-114 votes

Truthers continue to see what they want to see.

Let me give you an example, and then I will go off on my rant.

Regarding the passport: You guys only see what you want to see. Why don't you list every item that survived? Drivers licenses survived, entire arms and other limbs, clothes, etc. Tons of things survived, but you frame the argument like only the passport survived. They already had flight manifests. They knew who was on those flights. There was no reason at all to plant a passport. The fact of the matter is that tons of things survived, not just a passport, and planting a passport would have been useless. It only seems like it matters to you guys because you want it to matter. If it was a conspiracy, don't you think the real cover up would have been about how they faked the flight manifest?

You people just continue to see what you want to see, regardless of how ridiculous it is. You take every bit of flimsy evidence and force it to support your conspiracy. Check that, I shouldn't even call it "evidence' because it isn't. It is a lack of evidence that you have. You invent questions about the incident and when you can't wrap your brain around reason and logic, you take every stupid thing any witness ever said and cling to it as if it were straight from God's mouth to your ears. You twist logic to fit your own narrative so you can feed your feable need to feel important on a national scale, like somehow the nation is reading your posts.

I remember when this sight was about liberty and free market capitalism. I remember when people here discussed topics related to the ideas Ron Paul was bringing up every day. You all have driven those fine people away with your own ignorant lack of critical thinking. I enjoyed those people. We shared information and learned together. I don't enjoy you people. You spread fallacy through verbosity. You post every tiny scrap of psuedo-evidence no matter how easily refutable, rendering the rest of us simply too tired to continue to address your never ending pile of fiction.

And worst of all, you continue to move the goal post, to the point that no amount of debunking will ever satisfy you because you will simply wait for the next bit of psuedo-evidence to come out, and if that evidence isn't readily available, you resort back to the old time honored defense of "All I know is that I don't believe the official story". And that only creates another fallacy you all love, the false dillema, where you try to shoot holes in the official story thinking that it somehow proves your story is true, only you don't even have a coherent story to back up. If I point out all the inconsistency in the Bible, does that somehow prove that Thor is real? You need evidence in support of your story, not lack of evidence in support of their's. You people don't have evidence. You don't have a story. What you do have unfortunately, and in abundance, is a never ending supply of fallacies.

As a middle school teacher, part of my curriculum is teaching fallacies, so when I claim you are using them in abundance, I'm not speaking generally. You are using them in abundance and it is killing your argument. The sad part, is that even if you all were right, your constant use of fallacy and lack of logical skills has driven away countless people who might have actually cared.

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This is not representative of most truthers' opinions

Just so those who are on the fence don't think "truther" means person who thinks no planes were used.

The truth is that no planes

The truth is that no planes were used.

Prove it

I'm willing to listen. I just find zero credible evidence in no-plane theory. Give me more than a one sentence opinion. Don't use the pentagon to explain the WTC or Shanksville though because it's pretty clear no plane hit the Pentagon.

The record that Norad detected no planes in NYC is on the record

There was a Military or Congressional investigation.

Somehow the alleged track many saw on TV were the result of false images projected as part of the days exercises.

It didn't raise a fuss. Photoshopped planes on TV traveling at 3/4 the speed of sound seemed to provide cover for the planes NORAD never saw.

The FAA has always been the lead investigator. Were they never called because there were no planes? No commercial airline parts to be found.

No radar, no airliner debris. Here's what the FAA recovered form 200ft underwater. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_800

I might have posted the link to the article on the DP a couple of months ago. For now all you have is my word that I saw such a thing.

If I can find it, I will post the link.

Free includes debt-free!

Where is your proof of planes?

You can't prove planes were at any location. Planes didn't hit the WTC. The video doesn't look anything like a real plane crash. Physics doesn't allow for an entire plane to make it all the way inside the building. The plane's construction doesn't allow for it either. You would have seen parts of the plane fall to the ground. The wings are designed to separate from the fuselage in a crash. The plane's trajectory would have changed. Certainly, it would have at least slowed. I was a flight attendant at the time and was based in Newark. I took off a little earlier that morning. After being grounded in Des Moines, the pilots and I discussed all of this at length for several days. We mentioned it to another crew grounded there as well. The captain of that crew was fascinated and in complete agreement that none of what we saw on TV was a real plane crash. I became a no-plane truther on 9/11.

Show me something

All I have is everything I have seen on the subject. Why don't the engineers for truth address this? I'm going to find a long film about no-planes, not debunking it, and watch it while I wind down for the evening.
I have to admit, I have always just dismissed no planes as really silly given all the flight training and airplane parts in NYC, but I also know with 9-11 to not dismiss anything until I've really given it a chance.
I'll let you know what I find out.

I forgot about the wake

I forgot to mention that there was no wake behind the "plane". Jets put out a vortex behind each wing tip. It is very strong and can last a while. They would have curled the fire and smoke in the explosion for sure.

No-plane audio 76min

Listen to philosopher Jeffrey Grupps take on this subject. This is a guy not controlled by the 911 operation management as many of the other 911 researchers are (you know, the controlled opposition etc).

Jeffrey is teaching philosophy at Ann Arbor University these days.

I have uploaded a zipped mp3-file that will be available a few days.

There were no planes on 911! - Jeffrey Grupp Antimatter Radio 8-23-2010:


Also very interesting interview (1h49m):

Christopher P. Holmes, Ph.D. (Psych) on Fabled Airplanes - The Role of the Corporate Media in Creating and Perpetuating the Mass Hypnosis of the American Public
A Investigative Psychological and Forensic Examination of the September Clues Video Series


Even more here: Jeffrey Grupp: Why the PLANES vs. NO PLANES on 911 distinction is SO IMPORTANT! Antimatter Radio 2010-10-1


So one important question

I grew up in Ann Arbor and have never heard of Ann Arbor University. I googled it and it doesn't seem to exist.

edit: i googled this dude and found he works at UofM Dearborn which is a satellite campus of the UofM. UofM's main campus is in Ann Arbor. I don't believe in trutherism but I wont hold this against you. lol

"As a middle school teacher,..."

