20 votes

Smudge Pot weighs in on this DP religious war.

So. The latest division. I trust this means things have got sufficiently boring.

Hey, I have been in this movement before it was one and several before that and this type of thing happens even before we suspect divisionists and shills. One thing that impresses me lately is some arguments here are not by new shill profiles but by people who have been here for a while.

Ok so ideologically we got some snags to work out but it's the ideology of freedom what brought us together to begin with.

All I can do is kinda step back and try to switch lenses and native American spiritually has always demanded that of me. It's just one of an infinite number but it's a lense I am given. And in particular my lense has a specific range it was designed to do and one of these is to try to focus on people like us.

Because for a while there weren't many specifically like us.

Now there are many like us. I'd share more about or share again why I think so (all about prophecy) but maybe I should state a bit more explicitly what some of you know and what I am.

I'm only a little itty bit indian and not-white. The rest of me is white. Most of me is. The fact that I got picked up by successive native tutors and put in touch with this aspect of my blood is not something I planned out though I will tell you that I asked for it. With all my heart I asked for it. I can think myself back to youth and this life was like sandpaper on my skin, it hurt, it was wrong, nothing made sense, it HURT AND IT WOULD NOT STOP.

So if I tell you the Red Road saved me, would you think I had something to say or would you see a coward that hides behind tradition and cannot handle the world as it is?

I had kinda lost hope at one point even with all this training and reinforcement and lost my direction until once again in my young adulthood i was called back. To the One Fire. And when I smoked The Pipe, The Channupa, the One Sacred Pipe as an adult, everything smoothed out for me. The road got smoother from there. Things made sense. It was like every fact and belief as just floating around for me before that and i had no way to put things into order in a way I could work with.

The pipe, over the course of a few short years and the people who administered it to me helped me organize all this stuff and all the sudden gravity came back in and SNAP! Now I understand. At least to a degree where I can function.

Big whoop right?

Hey laugh with me for a sec cause for a while there I didn't know what to do. I think our school and religious training, well a lot of it confused more of us than it helped and some of us have to un-learn stuff. You know that right?

So in addition to learning how to accept OUR NATIVE RELIGION, the guys I was hooked up with happened to be about accepting ALL RELIGIONS so to make a very long story short, I got exposed to lots of religions and that was cool but for one thing.

One thing that has become so clear to me on DP and our actual real-time, real-world interactions because one of my historic functions has been to physically secure you people with all-volunteer forces which means you people (not natives and not anybody else but you) and I have seen you "principled atheists" in action. And I cannot say enough good things about you. In every measure of faith and fidelity I have seen you perform, I have seen you put your lives on the line and I have seen 100% ethical purity from you. I am like I don't care what you believe, the God I know went to extravagant lengths to produce people like you.

That is why when I call a team together, people of every faith or no faith at all respond. Each one who responds to these jobs not only puts themselves potentially in harm's way, we never have quite enough food or water or comfortable places to sleep and these teams spend their money to fly and drive from all over this nation to answer this call.

It's called service. Some are called to serve. You hear the call or you don't.

Never in our history have we been armed in our service. Every time we really discuss this, we want to be able to protect you but we come down to one thing: we are the weapons. If our bodies don't do the job, if all of our combined skill and training can't secure you then nothing and nobody can. We're the best that money can't buy.

And I think that's it. You can't pay for what we do. When we're on the mission we don't care what your God is or isn't, we are relying on each other and guess what?

We're the best in the business. Everywhere we have been, event management and property owners and LEOS and everybody is universally impressed by us. We're not your average bunch of monkeys.

If I'm gonna try to wrap this up, i want y'all to ask yourselves one thing. I see this religious war going on and I make no secret of my spirituality, the folks on chat jokingly refer to me as a spiritual guru but hey, check this out;

Why do I get a free pass for preaching to you? Cause I'm part native? Cause I represent on the one side something fashionable and on the other some white guilt trip bull crap?

Because you know what I get from you people?

Love and acceptance. And encouragement. And life and breath and a reason to continue. And I get to bear witness to explosive power and creativity. Which is you.

Get this strange part? I get to see you in all of your incredible, unpredictable power and you seem to get me but OCCASIONALLY YOU DON'T SEEM TO GET EACH OTHER.

