79 votes

Everyone sees what they want to see

In response to: Truthers continue to see what they want to see.

Everyone sees what they want to see:

  • The truthers and the antitruthers;
  • The believers and the non-believers;
  • The Paul supporters and the Paul haters;
  • The statists and the anarchists;
  • The gold bugs and the paper pushers;
  • The carnivores and the vegans;
  • The Keyensianists and the Austrianists;
  • The IP defenders and the trashers;
  • The Republicans, the Democrats.

Isn't that clear enough by now? Doesn't all the data here on the DP point in that direction? There is no way we can have unity, nor is there reason to. People believe what they believe until they change their mind. Or rather, until their minds are mystically, magically changed.

Don't take it personally, and don't hold it against anyone.

People see what they want to see. Everyone does it.




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Objective

Lest we forget, even eye witnesses are not, always, reliable. We cannot even trust our own damned eyes!!

And with that said...

The Evidence still shows that the Original story of 9/11 was a lie. Not only that 6 out of 10 9/11 commissioners agree openly!

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
- Ron Paul

Michael Nystrom's picture

And if that is the case

Why do people believe that the original story is true?

Are those people "responsible" for that belief? If they one day have an epiphany and switch sides, are they "responsible" for the epiphany, in whatever form it took? (i.e. an offhand comment from a stranger, a weird news report, a random youtube video, or just waking up one morning and realizing - it has all been a ruse!)

I'm interested in hearing responses: Are people responsible for their beliefs?

All art is only done by the individual. The individual is all you ever have, and all schools only serve to classify their members as failures. E.H.

responsibility

I think people are responsible for their actions not beliefs.

Even if those actions are influenced by their beliefs, and even if you think that people are not responsible for their beliefs -- they are to be held accountable only for their actions.

Why do people believe the official story?

I suspect a big part of it has to do with the implications of NOT believing it. It forces people to have to reconsider their entire reality. I accepted the official story for quite a while because of those implications. I never looked too far into it or just kinda dismissed oddities because it was just easier to not know. Additionally, I had been taught all throughout my lifetime that the government was, for the most part, good. That the intentions of our "leaders" were, for the most part, pure. They wanted the best for us and even to protect us from *those people*, whoever they might be, who may want to do us harm. That whole notion of American exceptionalism which leads us to assume that because ours was a nation founded on something entirely different, the first of its kind, that we would forever remain the most free and righteous by virtue of merely continuing to exist. So why ever question that they might be intentionally lying to us? Sure, sometimes politicians could be individually selfish or scheming, but not to this degree and on such a large scale. And surely if they were somehow involved someone would have said something. The news would be all over it, right? Right?

But then it got to a point where there was just too much evidence to dismiss, and the further I looked into it the more convincing it became to me that the official story was a total fabrication. Accepting this is what woke me up from the whole left/right paradigm. Everything that didn't make sense to me regarding the world and our government suddenly started to become more clear. The pieces began to fall into place. The implications were far reaching and terrifying.

It's hard to have to consider that we don't have as much control or input into our government, our world, our life as we might originally think we do. It's difficult to accept that there may me a large group of sociopaths orchestrating much of what happens in our world. It's frightening to think that 1984 may not just be an interesting work of fiction, but possibly something very similar to our reality. The illusion is just convincing enough for most people to never see the reality. I guess I can't really blame them.

So, are people responsible for their beliefs? I think the answer is that ultimately yes, they are. However, we should have some patience and understanding when trying to persuade them to reconsider those beliefs. Reevaluating what one has held as true for so long is an internal process that requires one to divorce the personal attachment one places on their beliefs. They may feel that their entire identity, or at least a part of it, is structured around these beliefs and that letting go of those ideas is letting go of a part of themselves in a way. And when it comes to 9-11, denying the official story is having to wake up to the notion that much of what you see everyday is one big fat lie. I think people who accept the official version know this, and it's easier to just say that a lie of that size could never be than to accept that it might very well be.