I rest my case.

You're incapable of thinking for yourself...

You are a part of the "Anti-Think-For-Yourself" force in America.

Highest Ranking Military Officer to Publicly Speak 911Truth


O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

This guy?

"He was the commanding general of the United States Army Intelligence and Security Command from 1981 to 1984, when he retired from the Army. He was also known for his interest in psychic warfare and his hope to develop an army of soldiers with powers such as the ability to walk through walls."



spit right in your eye, Rhysw.
Fair trade for your lies. We know who you are and we know what wikipedia is. we'll not bite on your treachery any longer.
you boys are in trouble and you damn well know it
you've had a good run... but its quickly coming to an end
and good riddance!

O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

wtf is wrong with you guys. I

wtf is wrong with you guys. I copy/pasted. Sorry if the evil elitez edited his page before I got to it. Besides, it's true anyway... see the movie "Staring at Goats"? That's based on this dude.

Do you believe the jesus official story snakepit22?

Could be the game changer.


Which story? That Jesus was real? No. I don't believe that story. I don't think Jesus was even a real person, much less the son of God.

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

I love how so-called debunkers ALWAYS pick one obscure

Fact and act as though because that one thing can be questioned that the vast array of evidence showing the cover-up, the unprecedented and unequaled destruction of 3 buildings from plane impact and resulting office fires and a long list of other anomalies don't exist. It's so intellectually dishonest that it's sickening.
Oh yeah, they also like to act as if anyone questioning the official story is in the most extreme and miniscule group of truthers (no planes. or robots did it, or Bush drove the plane)
I suppose "debunkers" either get paid to attempt to influence people or are just really afraid to face facts.


I don't pick one obscure fact. I just didn't have the time to retype the tens of thousands of words I've already typed about numerous facts previously.

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

No, you picked one obscure fact

Just like always.
Tell me why John O'Neill quit the FBI and what new job he got. When was his first day on that new job?

Airline shorts.

On 9/8-9/10 massive airline stock shorts were purchased. Not two or three times as many as normal on a given day, but HUNDREDS/THOUSANDS of times more volume than normal.

The SEC and FINCEN.gov know who bought those shorts.

There's just no way around this, regardless if you are a "conspiracy theorist" or a "conspiracy debunker".

The simple fact is the government knows the names of those people who bought the short instruments at orders of magnitude thousands of times higher volume than normal in the 3 days prior to 9/11.

Someone in the Bin Ladin

Someone in the Bin Ladin family probably made the shorts. Maybe the gooberment of Saudi Arabia?


notice: over 50 DOWN VOTES SO FAR. Enough said. 9/11 was a false flag, supported by evidence. If you think the "original" story is true, how about giving all us "tin foil hat" people some REAL EVIDENCE. anything?.... anything?...

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
- Ron Paul

cheering for mob rule ?

frigging tyrant.

50 downvotes settles it?

In a country of over 300 million people, 50 downvotes in a random website settles the truth of a particular debate? I didn't realize that downvotes on the daily paul retroactively dictate the truth of events over a decade prior.

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

so... what you are saying is

you cannot uphold the Original version with any evidence? Yet truthers are retards because they can prove it didnt happen like they say it did. Why do you think senator max cleland stepped down from the commission? It was because he said it was a complete whitewash. dumb dumb.

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
- Ron Paul

SteveMT's picture

Most of those 300 million are asleep. We are not.

That's why we're here.

SteveMT's picture

This thread is bogus.

snakepit22: I don't teach my students about 9/11. I teach them about fallacies...

Question snakepit22: What is a "Truther?"

Isn't someone who questions the official story of what happened on 9/11 a "Truther?" Your title should be changed.

Explain the destruction of the crime scene on 9-12

And how does a felony play out on every TV station for weeks on end, and you can still pretend the government was not involved in, at a minimum, the destruction of evidence?
Sheep see only what they can bear to see.

Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.

Hellllllooooooo??? I know you've seen this.

You replied to more recent comments. Is this how you "debunk?" Ignore the hard questions?
To know you are in control of impressionable young minds makes me a little sick to my stomach.

Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.

Great post! Someone had to say it...

Wear your down-votes with pride, the tinfoil-hat crowd is out in full force. Reminds me of last year, when I posted a video about why I wouldn't support Gary Johnson. The video was 43 minutes long, but 10 minutes after posting it it had 16 red arrows. They down-voted it without even watching it, as the title indicated that I was in violation of the DP "group-think"

I'm an ex-Truther. I thought the Truth theory had a lot merit, until I began objectively listening to both sides. Then I realized what a big, steaming load "Truth" is; how corrupt and self-serving its major proponents are; and how arrogant and condescending its devotees are. Now I don't believe a word of it. It's nothing but "fear porn" for rubes, but you'll never convince them of that, as they are so secure in their superiority over the rest of us that they won't listen. They're in a special little club of "The Enlightened", and they'll never listen to unwashed heathen such as ourselves.

Like yourself, I've seen this site go to crap. It used to be my favorite site, but now the exchange of intelligent ideas between intelligent people is a thing of the past. The tinfoilers, the bitter, the ignorant, and the hateful purveyors of herd mentality have taken over. Watch how many down-votes this comment gets; it's the truth, but it will get down-voted.

RIP, Daily Paul.

“Never think of pain or danger or enemies a moment longer than is necessary to fight them.”