87 votes

Everyone sees what they want to see

In response to: Truthers continue to see what they want to see.

Everyone sees what they want to see:

  • The truthers and the antitruthers;
  • The believers and the non-believers;
  • The Rah-Rah-Randers and the Rand-Can-Do-No-Gooders;
  • The statists and the anarchists;
  • The gold bugs and the paper pushers;
  • The carnivores and the vegans;
  • The Keyensianists and the Austrianists;
  • The IP defenders and the trashers;
  • The Republicans, the Democrats.

Isn't that clear enough by now? Doesn't all the data here on the DP point in that direction? There is no way we can have unity, nor is there reason to. People believe what they believe until they change their mind. Or rather, until their minds are mystically, magically changed.

Don't take it personally, and don't hold it against anyone.

People see what they want to see. Everyone does it.



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I couldn't help replying, the

I couldn't help replying, the dog in your pic is just tooooo cute =P

Thanks

Her name was Pookie Bear, or Precious - formal name, may she rest in peace. She was our first "child." My ID is taken from her name "bear" a fasst way to log on!

Well, me and my imaginary husband just shared our 29th Anniversa

ry yesterday, 4/7. We have been thru thick and thin. I am used to sharing him with a church full of people. However, the most difficult thing I have had to learn is to share him with our children. You see, we were married for almost 20 years before the boys came along and I had him all to myself at home, and now I can't get a word in edgewise! Thus my need to share with a billion people lol :)

Wouldn't trade the 29 years or the boys for anything though. Just a new phase of life to get used to...the laundry and the meals are a challenge. Cooking used to last 3 meals of left overs because Jeff didn't mind abit eating them. Now I can barely scrape an extra lunch out of a dinner :)

I have been doing laundry all day because I refuse to do it on the weekend and I am still not caught up.

I did get a pedicure for spring this evening at 5:45 when I should have been feeding them and he didn't say a word. I really didn't realize what I had done until I was trying to plan the day between school, sports, and my appointment. Then all the sudden I remembered dinner for my men. They went out for BBQ. He is very patient! I am not the perfect wife :)

...

(((((((((((((bear)))))))))))

Happy Anniversary and many many more filled with blessings and LOVE.

(((((((((((((Thanks Granger!))))))))))))))))

It was fun to see (((((((((((((bear))))))))))))))))) on the side and click on it!!! Just like opening an Anniversary Card :)

Bear, you are so gentle with

Bear, you are so gentle with us roughnecks. It's good to have you around here!

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".
--Voltaire

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

Thank you Ira,

it is nice to be here. I especially love you roughnecks...for some strange reason! Thanks for letting me hang out with you :)

my thoughts

Firstly, I agree with this post.
Secondly, I think it could be expanded.

I notice that there are a lot of replies that make statements about critical thinking, and only using facts to base your opinions on etc etc. The thing is, everyone IS doing this ! They are making their best analysis of reality based on their experiences and perspective.

Facts are subjective depending on your field of view and choices about what is going on. IMO nothing is unchangeable. What the discerning individual will do is observe the FACT that there are as many different opinions about what is real as their are people in the world, therefor theirs is not THE "right one". It is quite a humbling consideration.

Freedom is a byproduct of acceptance - judge not.

The problem is the downvoting

... and ridicule from the small cliques of supporters who bury skeptical posts or responses. The problem is that these people hold the fallacious belief that if only their skeptical opponents just "opened their minds enough" they would come around to their "correct" conclusion. The problem is that those who disagree with these people and voice valid criticisms get shouted down or labeled as closed-minded shills instead of having their views considered and respected.

I consider myself a skeptic of several near-and-dear beliefs which frequently appear in upvoted threads on the DP. I used to voice my opinion in these threads, but these days I just downvote and move on rather than respond. There's just no point to wading into these minefields anymore. I'll just get shouted down, because all the other skeptics who'd agree with me also avoid these threads.

But a lot of that's probably because we don't yet have a presidential election to talk about. Once the 2016 election gets into full swing, those types of posts won't be as numerous. I hope.

indeed

I think that a someone who is interested in finding truth would embrace a debate rather than attack an alternative. Truth is revealed through investigation, not domination.

Freedom is a byproduct of acceptance - judge not.

Great post Michael

Logged in just to rate it + 1.

