earth have been captured by British astronomers using Nasa's Kepler space telescope.
Writing in the journal Science, the team says the "music" created by the stars gives a much more accurate picture of their size and structure than was available previously." (BBC News - Structure of stars revealed by 'music' they emit)

6)Star differs from star in glory (1 Corinthians 15:41)

7)There is a way light is parted (Job 38:24)

8)"The host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured" (Jeremiah 33:22)

9)"Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not" (Job 25:5)

10)Light dwells in a way; darkness has a place (Job 38:19)

11)"Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?" (Job 38:31)

“The cluster of the PLEIADES is... unlike many such open clusters, it is not breaking up. It is the classic example of a ‘bound’ cluster." [i.e. "Frontiers of Astronomy" by Prof. F. Hoyle, p. 236,]

"The constellation of ORION is one of the most outstanding star groupings in the heavens….Despite its size of about 350 light years diameter and despite the vast quantities of gas and dust it contains, the whole system is gravitationally unstable and is steadily expanding outwards" [i.e. 2. "The Oscillating Universe," by Prof. E. Opik, pp. 96-101.]

12)"Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them." (Psalm 139:16)

"Human code SPELLED OUT in three billion DNA ‘letters’...Half a century after scientists in Cambridge first unveiled DNA’s double helix molecular structure, an international team yesterday unveiled an accurate DNA recipe – genome – of a human being." (telegraph.co.uk, 2003)

18)"By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?" (Job 38:24)

14)"The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits." (Ecclessiates 1:6)

15)"Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea?" (Job 38:16)

16)Channels of the sea (2 Samuel 22:16)

17)Mountains under the sea (Jonah 2:6)

18)"Unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again." (Ecclesiastes 1:7)

19)Waters that be above the heavens (Psalm 148:4)

20)"The life of the flesh is in the blood" (Leviticus 17:11)


The LORD[YHUH] our God the LORD[YHUH] one
(Deuteronomy 6:4, Mark 12:29)

"The fear of the LORD[YHUH} is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction." (Proverbs 1:7)

"Whatever the degree of your knowledge, these two—existence and consciousness—are axioms you cannot escape, these two are the irreducible primaries implied in any action you undertake, in any part of your knowledge and in its sum, from the first ray of light you perceive at the start of your life to the widest erudition you might acquire at its end. Whether you know the shape of a pebble or the structure of a solar system, the axioms remain the same: that it exists and that you know it." (Galt’s Speech, For the New Intellectual, 124)

"And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them. Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any." (Isaiah 44:7-8)

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I was asked

"Why don't you post a new comment at the top about something that you are VERY sure is science in the bible. I will see if I can't prove that it is not."

I want to mention the book of Job. Some scholars date this book to 400 BC, although most agree it's much older. The book tells the story of a conversation between the Creator and Job. Job is given a science test, 40 questions if my memory is correct. Job is unable to answer any of them.

Here is a good one:

"Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof," Job 38:19 KJV

The observation(some might call it a theory) here is that light dwells in a way. It is in motion. Darkness, on the contrary, is in a place. It is stationary.

Empedocles(490–430 BC) claimed that light has a finite speed. He maintained that light was something in motion, and therefore must take some time to travel. He is credited as the first to make such a claim. But doesn't the book of Job deserve equal credit?

"The thought of Aristotle (384-322 BC) dominated western science for nearly two millenia. So powerful is his cosmology that it compels him to declare that '... light is due to the presence of something, but it is not a movement'" MacKay, RH; Oldford, RW (2000). "Scientific Method, Statistical Method and the Speed of Light".

I could list a number of different experiments that have since proved Empedocles and the book of Job correct, and Aristotle wrong. They made observations, formed their theories, and now those theories have been tested exhaustively. The motion of light mentioned in the book of Job is a fact of science, now confirmed.

Thank you very much for both this thread and

this post. I had understood some of the post before, but this makes the rest of it much more clear.

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

You're welcome

The credit is not really mine, but thanks. Keep an eye out for these. There are many more. Also, Bear has got me thinking about a similar list of prophecies in the scripture. I've seen some good ones lately.

one answer

Science is the comparison of mathematical models of physical events and phenomena (imagined pictures which fundamentally exist in the minds of men based on guesses about how the physical world works) with experimental observations of those physical events and phenomena (perceived to be quantitatively and objectively measured in the physical world).

