-114 votes

Truthers continue to see what they want to see.

Let me give you an example, and then I will go off on my rant.

Regarding the passport: You guys only see what you want to see. Why don't you list every item that survived? Drivers licenses survived, entire arms and other limbs, clothes, etc. Tons of things survived, but you frame the argument like only the passport survived. They already had flight manifests. They knew who was on those flights. There was no reason at all to plant a passport. The fact of the matter is that tons of things survived, not just a passport, and planting a passport would have been useless. It only seems like it matters to you guys because you want it to matter. If it was a conspiracy, don't you think the real cover up would have been about how they faked the flight manifest?

You people just continue to see what you want to see, regardless of how ridiculous it is. You take every bit of flimsy evidence and force it to support your conspiracy. Check that, I shouldn't even call it "evidence' because it isn't. It is a lack of evidence that you have. You invent questions about the incident and when you can't wrap your brain around reason and logic, you take every stupid thing any witness ever said and cling to it as if it were straight from God's mouth to your ears. You twist logic to fit your own narrative so you can feed your feable need to feel important on a national scale, like somehow the nation is reading your posts.

I remember when this sight was about liberty and free market capitalism. I remember when people here discussed topics related to the ideas Ron Paul was bringing up every day. You all have driven those fine people away with your own ignorant lack of critical thinking. I enjoyed those people. We shared information and learned together. I don't enjoy you people. You spread fallacy through verbosity. You post every tiny scrap of psuedo-evidence no matter how easily refutable, rendering the rest of us simply too tired to continue to address your never ending pile of fiction.

And worst of all, you continue to move the goal post, to the point that no amount of debunking will ever satisfy you because you will simply wait for the next bit of psuedo-evidence to come out, and if that evidence isn't readily available, you resort back to the old time honored defense of "All I know is that I don't believe the official story". And that only creates another fallacy you all love, the false dillema, where you try to shoot holes in the official story thinking that it somehow proves your story is true, only you don't even have a coherent story to back up. If I point out all the inconsistency in the Bible, does that somehow prove that Thor is real? You need evidence in support of your story, not lack of evidence in support of their's. You people don't have evidence. You don't have a story. What you do have unfortunately, and in abundance, is a never ending supply of fallacies.

As a middle school teacher, part of my curriculum is teaching fallacies, so when I claim you are using them in abundance, I'm not speaking generally. You are using them in abundance and it is killing your argument. The sad part, is that even if you all were right, your constant use of fallacy and lack of logical skills has driven away countless people who might have actually cared.

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sharkhearted's picture

Better to be a TRUTHER....

Better to be a TRUTHER (one who is seeking the truth)...

...than a LIESer!

Every sane rational person, should be a "truther."

Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

Using semantic arguments is

Using semantic arguments is really scraping the bottom of the barrel man..

Are 'birthers' seeking birth, for example?

sharkhearted's picture

Definition of a TRUTHER

One who seeks the truth...especially in the sense of resisting a possible cover up by the government.

Oh, now, governments never lie, though, right? We can trust them. Uh huh.

To carry your ANALolgy further:

A truther seeks the truth. Nothing complicated about that.

A birther questions Obama's birthplace. THAT is semantics.

But a truther seeks the truth...no matter what the cost. That is NOT semantics.

Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

My point is that neither are

My point is that neither are proper words, they have emerged in recent times in which context they should be understood.

Your definition of a 'birther' is correct but a 'truther' to anyone means someone who believes that 9/11 was a false flag operation carried out by the govt. That is all I was trying to say.

Truth Is Offensive — Paul Craig Roberts

In America truth is offensive. If you tell the truth, you are offensive.

But how long before being offensive becomes being “an enemy of the state”?

Throughout history truth tellers have suffered

and court historians have prospered.

It is the same today.


The ancient Greeks understood this well. In Greek mythology, Cassandra was the prophetess who no one believed despite her 100 percent record of being right. Telling the truth to Americans or to Europeans is just as expensive as telling the truth to the Greeks in ancient mythology.

In America and everywhere in the Western world or the entire world, telling the truth is
unpopular. Indeed, in the USA telling the truth has been criminalized. Look for example at Bradley Manning, held for two years in prison without bail and without a trial in violation of the US Constitution, tortured for one year of his illegal confinement in violation of US and international law, and now put on trial by corrupt prosecutors for aiding “enemies of the US” by revealing the truth, as required of him by the US military code. US soldiers are required to report war crimes.

Most americans go along with unaccountable murder, torture, and detention without evidence, which proclaims their gullibility to the entire world. There has never in history been a population as unaware as americans. The world is amazed that an insouciant people became, if only for a short time, a superpower.

sharkhearted's picture


Besides being offensive...for those who are receptive to it...it (the truth) will SET YOU FREE!

Excellent post. Paul Craig Roberts is ahead of his time.

Thank you for sharing!

Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

Isn't the fact that the plane

Isn't the fact that the plane did not hit an important part of the Pentagon, where there were more people, evidence for it being an inside job?


That doesn't even make sense.

Sure it does

Some operatives are expendable. If you wanted victims for a false flag, who would you pick, essential personnel, or expendable ones?