LL on Twitter: http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
sometimes LL can suck & sometimes LL rocks!
http://www.dailypaul.com/203008/south-carolina-battle-of-cow...
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

More like, everyone sees what

More like, everyone sees what you post to the front page. How about more posts with a little skepticism and less paranoid posts that are constantly jumping to conclusions.

The purpose of decentralized government

The concept of states rights being superior to the power of the federal government is because of exactly this problem. No one will ever agree on the best way to govern, ever! Rather than try to force everyone under the same system (other than one that protects the most basic of rights), you allow people the freedom to live in any state they like (or can afford) and make the best of it.

And for those saying that all you have to do is look closely at the evidence, or the facts to come to a knowledge of the truth don't appreciate the complexity of the world. Most things are not physics. You can't isolate variables and observe repeatable results in a lab in politics. Nothing has only one cause or one effect. History is always suspect, regardless of which ideology your favorite narrative seems to support. And even when you have a wide exposure to a lot of information, from a variety of sources, it is still subject to interpretation.

The true libertarian is not someone that looks down on those who don't see things the same way. Rather, a true libertarian wants nothing more than to be left alone, free to interact with others on a voluntary basis. Securing that right demands a critical mass of libertarian thinking, so it's understandable that many get impatient and frustrated with others not 'seeing the light'. Those doing their best to spread the word would do well to focus on technique rather than 'facts' imho. The facts are already out there, most people either see them differently than you, or just give more weight to other facts for whatever reason. Understanding the reasons why they think the way they do instead of showing them why they are wrong will generally yield much better results.

"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the forms of kings to govern him?" -Thomas Jefferson

Education

I think that some people have less mental horsepower at their disposal than others and even those with brains, if they have never been taught how to reason, how to discern and how to apply logic, they too will improperly process the stimulus that their senses provides their brains.

A case in point is the middle school teacher who is pretending to be a scientist or engineer or architect and is putting forth is "opinion" regarding subjects WAY WAY WAY outside of his realm of ability. He may be a swell fellow, a great dad a wonderful husband and exemplary son, however he has never been taught how to think and therefore goes off on things about which he knows nothing and criticizes those who have been taught how to properly process information. He may have the brainpower to properly process information but if he has never been educated, he is more likely than not to make errors with his thoughts.

As others have noted, it is all about the evidence. Intelligent, mature adults reject superstitions. They are able to ignore the superfluous nonsense and apply the known laws of physics etc. to situations they are trying to understand. It takes effort and is not something for the lazy-minded people.

Sometimes there are flaws in process too

The middle school teacher understand some things about logic and process. Sometimes the smartest people, with a lot of facts at their disposal screw up the process. Many in the 911 truth movement do this - first clue is the dramatic, propaganda music they use in their videos.

tasmlab's picture

Sometimes these things are PREFERENCES too

If someone prefers chocolate over vanilla, it's pretty much impossible to explain away their preference, no matter good your arguments are.

Much of what is debated is wholly individual preference, even when there are facts and outcomes and everything else attached.

Currently consuming: Morehouse's "Better off free", FDR; Wii U; NEP Football

Look into the

EVIDENCE. The truth will set you free.

I completely agree!

However, I never really felt 'awake' so to speak in regards to liberty or politics and what I now consider the truth until I was exposed to RP in 2007. Will this feeling continue to happen over again as my beliefs evolve? Do dems/reps have this same feeling of excitement for the truth and hunger for wisdom because I would guess that they don't...

Just a thought.

proverbs 20:15
There is gold, and an abundance of jewels;
But the lips of knowledge are a more precious thing.

Even when confronted with

Even when confronted with irrefutable facts that contradict their views, people are incapable of changing their minds. When Madeline Albright was asked if the deaths of half a million children was worth the price of our sanctions against Iraq, I heard her, I saw the interview, but it didn't REGISTER. I forgot all about it until after I saw that Ron Paul bumpersticker that changed my life. Only when we have an open mind can we accept reality. Only when something finally clicks. People see what they want to see. They make their own reality.

PattyFromTexas

Mystery…………!!!

People take their beliefs and ways of seeing the world way too seriously. Everybody should once in the while take a vacation from their beliefs. Believe for while something else or don't believe anything for a while; is that possible.