In short: The comparison of imagined pictures with physical data.

There's observational science

And there's historical science..that latter of which is filled with much BS.

we live in a world of

we live in a world of constants and variables, where the orderly constants refuse to listen to the possible variables

if i were to take a

if i were to take a gander?

what is science?

I got it

The manifestation of magic

Sorry :P

you're closer to the truth

than some here may realize

Cyril's picture

What is science?

What is science? Science is that thing which is...

very respectable. Very much so. Science is knowledge on records, articulated through rational reasonings, with observations and tangible reproducible experiments in the models proposed, in an endless REFINING process of hypotheses and models.

But, what is the COINAGE of scientific reasoning?

Logics and logical language. And here is the greatest HUMILITY lesson for science, that we know, now, ought not be worshiped as being "complete":

in the PUREST, hardest, most dry representative form of science, Mathematics, Godel's incompleteness theorems. The ultimate humility lesson for science, for AND by itself:


The disappointing answer, proven, to Hilbert's program.


We should not feel bitter. It was only the final, definitive blow that contradicts any claim of opposition or any requirements between science and faith, that we know, now, orthogonal, unrelated to each other - thanks to Kurt Godel. But that removes nothing from the moral values that we can, and we should, IMO, put in either science, faith, or better yet: both.

After such results, though: whoever denying, rejecting one - science or faith - on the sole basis of the other being so-called "incompatible", is, IMO, either GROSSLY IGNORANT, or pursuing a VERY personal, specific agenda, that they MUST disclose if they are being honest.

Or else: I kindly ask them to DISPROVE Godel's results in science.

I wish them VERY GOOD LUCK with that. I'd suggest they start working on it now.


"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius


I am no mathematician, and I had never heard of Godel or Hilbert. I need to break it down into simple terms.

Then I beheld all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun: because though a man labour to seek it out, yet he shall not find it; yea further; though a wise man think to know it, yet shall he not be able to find it.


Are we in the same ballpark?

Cyril's picture

I shall not give a religious interpretation to Godel's results

I shall not give a religious interpretation to Godel's results here as this wasn't my point.

I was only pointing out:

whoever claims to have a serious interest in science and the purest form of its formal discovery processes, Mathematics - "the science of that which is or is not" - and the now known - to all who can read - limits thereof, better not ignore the epistemology of it if they're not grossly ignorant on what science can and cannot do for itself. Unless they are pushing a deceitful agenda of science against faith or the other way round, of course, by which we all know what it's really about down the road, don't we?


All serious science folks know about Godel's, and sometimes Hilbert, Peano, Cantor, etc.


"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Thanks for sharing

You are right on with that definition of science, as is your point about humility and science.

I will have to study this further. It would not surprise me a bit if Solomon had preempted Godel, but I just can't say yet.

Sound waves cannot propagate

Sound waves cannot propagate in space.

Who said they could?

Sounds of stars can be detected ACROSS space...

The sounds are internal vibrations that reveal themselves as a subtle, rhythmic brightening and dimming of a star, explains Chaplin, an astrophysicist at the University of Birmingham, UK, and a specialist in asteroseismology. These waves provide information that astronomers can't get in any other way: triggered by the turbulent rise and fall of hot gases on the star's surface, the vibrations penetrate deep into the stellar interior and become resonating tones that reveal the star's size, composition and mass (see 'Celestial music'). So by watching for the characteristic fluctuations in brightness, says Chaplin, “we can literally build up a picture of what the inside of a star looks like”.


That goes hand in hand with numbers 6 and 7.

6)Star differs from star in glory (1 Corinthians 15:41)

7)There is a way light is parted (Job 38:24)

In Job 38:24 we read: ‘’By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?’’.

We now can answer the question that Job could not. "By passing the light through the prism of the spectroscope."

"When this was first written nobody ever dreamed of the spectroscope, for it was not invented until 1859. The modern astronomer now breaks up a ray of light from some distant star into bands of color like a rainbow and by these color band read the secret of the skies. In its simplest form, the spectroscope consists of two small telescopes with a glass prism mounted between their object glasses.