Religion? Really? i so thought we were beyond that. And it upsets me to the point of re-activating which i will do and offer stands: if one of you decides to start killing the other I will be forced to try to preserve the minority.

As if I think principled atheists would comtemplate such a thing. Although in fairness, history is replete with examples us us religionists attacking ANYTHING AND ANYBODY NOT US.

WORD OF SMUDGE:

Young athiestiss and young people pissed at thisi world and the way it turned out due to religion, well you have a major point ok? This is not big news. Yes a lot of notable jerks have professed the Christian religion just as now many jerks profess the religion of state but above all, when a religious person shares their "truth" with you, understand that that is the the best that this person has to offer you at that time and they are trying, in their own way, to help.

Similarly, deists, our light shines like a single ray in darkness through a small hole and nobody who does not stand in the light is capable of seeing the light. We can try and push and pull them into the light and all they know if some bully is pushing and pulling them. We think we know it's for thier own good but all they feel is some bully.

If you go to the res, onto the remote res, people will serve you delicacies that might look and taste grosss to you like elf fat with mold on it but that is something we might reserve for a very special guest. Sometimes when we make frybread for breakfast, that is our very best blue corn fry bread and it might taste strange to you but CAN YOU SEE THE INTENT?

CAN YOU SEE THE INTENT THAT IS THE VERY BEST WE HAVE TO OFFER?

THAT IS THE VERY BEST WE HAVE TO OFFER.

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Thanks for resisting the

Thanks for resisting the temptation, but take it a little further. You know you want to =]

If I'd wanted to, I would have.

Wasn't practicing the quality of mercy by not down voting you. Just felt that your first sentence was that good. Too bad you didn't resist the temptation and end it there.

BTW, I didn't give you the down vote I see above. Maybe someone who knows me better did that. LOL

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox

deacon's picture

truth?

and GOD said "i give you all seed bearing plants"
now a question,does marijuana have or create its own seeds?
if the answer is yes,then we have a problem ,don't we?
deacon

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

Yes, we do have a problem.

Yes, we do have a problem. Its that I am a friggin atheist =P

deacon's picture

lol

that's too funny,i am neither there or here ;)
deacon

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

Yeah, your post took me by

Yeah, your post took me by surprise. But I don't discriminate, I'm equally to all religions, mysticism etc. I feel cheated when people profess them.

I go

' Hey, we were supposed to have gone beyond that superstitious stuff"

So someone with the means to expand their consciousness

which opens the "doors" to the divine realms is somehow inferior to those who choose to remain in their unexpanded belief? I just want to get that right.

What gospel are you preaching BTW? The Christian one? The one where Christ speaks of unconditional Love towards all people? If that's what you're preaching, then you're doing it wrong.

Someone expresses their understanding of the beauty and freedom of our individual beliefs and you decide it best to belittle their beliefs and assume that their methods of personal spiritual exploration through thousand-year-old traditions is somehow "on the way" to finding Truth? Truth was all I read in Smudge's words. All I hear in yours is the kind that keeps Religious tensions perpetuated.

For the record, most "substances" are like shortcuts to achieve states of being that are also honed in deep prayed or meditation. They help to temporarily shed these imposed beliefs (everything you know is something someone else told you) and you can glimpse the Truth and then live that Truth in your life to inspire other, as I feel Smudge did so well. I have done the same through the path of meditation. And I do intend to reach out to nature's methods of teaching as well. This is MY body, MY consciousness so I will explore it as I see fit.

So to you "Preacher" I say with kind regard, have respect for your fellow man and do onto them as you'd like to have done onto you.

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience"—Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

I also went on that path of meditation

Carlos Castanada has NOTHING on me with the exception of being a published and well read author. I met Tim Leary in 1973 and last I saw Tim was 6 weeks before he died a miserable death (I would wish what happened to Tim on no one.. it was pathetic, and very sad.. he had become one of the most angriest people I've ever known, and like many others wind up on a course of self destruction).

The Catechism of the Catholic Church expanded my mind, and broke down the illusion of the world far better than any shaman, guru, healer, than any I've ever met and known, and I have met and known many.