Then it is important to understand that there are some things that are impossible to avoid. There are certain facts of life, but no fact has any meaning in-itself. The contexts, horizons, and atmospheres give every fact meaning and if one changes the context from one to another the meaning of the facts changes. Play with your contexts and horizons of life and understanding. These contexts and atmospheres are religious (Christian, Muslim, Buddhist), scientific (natural or human), cultural (Western [American, Italian], Eastern, African [Egyptian, Somalian, Nigerian]), historical, etc. Jump from one atmosphere to another and free yourself from what has become a habitual for you.

Then one can also try to put all traditions aside, that is, truly try to free oneself, that is, become free of all possible traditions by trying to get to the root, origin or beginning of all these traditions. Then one could try to become a beginner. How is possible to see the world in some many ways? How are these different ways of seeing the world rooted? What makes it possible that same thing can be seen scientifically, religiously, psychologically, etc.? Is there something more original or primordial than all these different ways of seeing and believing?

Is there a possibility to just see? Not to see scientifically, religiously, culturally, etc.? Just to see without any ready-made conceptual systems, without any ready-made belief systems? To see freely; is it possible? Would that be true freedom? What does it mean to see? Or what does it mean to hear, to smell, to walk, to speak, to dance, to move, to breathe? What are these mysterious ways of existing that are given to us or what we find ourselves with? How do we relate to these mysteries which life has given to us as embodied beings? How do they open us to the mysteries of the world, how do they give us every moment access to things, other people around us? Can we free ourselves to these questions without trying to answer them with some ready-made learned answers, explanations or theories? Can we become more and more astonished about all of this? I am, the world is, others are, things exist around us and all of these are related to each other manifold ways and we will never know for sure what this all means, or how are all of these so called things related to each other.

Forget for awhile Christianity, New Age, Science, Buddhism, Taoism, Ron Paul, US Constitution, Nationality, Race, all spiritual leaders, etc. Start to trust your first opening to the world which is your experience before you learned or believed anything. The biggest mystery is we have hands, feet, mouths, noses, ears, eyes and they give us access perpetually to world. Our openness to the world is the biggest mystery there is. This openness is always before anything else, before different ways of seeing and believing.

"Air is the very substance of our freedom, the substance of superhuman joy....aerial joy is freedom."--Gaston Bachelard--

For The Truly Enlightened - There Are No Choices

When we doubt ourselves (The wordless word) it is evidence that we have not achieved a state of wholeness.

Traumas early in our lives cause us to be in conflict with our inner light. When that happens we get confused because of all the clutter of thoughts swirling in side your monkey brain. It is the spirit that seperates us from the animal. Only by seperating our conscience mind from our thought streams are we capable of distinguish the forest from the trees. Until we can learn how to slow the flow of thoughts will be able to discern the light of truth or the wordless word. In the storied, "Garden of Eden", Adam had it, but lost it, because he doubted his inner self, listened to the spoken word instead and fell from grace. Inother words, he doubted God and listened to the woman.

Adam truly knew instantly what he had lost. His bright nature must have felt like an anti-acid tablet disolving tablet in water.

We, on the other hand, never knew that original brightness, because we never had it to lose. Only young children, before they are slapped down, (traumatized) exhibit a bright nature of innocence, for a short time. We discourage them from seeing us and others as they are. It is just too embarrassing for the older, less tolerant of us, to allow these honest and innocent, to be themselves and to see things as they are, not as we want them to be.

Only those that are truly spiritually enliughtened can hope to agree that white is white and not Black.

As we fall even further from grace we are transformed into males and females males or females,not unlike the beast of the field.

We are subject to outward pressures, like an animal, because of the original trauma that has passed throught the generations of fallen men and women. We come into the world with two choices, either to rebel or conform. Either choice is wrong and leads to more confusion and doubt.

Until we can find the way to true spiritual enlightenment we will always have differences of opinion, conformists or rebels. (Democrats and Republicans)

For the truly enlightened, there are no choices to makel.

There is only a knowing that we all have, but have yet to discover..

"I perceive that all of the problems in the world can be solved by learning how to sit still in a room" ~ Blaise Pascal:

A total commitment to denying objective reality.

A Flat-Earthers eyes work just fine, in fact, they become the problem. It's about perspective. They haven't yet seen something to change their mind.

Truthers Vs Flat-Earthers

There is an objective basis for truth.