When a beam of light enters through a narrow slit in the first telescope, its rays are rendered parallel by the object glasses. The parallel rays then pass through the prism, where they are bent or refracted at different angles, and pass out of the prism at different angles, spreading out the colors into a spectrum as the observer sees them through the second telescope. This is what the raindrops in the air do to the sunlight to give us the magnificent rainbow spectrum arching the sky. So it is by the spectroscope, like a pair of giant spectacles, that astronomers read the secret of the skies." Odette Boily

"I set My bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a sign of a covenant between Me and the earth."

That is not science man. You

That is not science man. You can even find a frequency for the human body, but that does not mean its singing.

Light could be split by using colored glasses and filters and rainbows would definitely suggest that they could.

I will ask you this. Did the bible lead to any of these discoveries. In ancient Hindu scriptures they mention flying objects. Does this mean they had got down the science of aeroplanes.

No one who has studied science in any detail would consider the biblical quotes you have provided of any value.

Of course it looked like there were an infinite number of stars, it looked that way to me too till I turned 10 and started reading science books.

Only crackpots and religious nutjobs would take this post seriously so you are in the right place. I can't tell you what a source of frustration this ignorance of science in the dailypaul is for me.

I want people here to be educated and so even though it is intensely painful, I will be around to debunk every conspiracy theory, every bit of junk science that goes around.

Your question is

Your question is

"Did the bible lead to any of these discoveries."

The bible records these discoveries. It's the history that is forgotten. Also, Christopher Columbus wasn't the first to discover America. When he arrived this place was already discovered. But that's just selective memory loss.

The word sing deserves a closer look here. Even if I don't hear it or recognize the tune, scientist have now confirmed that stars have sounds, and that each star has a different sound. Someone knew that thousands of years ago. And that testimony is in writing.

There are 6,000 stars visible to the naked eye(or so I've been told). Scientist have raised their count, over and over again. Here's an example dated 12/ 1/10:

Number Of Stars In The Universe Could Be 300 Sextillion, Triple The Amount Scientists Previously Thought: Study

Just wait. I would bet every dime I own. That number will go up.

The claim was made that you can't count the stars anymore than you can count the sand. That testimony is in writing and it's thousands of years old.

You can pick up cosmic

You can pick up cosmic background radiation with a simple radio. Did the bible way the whole universe sings as well?

If it recorded the discovery, why did it not record the means to arrive at it. That is surely the most interesting part. If they had radio telescopes back in the day, why don't we find them buried in the ground here and there?

Do yourself a favor and throw away the bible and pick up a science book. In the coming years, you'll be an object of ridicule if you put your faith in that substandard compilation of fiction.

The heavens sing

"Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD[YHUH] hath done it:" Isaiah 44:23

Also, Isaiah 49:13 "Sing, O heavens"

And, there are many more.

"Let the heaven and earth praise him, the seas, and every thing that moveth therein." Psalm 69:34

"Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be glad; let the sea roar, and the fullness thereof." Psalm 96:11

"Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them." Revelation 12:12

"For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now." Romans 8:22

"Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house." Ezekiel 12:2

KJV Translations

Yeah about that, the

Yeah about that, the 'heavens', Isaiah or whoever can't just tell them to pipe up when convenient.

The sea roars? *shock*

Enough man. Just submit a scientific paper about it and get it published. All of us will marvel at how blond we were to all the scientific wonders of the bible.

Science has predictive quality. These kind of metaphorical allusions, made after the fact, are of absolutely no scientific value or relevance.

When you can make an accurate and precise prediction, using only information contained within the bible then it can be called science. The prediction also must not be trivial through experience like ' The sun will rise tomorrow.'

I posted 20 predictions

None of them fit your definition of accuracy and precision? Are they all trivial? I completely disagree. But if you are interested I could tell you about health laws concerning quarantine, cleanliness, diet, waste disposal, and incest. Things that have now been proven countless times. The same goes for economic laws about usury, agricultural laws about resting your land, and many other categories.

What am I missing here?

I will not discuss the

I will not discuss the economic issues. But:

Quarantine-Trivial observation that people in close proximity with sick people get sick.

Cleanliness-Trivial observations about malodour and infection.