The latest "Division"? Not~~

I can see you are well-intentioned, but here’s the thing. Just because we have differing points of view on DP does not mean it is wrong to discuss them. Has it EVER occurred to you that we all got to this point of being informed at DP BECAUSE we were “educated” by Dr. Paul and others in this liberty movement of “awakening”. So, too, maybe we haven’t been “educated” in other areas as well, including religion. Did that occur to you? Freedom is knowledge. If you are against that, then, you are against liberty.

I find it stimulating to hear others talk about these things, because they relate politically to our country. People don't just bring them up out of the blue. They are usually related to something political, as was about marriage. I don’t find it negative at all. It doesn’t matter what someone “believes”. Beliefs are based on the accumulation of knowledge. If knowledge is lacking, then, there is nothing wrong in sharing their thoughts & information about what they know, unless you think you have 'the lock’ on all knowledge.

“Shills”?

We usually recognize TROLLS, but shills? I don’t think so! Instead of acting as if you are above all this “division” that you perceive, why don’t you just engage in conversations? Either that, or just exit the thread and move on to another dialogue at DP.

Furthermore, having these discussions does NOT mean we don’t agree with Dr. Paul’s political beliefs of liberty, and it doesn’t mean we aren’t together in our fight for liberty! I think it’s pretty obvious we ALL are. But, don’t discourage talk about other matters, just because you feel uncomfortable.

cepivon? Was your post meant for me?

I am not saying it's wrong to discuss anything on DP. MN and the Mods censor far more people and posts than I would... The only thing I would ban is advertizing that has not paid to advertize.

In 07, I* didn't agree wuth RP in all his stands.. that took educating myself by reading his books. I have always appreciated DP as a place one can educate themselves. Now I feel the same way about Rand.

Only thing I'm against is advertizing that is not paying MN/DP to advertize. I have NO problem with religious or atheist posts.

I apologise if you find my posts discouraging others to post about anything.. I dion't know where you get the idea I am uncomfortable.

Talk about whatever you wish.. I do.

The Granger--no, it was meant for Smudge Pot

Sorry, unless you are the author of the post, no, I meant it was for the author.

I know, and we are ALL still learning history. There is SO MUCH to know and learn, and that includes religion as it may relate to politics, too.

I have expanded my mind a

I have expanded my mind a LOT, lol. That is why I am so frank. For me that process entails knowing who you are, and trust me if you knew me you would probably like me. I am not so bad. Very sure in my opinions, yes. Judging people's opinions, yes. If they are ludicrous in my opinion then I will not disguise my feelings.

And you are entitled to those opinions

But perhaps you should focus on the person you are projecting. Perhaps your projection is not what you really feel you are? If your mind is so expanded, then you should have come to realize that we are all in this together and we must be accepting of others' beliefs BUT you are CHOOSING to be an A**hole about it rather than a respectful human being. Just because you are entitled to an opinion doesn't mean you have to be so arrogant and condescending.

I could choose far more course words for you but I have actually learned from my mistakes and see there is no value to being an annoying noise in the room when people are trying to come together and embrace our differences.

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience"—Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

I make most of my comments in

I make most of my comments in a light hearted way. I never called you any names but I'm referred to as an asshole.

But no worries, I don't take it too seriously =)

I hate sky daddy, the most, the more mystical versions of belief, having seen them for myself, I'm more willing to accept. Once I got so high, I became a slave of my diary. I decided to write down what I would do and also predict what would happen. The predictions were safe at first but then they started getting more elaborate. I realized I was controlling not only my own behaviour but that of others around me...did that mean...I was...a god?

Then I freaked out and washed my face and got back to reality. Interesting, to be sure, but ultimately without much value.

Have a good day man, mine is just ending.

Ur an Anus!?

I know I can be an asshole, unintentionally. I feel bad when I accidentally hurt someones feelings! Maybe that makes me more God-like!! NOT!! LOL

We are all fighting, for our freedom, to continue with the most unique government in the world. We should not have to fight to preserve our rights. But, it, sadly, looks like we have some in our own government that would exercise tyranny on us! Our founding fathers told us, in their writings, that we would be able to face this, better than any country, established on earth. All because of what they established in our Constitution, way back when!

Oh man, I hope for the sake

Oh man, I hope for the sake of the world that you're 12 and not 52 or 60!

Gramps that joke is done to death! It is only used ironically now!

Its ok though, cuz you're cool. No, they aren't actively trying to be tyrannical. More like an overprotective parent. But we don't want that so regardless of motives, we'll oppose them anyway.