"Nihilism"

1.total rejection of established laws and institutions.
2.anarchy, terrorism, or other revolutionary activity.
3.total and absolute destructiveness, especially toward the world at large and including oneself: the power-mad nihilism that marked Hitler's last years.
4.Philosophy .
a.an extreme form of skepticism: the denial of all real existence or the possibility of an objective basis for truth.
b.nothingness or nonexistence.
5.( sometimes initial capital letter ) the principles of a Russian revolutionary group, active in the latter half of the 19th century, holding that existing social and political institutions must be destroyed in order to clear the way for a new state of society and employing extreme measures, including terrorism and assassination.

Free Market Government

The list offered is incomplete.

Why?

Why do people refuse to see the obvious alternative?

Here is the incomplete list:

The truthers and the antitruthers;
The believers and the non-believers;
The Paul supporters and the Paul haters;
The statists and the anarchists;
The gold bugs and the paper pushers;
The carnivores and the vegans;
The Keyensianists and the Austrianists;
The IP defenders and the trashers;
The Republicans, the Democrats.

Here is a more competitive, Free Market Government, list:

The truthers and the antitruthers;
The believers and the non-believers;
The Paul supporters and the Paul haters;
The statists and the anarchists;
The gold bugs and the paper pushers;
The carnivores and the vegans;
The Keyensianists and the Austrianists;
The IP defenders and the trashers;
The Republicans, the Democrats.
The Legal Criminals, those IN Liberty

Those who claim that there can be no Free Market of government confess their being being in Legal Crime, those who work toward Liberty have at least one foot in it.

There has been examples of Free Market Governments working and the one closest to home, for Americans, is that one that existed between 1776 and 1788, so refusing to see it, failing to see it, is, by that individual measure, working against it, yes or no?

The closest on the list offered, competitively, without the addition may be this:

The statists and the anarchists

Unfortunately that is an argument destined to perpetuate as an argument, and I can explain why I say that, and offer my viewpoint competitively to anyone who may be able to improve upon the viewpoint if at all possible.

The example of a Free Market Government working in history, between 1776 and 1788 includes the case of a person named Daniel Shays, where that person became a slave, was made a slave, by criminals running the Massachusetts Government, and that person, as a slave, ran away from that Despotic State in the Voluntary Union under The Articles of Confederation, and that runaway slave ran into Vermont.

What that proves, in fact, demonstrable fact, that slaves were able to find sanctuary, Liberty, in the Free Market Government that existed at that time.

People who want to be Slaves, and people who want to be Masters of Slaves were able to flock, to go, to be, in a Despotic State, in the then Voluntary Union, those who prefer Liberty, voted with their feet.

The example offered to those wanting to be in Liberty, is even more instructive on many levels, whereby that example of a Despotic State running the Friends of Liberty out of that State, and those runaway former slaves running into a less Despotic State, exemplifies exactly what it exemplifies, if any cares to know better.

Know better than what?

Better than this:

The statists and the anarchists

That is incomplete.

This is more competitive, more complete:

The Legal Criminals, those IN Liberty

Masters want Slaves, Slaves want Masters, and who is to say they are wrong?

Those IN Liberty make their beings be IN Liberty.

How?

Who wants to know?

Joe

Off Topic Addition

With or without novocain

makes quite a difference in the kind of fat lip one has after a dental procedure.

My dentist thought perhaps we didn't need novocain, and afterall I wouldn't have a fat lip and could eat lunch right away so we gave it a try. Needless to say, I had what he called an "autmoatic reflex action" and I now have a fat lip due to the drill hitting the inside it after I jerked my arms upward and slid down in the chair. He likened the action to what one would have when a knee is tapped a certain way. Which leads to a 2nd compare and contrast:

automatic reflex caused by pain vs. automatic reflex caused by tapping...I can guess both result from hitting certain nerves.

He said next time he'd use novocain when I asked if I should of held on tight to the arms of the chair. He said it wouldn't have made a difference as I would have jumped anyways. He said he was sorry for hitting my lip. I said I was glad it was not my eye.

Anyways, I have slept most of the day and have no more words. Except I am wondering if I amy trying to keep from getting sick or I am getting sick. I haven't felt well for 2 days now. Oh a 3rd comparison and contrast:

Life before cancer and life after cancer...at least there is life, but before cancer I had energy, after cancer I have what they have decided to call fibromyalgia. You know that convenient thing that no one can see, but is a good excuse to get out of anything, yet leaving you looking like a lazy bum.