Diet-Trivial observation of health of eaters.

Waste disposal- Trivial observations about disease spread/ Malodour.

Invest-Trivial observation about health of incest children.

Resting land -Trivial information from observation of decreased fertility.

By 'trivial' I mean as opposed to 'rigorous', which is the way science is done

We don't know

how rigorous all of these observations were, but they were consistently accurate, and that is astonishingly unique among ancient writers.

Did Newton make a trivial observation of gravity? Did Archimedes make a trivial observation of displacement? Did Copernicus make a trivial observation about the earth and sun?

Those men deserve credit for making accurate observations of science, as does the author of scripture when he says the earth is round, stars emit sounds, the heavens are subject to entropy, light is mobile, darkness is stationary, and blood should not be eaten, and so on.

Our disagreement is mainly over the definition of science. Science is not only a process of experiments, but also the fact or knowledge of an environment and the recorded progression of that knowledge. Gravitation was still science, before Newton ever wrote it down.

Yes!! They all made trivial

Yes!! They all made trivial observations and then picked up a pen and paper and proved it rigorousl

Even Newton's calculations were an approximation as it turned out and if my memory serves right, even Copernicus had his basic premise right but was off in his calculations which were later corrected by Johannes Kepler.

That is the best thing about science, it is falsifiable. None of your statements are scientific statements.

Trivial here does not mean insignificant.

Science is not just

the rigor of a test, although that is important. It is also the fact that can be tested, the statement and record of observable truth and law.

The fact that can be tested

The fact that can be tested is an observation, the theory and the test, along with the observation is science.

You've been very civil in your replies. Why don't you post a new comment at the top about something that you are VERY sure is science in the bible. I will see if I can't prove that it is not.

Will do

Give me some time to pick a good one. I have to get back to work at the moment. :-)


Though, they are not using sound waves in space.

All energy is based on frequency. Frequencies are mathematical algorithms that can be altered or converted for desired function.

Planetary mass, as well as any mass, has an innate resonating frequencies created through and by its chemical/quantum substance. The waves emitted from planetary bodies are in the form of long waves, low frequency - like Earth's Schumann Resonance is roughly 7.8hz.

You can convert light, sound, and color energy through multiplication or division, thus to provide the energy source within the available range of function.

Light waves are converted into the audio range to produce music.

They that give up liberty for security deserve neither.

Of COURSE I know that man. I

Of COURSE I know that man. I could take a picture of my room, process and filter it to convert it into sound. That doesn't mean that my room sings too does it?

EVERYTHING is frequency, whether its matter or light, so why single out the poor stars? Why not say every frikkin thing in the universe just sings. Pretty badly, but yeah.

I really do hate christians who try to make you believe that the bible is scientific.

Why don't all your pastors and televangelists or garden variety nutjobs churn out scientific papers considering they spend the whole day reading this great work of science?


"""I could take a picture of my room, process and filter it to convert it into sound. That doesn't mean that my room sings too does it?"""

I was actually going to do this for my Masters Thesis as a demonstration of the relationship of energy between color and sound - so as to suggest that material things do indeed sing and resonate their own aura.

The Bible is not intended to be scientific in the context of Bill Nye's work, no, it was intended to be scientific as an informational guide of both historical and personal progress.

An evangelist has no need for Scientific approval, just as scientific theories need not the church.

They that give up liberty for security deserve neither.

If the bible people stay

If the bible people stay silent on matters of science, I will stay quiet on matters of religion. So good post.

As a DSP project, its a little simple for a master's thesis surely! And it doesn't show a relationship between sound and color. You would essentially be translating and scaling light spectrum frequencies into the audible spectrum of sound.

There are literally infinite ways to achieve this so it is not a one to one relationship. Depending on the size of the window you use to process the image and the way you decide to traverse the image, as well the the parameters for translation and scaling you would get a lot of permutations.

That said, with additional filters and constraints you could probably produce a pleasant sound rather than 'noise'. If you constrain it even further to the notes of modern music or those of the ancient solfeggio, you could even get something resembling music specially if you use a fader.

As a project it is very interesting but as a thesis, I wonder if it could get you a good grade as it does not test or confirm any hypothesis.