I'm reaching up and reaching out.
I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
Spiral out.

DJP333's picture

Such a simple but strange question

People are responsible for their actions, I know that for sure. But how can you hold someone responsible for their beliefs, when beliefs are always changing and influenced by so many forces? Conundrum!

“In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
"Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves."

Great!

And it is intelligent responses , like this one, that keep me coming back to join in. I hate reading yahoo comments. Most can't get past the ad hominum attacks, to intelligently discuss differences!

People are responsible for their beliefs.

People are not responsible for the facts. That is why operating on beliefs is so dicey.
I don't bother much with 9-11 any more, but 9-12... I do not "believe" there was a crime committed, there was wall to wall video news coverage of a crime. It is a felony to destroy a crime scene before3 the investigation is done. Some choose to ignore that fact, and they are responsible for aiding the media and government in the cover up.
I believed Pharma was trying to make people better. I am responsible for the damage I did, even though it was done in total ignorance. Indeed, what is good in my heart blinded me to facts, because I believed I was a good person, and so the work I did was good. Understanding my role and then becoming a whistle blower is essentially "penance" for my "sin."
Next up? Bitcoin. Many "believe" it has intrinsic value. Today, they ride high, perhaps laughing at me and my devaluing silver, and yet.... I can still make the exact same amount of colloidal silver today that I could a week or a month ago.... Who is operating on fact and who is investing in their beliefs? I'm quite content to sit back and see how it unfolds.... Those investing in beliefs will be held financially responsible for their beliefs.
And I disagree with the way you phrased your premise, actually. I saw what I wanted to see for 40+ years, what I see now is not something I wanted to see, nor enjoy seeing. I think I understand what you are getting at, that we tend to seek evidence to support what we already believe, rather than seek truth without bias. That is indeed a very human trait, but I think there are people genuinely trying to rise above that - perhaps even some success in the endeavor.

This is the article that got my posting privileges revoked:
http://bklim.newsvine.com/_news/2013/05/12/18212165-dr-stan-...

I wish I could up-vote your reply 100 times.

I think we are FULLY responsible for what we believe, both now and in the past(ignorance is an easy excuse), and that once we know, then it becomes our moral duty to also let others know. I'd venture to bet that most of us here have learned FAR more(about anything) in the recent years that we've been awake than at any other time in our lives. I come down harder on today's generation because they have it at their fingertips in regards to researching different topics and their various sources, as opposed to an older generation that was forced to rely on information from MSM and the government/education department. Having said that, I also applaud the great number of young people that are awake and "CHOOSE" to be awake, instead of "CHOOSING" to watch the kardashians or become glued to social media.

TPTB's power comes from the people's ignorance and unwillingness to care/act, and in the age of information, ignorance is indeed a "choice".

reading, appreciating--

it's true--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

ecorob's picture

Here is a GREAT example...

The world is flat. The world is round.

When the truth comes out it will be universally accepted.

The truth is the truth. I am a truther. I will wear that label proudly.

The world is round. No plane hit the Pentagon.

Soon, this truth will be accepted universally. It is what it is. The truth!

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

While I appreciate your sentiment,...

I sure as hell do not want to see what I am seeing.

This is so true!

However----this doesn't mean we should quit trying to promote Liberty. "They can never unhear what we have told them." ~Ron Paul~

Do they?

or do most of them believe what they are shown and told?

Michael Nystrom's picture

Those that are at that level do

I used to be at that level. I broke out pretty early because of something I saw. I got to compare MSM coverage of a "national" event, and the local reality quite early. I was in the 6th grade for the "Blizzard of Seattle." in (I think 1979). It was a snowstorm. Big, fluffy. They closed down school. It was awesome. Awesome. A snow day is such a gift. To kids - even now. The unexpected closure of the routine is such a welcome event. Even for me. I love snow days. I love basking in the glory of the joy that I experience on such days.