----------------------
"Those IN Liberty make their beings be IN Liberty.

How?

Who wants to know?"

I do! I do!

...

One of many ways.

There is a reply above by NoEndToTruth titled The Purpose of Decentralized Government reporting a similar answer to the report I keep on reporting on these mediums of communication.

Person A can run away from a Slave State and find Liberty (relative Liberty compared to the Slave State), and the design of this type of Free Market Government is to stop enforcing slavery.

What happens when we the people stop enforcing slavery upon each other?

What happens to all those people who love to be slaves?

What happens to all those people who love to make people into slaves?

Where do they run to, when they are living in a Free State in a Voluntary Union when they want to be a Slave or when they want to make Slaves out of people who want to be Slaves?

A Slave State has existed, does exist, and probably will exist, and those who choose to be in those States can find them, and be in them, and if that is not an accurate statement, then someone could prove where the statement becomes false.

Why is a Free State not allowed to exist?

Why is the invention, production, and maintenance of a Free State, a Voluntary Union, a foreign concept?

If the question is valid, then the answer ought to be accurate.

A Decentralized Government is a two word description of something, whereby the thing described with those two words means something specific, and if the specific meaning means a Free Market Government Voluntary Union, where Slaves can be Slaves in a Slave State if they choose to be Slaves in a Slave State, while at the same time a Slave that does not want to be one can move to a Free State, within the Voluntary Union, then what problems exist after that Slavery problem is thereby solved, in that way?

Where is this Decentralized Government?

Where is this Free State?

Where can those who don't want to be Slaves go to be free from Slavery?

Is that the question?

If that is the question then why is the accurate, obvious, measurable, demonstrable, answer a foreign concept?

Joe

I have a question

how much hardship does it take before a slave will make a move?

You see, I ask that because so many of us are willing to live in states that exact an income tax in addition to the Federal Tax. Why don't we all move to the no tax states that already exist and leave these states that exact an income tax to tax themselves?

I say it is because of our jobs, families, and convenience of not picking up roots and moving. So, if there were truly a free place, would we go?

You will come to realize the gravity of the situation.

"how much hardship does it take before a slave will make a move?"

I've warned before, and now again, this path is not easy. You will come to realize the gravity of the situation. On the bright side, the warning, once you realize the gravity of the situation, becomes encouragement.

Take your question above and see from my viewpoint and see if this makes sense to you now. The answer should be easy for you to see. It is easy to see for me. You ask about how much hardship, how much doom, how much gloom, how much misery, and what else?

Depression

Isolation

Degradation

Degeneration

The answer isn't even in your question because of how the FRAUD works.

The Fraud says: "Send me more of your power so that I (the frauds) can protect you."

The victim experiences some, any, hardship, and what is the victim trained from birth to do about that experience of that hardship?

Be depressed about it, and solve it, and the solution to it is the lesser of two evils, and might making right, and all the lies, and all the half truths, and all the involuntary associations that enslave us all: fraud, extortion, robbery, slavery, rape, child sex slavery, torture, murder, mass murder, and threatening all life on earth with extinction made legal.

When torture is legal, for example, like torturing children, when that is legal, and that is not enough hardship, you really need to see how the fraud works, and how it works so well, because once you see it, you can get away from it, at least in your own mind.

The solution to the involuntary association problem (hardship of slaves) isn't involuntary associations.

Paying the extortion fee, eagerly, on time, jumping as high as ordered, is not the answer to the extortion made legal problem when the payments exceed affordability especially.

One, as they say, for some reason, one red cent, why red, I supposed because it is copper, one red cent sent from one slave to one slaver is one cent too many. One red cent is one small measure of hardship for the slave and for the master compared to Equitable Commerce instead.

So...

"how much hardship does it take before a slave will make a move?"

That question avoids any mention of how the hardship works upon the slaves by way of deceit, since knowing how the slaves are made to solve their hardship problems, and they learn to obey, and they obey without question, is to pass on their hardships to weaker people, and, of course, to pay all their surplus wealth to their masters.

The harder they are pressed into hardship, the more they are inspired, by deceit, to work to make their masters more powerful.

Here again (in case you need reinforcing evidence to get this concept understood, tested, and either realized, or thrown out for lack of reason):

From this book:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Crime-Punishment-I-G-Farben/dp/002...