Leges sine moribus vanae

The only real question I have on 911

The only real question I have is why not hit the Pentagon in the center and let it burn from within? Why hit the building on the side where it could easily be put out?

There is some others, but that one I question quite a bit.

Someone could have been killed

Very important for the 911 operation management that no one was killed in this operation. Then they could have become involved in a conspiracy to murder or worse. It is a hassle to fight with real victims families in court, and the operation management could have exposed themselves to blackmail. As long as the story is just made up, with no real victims, the necessary illegal acts will have a statute of limitations and the reported lies could for the media people and the hired witnesses be protected by the First Amendment. Fake news is not illegal. Recruitment to the operation would also have been much harder if it involved a conspiracy to murder.

So they blew up an empty part of Pentagon so that no real people should be killed or hurt. Of course they evacuated the few people in the area before the operation went live.

Isn't the fact that the plane

Isn't the fact that the plane did not hit an important part of the Pentagon, where there were more people, evidence for it being an inside job?

just to make a point--

in your careful documentation--

entire arms and other limbs, clothes, etc. Tons of things survived, but you frame the argument like only the passport survived. They already had flight manifests. They knew who was on those flights.

arms and other limbs "survived"? How, where; how do you know? Who is "they"?

You have used "they" twice; who are "they"?

And did you see the "arms and other limbs"?

I don't talk very much about this on here; I haven't spent a lot of time on this, though I am one of those who doubts the official story, which, in your eyes, makes me suspect--

Have you ever doubted anything "official"? Why or why not?

But the reason I am responding is that you are talking about how, as a middle school teacher, you have to uphold the truth and teach young people how to reason (I assume this is what you mean) and detect truth from error.

And yet you have no documentation for what you assert.

Show me the "arms and other limbs"--

Tell me who "they" are, and I might think you have some valid points to make.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

True or False?


"There was no reason at all to plant a passport."

Yes there was a reason to plant it and that was to convince the public that we know who did this and we're gonna get 'em. Relating the passport holder to bin Laden as one of his followers.

edit: propaganda


Yeap, agreed, 100%.

More free market capitalism and austrian economics, less physics pseudoscience and the words "Free Fall Speeds" repeated ad nauseum.

Eric Hoffer

I remember Eric Hoffer

"Lyndon Johnson has more humanity in the dirt under one fingernail than all the intellectuals in history"
--Eric Hoffer circa 1968


Leges sine moribus vanae


He was a phenomenal reader and philosopher in mind. If you haven't read The True Believer, I'd suggest it to anyone.

I'm always glad when people recognize the pseudonym, it's rare that people do.

Eric Hoffer

Damn those pseudoscience

Damn those pseudoscience physic professor at M.I.T. and that especially that Green Beret demolition expert...what a fraud huh?

Live Free or Die Trying

Right on!

Sadly, people can't seem to accept that sometimes bad things just happen to good people.

IMO, the "truther" stuff is a huge distraction from the REAL conspiracy of how our civil liberties have been trampled on since 9/11.

I don't play, I commission the league.

What "truther" every denied that bad things happened to . . .

good people on 9/11?


I didn't downvote you--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Then you should take it up with the OP

"IMO, the "truther" stuff is a huge distraction..."

Then you should take it up with the OP who started this inflammatory thread. He/she/it is the one who started this distraction.

Resist the temptation to feed the trolls.

-96 and counting...

-96 and counting...

Can we make it to at least -100 tonight?

Resist the temptation to feed the trolls.

Thanks for demonstrating...

precisely what's wrong with the Daily Paul right now. Can't handle an opposing view, so you have to try to downvote and censor it instead.

I don't play, I commission the league.

What view am I opposing??

And how am I censoring anyone?? Do tell.

Go find my first post on this thread and read it.

Resist the temptation to feed the trolls.


How has snake's post been censored? It's still on the active forum topics list. The downvotes do nothing but represent the sentiment of the DP.

ecorob's picture

I AM a Truther!

You ARE a liar.

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.


Straight to the name calling. Always a high level argument coming from you.

A liar?

Couldn't I just be mistaken? Why do I have to be a liar just because we disagree?

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

Ok Mr. School teacher. How

Ok Mr. School teacher. How about you take some time and watch this and tell me where the M.I.T. Professor of Physics (and 1500 other engineers) are just reporting fallacies. I don't know what subject you teach but I'm guessing it isn't metallurgy or physics or we wouldn't be having this discussion.


Live Free or Die Trying

Jefferson's picture


only connection this dude has to a "school" is probably lurking around the playground.
We used to have another class clown around here that claimed he was a "high school physics teacher." He also didn't have any explanation as to why he would spend all day on here "debunking" evidence during school hours. Go figure. He'd get pummeled on a daily basis like one of those inflatable boppo clowns, and he'd still rise back up with that creepy look on his face. My knuckles are still sore. (that's why I rarely get involved in these pissing matches anymore)
No offense, but he's not interested in your youtube link. People that initiate multiple threads like this usually aren't. They are a giant black hole of time and energy imho.