But on ABC News in 1979, it was portrayed as "The Blizzard of Seattle." Roads closed; schools closed. A disaster! From the MSM's perspective, that is. Watching that coverage on the national news (Seattle was a 'small town' then. Funny to think of it now, for me, having been away for 10 years,). So it was a big deal that Seattle was on the MSM. Back then the MSM consisted of ABC 4 (KOMO), NBC 5 (KING), CBS 7 (KIRO), PBS (KCTS 9) and one local station KSTW 11. KSTW 11 showed the cartoons in the afternoon. It didn't show news. The channels had numbers; the numbers had names. There were only 5 of them. There were spaces between them. There were TV towers in my neighborhood. My - those were mighty sights to a kindergartener. To look right up a TV tower. We still had bomb raid sirens in '72 when I just started school. I can barely remember them.

So up until then, I believed what I was shown and told.

After that I got suspicious about the MSM. That was 79. The full and final break came in 1999. The WTO protests in Seattle. I saw that one first hand, and I saw it on the news also.

All art is only done by the individual. The individual is all you ever have, and all schools only serve to classify their members as failures. E.H.

Man, you are older than me,

Man, you are older than me, and I thought it was the other way.

I use to live in Seattle in the early 90s. Had a very intense time which I'll write about one of these days. Was on the frontpage of the Seattle Times at one point. Used to go the local Libertarian party there when it was in Pioneer Square.

It wasn't a good experience. It was a huge sinfully experience, knowing a lot of criminals and not really knowing that I knew them. Too much of the occult. But, it gives me something to reflect on without having to have that sort of experience again. And if it wasn't for Seattle, I wouldn't know some of my extended family aren't good people. Hey, learning!

But it's a pretty town, moderate weather, and lots of coffee and books. And God can be found in Seattle too :)

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Michael Nystrom's picture

Thank you. That is an interesting story

I remember reading that when people say, "I liked Seattle" (or fill in the blank), it simply means, "I was happy when I was there."

Sounds like it was an interesting experience in Seattle, and I look forward to reading it. My memories are bittersweet as well. I'm sure it has changed so much. I left in 2003 - 10 years ago! Wow. And the last time I was back was in 2005, I think, when my father died.

That ending wasn't good. I wasn't ready for that, but I should have been. I thought he would live forever.

All art is only done by the individual. The individual is all you ever have, and all schools only serve to classify their members as failures. E.H.
Michael Nystrom's picture

And that was really the final straw

To see it up close, and to see it as projected to the nation. Wow. That was an experience.

Oh, and worst of all - the final breaker - was rushing home to beat the curfew. I was actually in a hurry. I was 31 and still living at home with my dad. Dad was home base. From home I jumped around to different places in the world. Australia and New Guinea in high school. Japan and Korea in College, with an extended stay in Japan in the early 90's. Then, after dropping out of the workforce at the height of the bull market (bull markets inspire such optimism), traveling to Portugal, Germany, The Netherlands, Norway, Czechoslovakia, France, Spain, Italy, Rome, The Vatican, Greece (No cyprus), Cairo, Giza, Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, Bangkok, Ko Samui, Ko Tao, Tokyo, and back to Seattle. Then a drive from Washington to Oregon, California, Nevada, Utah, (missed Colorado).

It was in that context that I watched this. Having been around the world; having my mind blown; having come to an intuitive understanding that somehow, the US was keeping the rest of the world poor, I came home to this propaganda.

I was at the protest. It shut down the city, and it shut down the meeting. There was jubilation in the streets. I felt like I was part of a movie, of The Unbearable Lightness of Being. Part of a revolution.

It was a beautiful feeling. But it was an emotion backed by ... The only thing that was backing it was a feeling. A feeling that it was wrong.

Since then I have come to a fuller understanding of what stands behind the WTO. Back then I just had an intuitive understanding that it was bad. In today's infowar, word on the WTO is that it is an unelected body that is imposing rules on us all. Eventually they're going to smother us, whether they intend to or not. But smothers us they will, for that is the nature of government.