“The construction of I.G. Auschwitz has assured I.G. a unique place in business history. By adopting the theory and practice of Nazi morality, it was able to depart from the conventional economics of slavery in which slaves are traditionally treated as capital equipment to be maintained and serviced for optimum use and depreciated over a normal life span. Instead, I.G. reduced slave labor to a consumable raw material, a human ore from which the mineral of life was systematically extracted. When no useable energy remained, the living dross was shipped to the gassing chambers and cremation furnaces of the extermination center at Birkenau, where the S.S. recycled it into the German war economy – gold teeth for the Reichsbank, hair for mattresses, and fat for soap. Even the moans of the doomed became a work incentive, exhorting the remaining inmates to greater effort.”

“Conditions were such that sickness was a pervasive fact of life among the inhabitants of Monowitz. The hospital wards built by I.G. were so inadequate that even the S.S. suggested additional wards be built. I.G. refused because of the cost.”

Your question:

"how much hardship does it take before a slave will make a move?"

A competitive answer:

"Even the moans of the doomed became a work incentive, exhorting the remaining inmates to greater effort."

If you do not understand the nature of the fraud at play, as in a game, a game to those who invent this game, employ this game, and use this game, not a game to the millions who are tortured legally by it, if you don't understand it, you will be in it, for sure, because it is ubiquitous at this time; in our time.

"You see, I ask that because so many of us are willing to live in states that exact an income tax in addition to the Federal Tax. Why don't we all move to the no tax states that already exist and leave these states that exact an income tax to tax themselves?"

Again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIt_vurpHbQ

I followed that guys work for years now, I don't know how many years, but there is a date on the first report that was reported to me by that guy, through competitive, voluntary, mediums of exchange.

This report:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkwjtbTjTsE

Alex Jones is a similar story, as far as I know, I've seen these guys way back in time, years, at least, decades or more, seeing them on the same path, discovering things, trying to report things, and offer solutions, at least the solution that says something to the affect of "stop providing the means by which we suffer".

Every town, every city, every county, every State, and especially every Nation State on Earth, in one way or another, is controlled by the few people running the Single Legal Money POWER.

You won't get that last sentence from Walter Burien or Alex Jones, that is my understanding of the full measure of the problem, but the problem is between each individual's ears on Earth.

People have to realize how deep the falsehoods go, past the image in the mirror, deep into our souls, because this FRAUD made LEGAL has been going on for centuries, and it has been going on in America since at least 1788. That is many years of lies building upon lies, and violence building upon violence, and once you see it, once you see how well it works, how easy it works, it is a source of hope, because it can unmake itself over night, with as much ease, all people have to do is see.

Just see it.

Like Catherine Fitts says, just talk about it, and then the other direction is being traveled at that moment by those people. The Red Button isn't pushed because the slaves think that they need Involuntary associations to survive well. The moment there is any hardship, the slaves jerk their knees on cue, and they reach for the Tax Man to enforce their involuntary associations, and the Tax Man turns out to be nothing more, but nothing less, than a man made disaster rivaling any disaster nature has ever constructed.

Just see it.

Then once you see it, see how hard it is to get anyone else to see it, and know, accurately measure, the POWER of falsehood as it seizes people's minds, their souls, and takes from them their power to reason out simple math problems.

You work, you earn, a years worth of work.

Half of the year you work for people who slaughter babies for fun and profit.

Is that not a simple math problem?

Are you dealing with adults?

Any child can see this, so what explains the lack of vision other than brain washing, behavioral modification, response conditioning, or the new phrase Manufactured Consent?

Drone warfare for fun and profit.

War is good for the economy.

Do you really think that human beings are weak because human beings are evil? I don't. I think some, very few, human beings are evil, since they define what evil is, in due time, and what they have done, what they are doing, and what they will do, these very few evil people, is lie well.

If they can lie well, they can get their victims to believe that the money they borrow from the victims are loans taken out by the victims.

Who do you know, anywhere, where that person can write that sentence above, and now, you know, you know more than yesterday, and maybe, just maybe, now you know the truth about that sentence.

I am so grateful for your perspective because it is standing on genuine Christian religion, and so much of what is in scripture confirms what I think is merely obvious, as soon as a person can strip away the lies, what becomes merely obvious?