Lets hope the next lot is a little less insecure.

Are you sure you got "back" to reality

or got a taste of it which, like many, freaked you out?

Sure you seem like you have moments that are genuine but then there are those that just rub people the wrong way. Sleep on it.

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience"—Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

I got back but returned again

I got back but returned again and again till I stopped.completely as it was affecting my stamina.

Now all I have are good memories =)

projecting a false front is immoral

Be real, and don't worry what others think. Frankly my dear, I could give a damn if you like me or what you think of me. I respect you for your choice, that does not mean I support it, or like it, or agree with it anymore than a rattle snake's.

My day goes on blissfully regardless

I would answer every post with a bunch of 'heart icons' to express the fundamental perspective I have of all things but that wouldn't contribute much to the conversation, I suppose.

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience"—Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

I'm sure

"follow your bliss" reminds me of pigs who love to sunbath in muck.

Peace be with you oh blissful one! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3MsnhnH_6g

where did Smudge say

he got high? You are obviously incredibly ignorant about Pipe so shouldn't even comment on it. And your arrogance, not to mention intolerance, belies your claim of 'truth knower'. Shame on you.

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

You are so RIGHT man. People

You are so RIGHT man. People like me shouldn't even be allowed to comment on the mystical secrets of getting high. It is such a freegin secret that people smoke herbs for different experiences and states of mind.

Come off it man. Boo freakin hoo...

Mr. Smudge Pot, come on, tell them my post was fair and accurate, and not deserving of so many downvotes...my recent reception score is taking a right battering...

Smoking?

I remember back in olden times, in college, I was exposed to peyote. So, we will not know for sure, unless somebody owns up to it being in the pipe. I did read that Mexican shaman smoked salvia divinorum (sage) for enlightenment. I did while it was legal. It did not enlighten me! It just kicked my butt!! Yeeha! I should have been born a shaman!

And YOU have a direct line to all earth's truth?

Never claim to have "the" truth - that is an impossibility. Perhaps you have discovered some "truths" in your life, but no one has a direct line to "the" truth. How arrogant.

I find it quite puzzling as to why many non-believers, who seemingly have little tolerance for religious freedom of speech, would support, and vote, for someone who is both a religious man and staunch supporter of free speech - namely Ron Paul.
That always seems so hypocritical to me.

Since Ron Paul claims to be religious - why shouldn't people discuss their own religion - Christianity or Smudge Pot's loving beliefs, on a website devoted to Dr. Paul and his principles in life.
I'm sure Dr. Paul participates in religious ceremonies - do you consider him a fool believing in fairy tales?
I have an idea...
Why don't you gather all the non-believing complainers on this website and send send a petition expressing the views, criticisms. jokes and complaints about religious discussion (the same vocabulary voiced on above by you) to Dr. Paul. Perhaps he would address this serious issue and ask the Christians to please stop quoting scripture on a website bearing his name and to refrain from discussing their belief in God and exercising 1st amendment rights.
Dr. Paul's response would be most interesting - particularly to you. Perhaps he'll be so grateful to find someone accessible to the full "truth" and correct him in his errors.

Yes, god came to me in a

Yes, god came to me in a dream....haha =P

All kidding aside, truth as we know it about objective reality is available to everyone. Any more is speculation, any less, ignorance. If you ask any question about our world I can answer it with considerable detail. Of course there are unknowns and some aspects of reality may even be unknowable, but that does not give people the right to make up explanations and declare them to be TRUE.

Ron Paul gets a free pass from me because he's awesome. That does not mean all his beliefs are correct. I am confident that if he agreed to have a discussion with me, I could bring him to my point of view.

My opinion? He prefers to deal with reality and practicalities rather than give too much thought the truth about a religion in which he grew up and has always been a part of. You can tell if a person really cares about his religion. Dr. Paul does not as far as I can tell and I love him for that as well.

When politics gets boring...

talk religion.

It was probably the pandas.

This comment is irrelevant and redundant.

Mercifully it ends now.

It was probably the pandas.

yeah that or

maybe i can hurt you.

maybe i can hurt you bad and then go for something important to you.

and then maybe i can hurt you. again.

There is nothing strange about having a bar of soap in your right pocket, it's just what's happening.