All art is only done by the individual. The individual is all you ever have, and all schools only serve to classify their members as failures. E.H.

This was pretty much the

This was pretty much the point of us "conspiracy theorists" in the 90s - ie Rivero, Whitewater, etc.

We weren't theorizing or making conclusions. We were pointing out things in the news that couldn't be true as they reported them.

It's a lot worse now then than, but I think more people are thinking too.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Michael Nystrom's picture

I think it is worse now than then too, but I'm not sure...

This North Korea thing is a huge hoax. If this were going to be a real war, Gold would be going crazy. Instead it had a huge drop today - fell off a cliff.

I don't know all the lies that I still believe to be true. What I've come to realize is that I have no grasp of the true nature of the reality of our country. Everything I was indoctrinated about it is a lie, pretty much. The US is a force of tyranny, both domestically and abroad.

I think you're right that in the 90's there was a lot of 'pointing out' but no explanation as to 'why.' Now it seems that the MSM doesn't do any 'poiting out' - no more Rivero, no more Whitewater, no more Nightline.

But it was Nightline that was part of my awakening. At the WTO protests, I couldn't wait to see what Koppel had to say about the protests. It had to be the biggest story.

But nope. You know what the biggest story that night was?

Elian Gonzales

All art is only done by the individual. The individual is all you ever have, and all schools only serve to classify their members as failures. E.H.

thanks for the memory

another reason I am so skeptical and sensitive of anything being blown out of proportion in the news.

Michael Nystrom's picture

Yeah that was a big wake up call for me

Like anytime you get a wakeup call when you're still fast asleep, it was disorienting.

Why wasn't Ted Kopple covering the WTO protest in Seattle? There must have been 50,000 people on the streets. It was a sea of people as far as the eye could see. We shut down the meeting. We weren't going away.

So the mayor called a curfew. A curfew! In a major American city. Not during wartime. It was extraordinary!

I couldn't wait to see what Koppel had to say. This was going to be great. I had to walk about 8 blocks out of the city core to get a bus. I couldn't wait to tell my dad what happened, then get Ted's take.

And then...

Elian Gonzales? It was like - WTF. I know that is such a cliche, but it was bewildering.

And as the Seattle protests went on all week, so did the coverage of Elian Gonzales. All week long.

That was a huge piece of data. That was my cynical awakening.

All art is only done by the individual. The individual is all you ever have, and all schools only serve to classify their members as failures. E.H.

those WTO protests are why we have "free speech zones"

They sure went to all lengths to make sure that didn't happen again. I guess I heard about it because I lived in the Northwest and I was on the Internet. I didn't have a television anyway.

No Matter WHAT the news media is talking about--

Most of us who come here to Daily Paul are wondering, "What important issue is this meant to cover up?" Be it Elian Gonzales, Caylee, the pregnant woman murdered by her husband in SanFran,her body dumped in the bay(this was years ago and I don't remember the names, but this was in the news for over a year!)the mass shooting events, etc.!
The events like the WTO protests are always portrayed as crazy losers protesting a "good" thing, if they are mentioned at all!

No kidding last week we where worried about who loves who

Your right
Obama get a big pass on his Drone war, Bank protection,and seed copyright act.

Because most are worried about who can love who.
and Illegal people. Illegal people what a Christian concept "kidding"

Or last night some one told me how gays are bad because the only book said so. WOW!
Well his country of origin is north of mine, so do I get to take his wife for my family slaves. Shouldn't be to hard they come from a country that has strict gun laws.
So I guess I be the master in this deal?

This is sarcastic BS I am spouting off but when someone wants to tell someone else who to love LOVE LOVE.. it seem a little no make that a lot stupid.

Just want what seems to be missing, Truth and Justice for ALL
What is fraud except creating “value” from nothing and passing it off as something?