"I say it is because of our jobs, families, and convenience of not picking up roots and moving. So, if there were truly a free place, would we go?"

We have to go into Liberty in our minds first, since the Democratic Federated Republic that can exist, does not exist, not in the minds of enough people to make Voluntary Associations work for those who start out in the morning with less and end the day with more power.

The Voluntary Government Design, a Free Market Government Invention, ended in 1788, and you have to understand how that works, or you, if you can, you can show me where I am wrong.

A Voluntary Government Design has the designed feature of having a self-improving POWER in it. Each individual is empowered, as voters who vote in Juries, who vote in local elections, who vote with their money, THEIR MONEY, not Fraud Money, who vote with the ballot box, the jury box, the cartridge box (Shays's Rebellion and Athens Tennessee are examples of the cartridge box voting method), and vote with their feet, and that is the POWER that removes the criminal POWER.

Voluntary Government is designed to minimize crime, and it has proven to work that way, in demonstrable fact.

When the most evil among us invent, design, produce, and maintain their form of government they include a self-improving element too, but the measure of "improvement" is criminal, it moves power from the victims to the criminals on purpose, for profit, for profit of the criminals, and the victims pay the bills. That is called an Involuntary Association.

You want one, then why are you paying Involuntary Taxes?

Where can we go from here?

We can't go back in time to 1776, but there are events, and ideas, and inventions, and working voluntary associations, an actual Democratic Federated Republic, to know about, from those days, here in America, and if more of us can understand how that did work, then more of us can see a way out of this present mortal danger we find ourselves involved into: INVOLUNTARILY.

What can We The People Volunteer to do now?

Is that the question?

1.
End the FED
2.
End the IRS
3.
Bring the Troops Home
4.
Have all that done by July 4th, 2013 or sooner, but not too late.

Joe

Thank you Joe, for another Lesson in Liberty

That is the most wonderfully written and suscint post!

I can see better now! Your words explain what Ron Paul is talking about when he says, "An idea whose time has come cannot be be stopped by any army."

I think there are 2 posts that your words belong in:

http://www.dailypaul.com/280799/hi-folks-i-am-about-to-ask-a...

http://www.dailypaul.com/280722/all-rebellion-is-immoral

Of course that is bear talking about how bear thinks josf should use his time. Josf is the best determiner of that, not bear.
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On IG Farben and slave labor, as I have not felt well this week, I spent some time listenting to holocaust survivor testimonies. One man was very fit and was blessed with a former student being in a leadership position within the work camp. The man always volunteered for the hardest work, sang, and that former student sent him extra bread. He was the only one left after the group in his death march at the end of the war.

Another lady I listened to was a young girl performing slave labor in a machine shop. At liberation she and the rest of the workers continued to work after their German masters had fled. It was not until a short time later that they realized they were free and still they continued to work. They finally were able to understand they were free. It was conditioning that caused to continue to work when they were free. All they could see was the lie, that they had to continue to work. Your words:

“If they can lie well, they can get their victims to believe that the money they borrow from the victims are loans taken out by the victims.”

Made me think back to those interviews I listened to. They were very, very interesting first hand accounts.

“The Voluntary Government Design, a Free Market Government Invention, ended in 1788, and you have to understand how that works, or you, if you can, you can show me where I am wrong.”

I want to be able to do that. I want to be able to believe that the con con was all good. But I think I can see past that now. However, I think we have spoken before that to have a con con now would open ourselves up to a world of trouble. Is that right? I was listening to Bill Cooper/Linda Thompson interviews last night and someone called into the talk show and spoke of Ross Perot calling for a con con during his run for election. The caller was a John Birch person who was supportive of the Perot campaign, but not that aspect. Did you know about Ross Perot wanting a con con?

“You want one, then why are you paying Involuntary Taxes?”

Matthew 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said , Doth not your master paytribute? 25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? 26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free. 27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

I pay taxes in order not to offend them, because if I offend them, I will smart for it. I am saving my own skin. Human nature?
-----------------------

“What can We The People Volunteer to do now?
Is that the question?
1.
End the FED
2.
End the IRS
3.
Bring the Troops Home
4.
Have all that done by July 4th, 2013 or sooner, but not too late.”

And all of that can be accomplished if we will but create our own money. But the conditioning to use Caesar’s money is too great. So we stand at the machine even when we could liberate ourselves?
--------------
Joe Quotes: “Every town, every city, every county, every State, and especially every Nation State on Earth, in one way or another, is controlled by the few people running the Single Legal Money POWER”

Yes, that is why we must take those positions of power. Ron Paul wanted us to do it by taking over the Party called the GOP. Or to do what we want to do toward the goal of Liberty, as I remember him saying we all have different interests.

Thank you Joe, for another Lesson in Liberty.

...

Yes or No Help

"Birch person who was supportive of the Perot campaign, but not that aspect. Did you know about Ross Perot wanting a con con?"

I was both a member of the John Birch Society and United We Stand (Ross Perot Group), and a Constitutional Convention is certainly a good thing if done with Transparency by true Representatives of Voluntary Associations.

The Con Con (confidence scheme con game) that happened in 1787 was a censored, Gag Ordered, closed door, dirty compromise, and Crime being made Legal by Criminals who volunteered to be Criminals and then they "volunteered" all their targeted victims to be slaves.

You, again, can't find another person on Planet Earth able to write that last sentence, but a Modern Day Patrick Henry, or George Mason can confirm the actual fact of the matter.

Yes

or

No

You tell me.

A Congress meets to solve the Enemy Foreign and Domestic Problem, and when the Congress decides on action, they decide to create a Democratic Federated Republic, and it works, and the enemies are no longer paid so well, both foreign and domestic.

What is the problem of a Congress having a meeting to solve a problem?

You tell me.

"I pay taxes in order not to offend them, because if I offend them, I will smart for it. I am saving my own skin. Human nature?"

So long as you see that it is evil, you will work to solve that problem, and so long as other people think that it is good, to invest in this type of investment, then it will persist, as it was designed that way to persist, as the slaves (Stockholm Syndrome) are MADE to succumb to Absolute Abject Believe in Falsehood Without Question.

Even that masters suffer the same fate.

That is all in Scripture as far as I can understand Scripture, so far, and with your welcome help.

"And all of that can be accomplished if we will but create our own money. But the conditioning to use Caesar’s money is too great. So we stand at the machine even when we could liberate ourselves?"

You are so far along, so far from where you were, that in my opinion, pretending to be teacher, you get an A+ with extra credit for that message, and it stands as a message without having anything to do with you. You can be totally absent, and the message remains POWERFUL. Because you wrote it, is it not proof of you earning credit?

"Yes, that is why we must take those positions of power. Ron Paul wanted us to do it by taking over the Party called the GOP. Or to do what we want to do toward the goal of Liberty, as I remember him saying we all have different interests."

Around the time I found The John Birch Society, Ludwig Von Mises, Ros Perot, Alex Jones, I also found Ron Paul, so the omission is thankfully no longer omitted.

Ron Paul is the genuine thing that the Legal Criminals would like to Counterfeit, but there is no way that they can, because doing so would surrender their power of deceit.

"Thank you Joe, for another Lesson in Liberty."

I will check out those links posted, to see if I can invent some worthy sentences to publish. I can also tell you that I have a new step taken in the book project, having possibly sent in a usable .pdf Book Cover file to Book Masters.

I can send you the book cover file via e-mail if you want to approve it, or see it, it is large because they demand hi pixel counts for printing purposes.

Let me know.

Please.

Joe

Long over due

“The Con Con (confidence scheme con game) that happened in 1787 was a censored, Gag Ordered, closed door, dirty compromise, and Crime being made Legal by Criminals who volunteered to be Criminals and then they "volunteered" all their targeted victims to be slaves.
You, again, can't find another person on Planet Earth able to write that last sentence, but a Modern Day Patrick Henry, or George Mason can confirm the actual fact of the matter.
Yes
or
No
You tell me.”

You are the first person who ever said words like those to me. However, they were not that strong to begin with. I have added that quote to Joe Quotes II
------------------
“A Congress meets to solve the Enemy Foreign and Domestic Problem, and when the Congress decides on action, they decide to create a Democratic Federated Republic, and it works, and the enemies are no longer paid so well, both foreign and domestic.
What is the problem of a Congress having a meeting to solve a problem?
You tell me.”

I suppose it would be a problem if the congress solves the problem in a way in which they were not authorized. I suppose it might also be a problem if the congress places the burden of the resolution of the problem on an involuntary group of people.

...