6 votes

Bitcoin is a huge nail in the elite's coffin

All this talk about bitcoin pros and cons seems to miss one aspect that I think is the single most relevant point we should focus on.

Breaks In Their Chain
History shows us that at times when the people gain some new technology to unite them against the centralized collectivists of the ruling elite, they do make great strides. This happened when capability of the written word the printing press both reached the masses. We have also seen exactly how the centralized control of these mediums soon after (RP said they both took around 30 years) shut down those movements.

Here we are 30 years after the internet (15 for the masses) and we're watching this great awakening that is massive compared to any time in history. What's happening? We're also seeing the elites trying their damndest to take control of it. Fortunately for us, this time is different. See below.

With the advent of this great equalizing tool, we have seen other divergences from the monopolized, centrally controlled society. We have unlimited and essentially anonymous, direct and broadcast video. We have unlimited communications. Even things like education and news is at our fingertips through channels they have no power over. This last year or three has even seen three dimensional design files for all sorts of products being shared anonymously among a community that has been fine tuning homemade printers to create those devices from nothing more than scrap plastic.

What a breakthrough this is for the individual in their fight against control!

Seeing this trend a couple years ago, I started following everything that I could find that keeps us dependent. Things like energy, food, water, finance, education, communication... They all have been under TPTB control. But they all are falling, and fast.

Just as the computer and internet power is exponentially growing for the benefit of the little guy, so have the solutions which break those next barriers.

As an example, we all know that hydroponics is a higher density garden than traditional ones, yet it relies on some inputs that still can be controlled. However, aquaponics does not so the natural progression should be there. And that is exactly what has been happening. The reason is not just because it is higher density, it's because it has less or no downsides, especially in the area of control.

Distributed Resiliancy
In this same way, Bitcoin offers a solution with no downsides. Sure, it can be attacked ($40 dropped to $10 a couple years ago) but just like precious metals, if the people remain standing behind it, it cannot be wiped out completely. This is it's appeal. This is why it has and will continue to rise above all others.

For so many who jumped on the gold and silver bandwagon, they have been patient for so long waiting for the elites' power to manipulate it to fall. We may all agree it's going to happen but no one can guarantee it will come before the crash. Bitcoin, on the other hand, has already begun its foray into the alternative, distributed realm and is allowing a true free market to rise.

Sure, we will see some hiccups along the way. They will outlaw them, block them and tax them and try all sorts of things. Some of this will even scare people away. However, nothing they can do will truly harm it. Even if they wanted to drive its price down, they would have to buy them first because there's no parallel paper market for them. Even the new futures market on them has no bearing because it is live and instant 24/7. That amounts to nothing more than an unrelated bet on their value by a tiny group of people that the masses don't care about.

So Where Does That Leave Us Going Forward?
So, I say bitcoin is here to stay. It will likely run as a dual check on gold and silver manipulation during the fall of paper currencies. And it will find its level as determined by how much wealth is collectively stored in it. From what I've seen, this leads to a stable price of hundreds of thousands per bitcoin.

Ushering In An Alternate Economy
Another lens to view this through, however, is the effect it has on central banking. Without the physical paper currency being used, central banks' system of credit crashes hard. VERY HARD. They stand to lose all banking functions. There is not one single service they provide that can't be done instantly, better, cheaper and completely anonymously with the combination of the internet and Bitcoin. Transfers, loans, savings, purchases, start-up investments, charity, insurance... all of these can now be done by the people and without any government interference or even knowledge! Let that sink is for a second. No secret manipulation of the stock market. No bank fees or compounded interest on every charge. No payment processing fees. This means no loss of the current 40%+ that's being robbed from our economy. That's an immediate gain in OUR REAL WEALTH of 66%. Immediate!

For those that choose to do so, it even offers no taxes. Talk about a savings on the economic strains of society. Wasn't a tenant of the libertarian platform that taxes should be voluntary? :)

But wait, there's more...
If, and that's a big point, IF we also eliminated interest in this endeavor, we could also eliminate inflation. Gone would be the creation of debt without the concurrent creation of currency. Gone would be the incentive to move back to the world of scarcity. Just think of it. We could store enough wealth in metals and Bitcoin today to buy a used truck and in 10 years, we could come back and probably have Bitcoin left over after buying one. I'll leave other ramifications to the discussion.

What Are Our Goals?
But even if we didn't go that far, we could certainly create alternative, privately owned enterprises for every segment of society to use. Isn't this the Liberty we've all been fighting for?

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buy them first?

No argument from me that bitcoins are potentially revolutionary and awesome in concept.

People should not succumb to whishfull thinking though that they really know what the truth is and that there is no risk.

Bitcoins own about page http://bitcoin.org/en/about notes that "The creator of Bitcoin never revealed his identity and simply left his invention to the world. The origin and the motivation behind Bitcoin is still today a great source of mystery."

a review of the bitcoin history page https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/History details security breaches in which hundreds of thousands of bitcoins were stolen, accounts were hacked, and a "previously undiscovered protocol" caused technical issues with the new client.

with that as a background you claim that in ordered to crash the price insiders would have to buy them first. But you have no idea who owns the majority of the bitcoins. There have been very large transactions early in the history of the network. Insiders may already own a majority of the coins.

I say support bitcoin, build the network, decentralize, but dont put all your eggs in one basket and keep a healthy skepticism as well.

Bullshit

They are in full control of the internet and electricity, thus making bitcoin nothing more than a novelty.

You're misled

At no time in history have the people had the power they currently hold over things like the internet.

There is simply no way possible that the internet can be stopped at this point. If one small town in the entire world fails to abide by 'the command' to shut it down, their systems will stay running. Sure they may not get a connection to a site across the country but the info is still there. Even shutting down the single failure point (DNS - domain naming service) would only serve to delay it while the still on routers rebuild the lists.

And... If that wasn't enough, just like Egypt(?) did during their internet shut-down, we could always redirect our cell phones to mesh together and keep communications going. The software has already been adopted by nearly 2 million people globally. How would they kill 2 million cell phones from being turned on and talking directly to another cell without using any tower?

And electricity? Please. I think someone has underestimated the off-grid movement that's been accelerating for the last decade. Even whole towns are off-grid now.

Still think it's BS? Probably so because you're not seeing this from the opportunity side like it really is.

I feel the problem with bitcoin is

How do you know who made it and why? really, besides rumor... ?

Who profits from it,really besides rumor...?

With a stroke of a pen or hack they can crush it, easily...

It i not something you can hold in your hand and feel safe with...

99.995 of users don´t know how it works... especially those that think they do...

Besides it is usually not a wise idea to chase things on the upside....

I stay away from that, but i wish bitcoins well.

That's all fair, until you learn more about it

Once you learn how it works (and I agree that most people will never do so, but they don't know how FRNs work either, right?), you'll find that each of your concerns are kind of moot. Your points:

Who made it? While YOU may not know who made it, the system definitely knows. The system of thousands of computers tracks the progress of its members and awards bitcoins to the winners of a cryptography contest. If you know what you're doing, you can watch this process, but you can't identify that 'winner' with an actual computer for privacy's sake.

Who profits? No one. It's not an investment. It's a medium of exchange that, while in the adoption stage, is ACTING like an investment. If people want to get into them without mining (preceding paragraph), they must purchase them. And while supply is still shorter than demand, that price will rise. So, anyone holding one during a price rise will profit. Should demand fall below supply, the reverse is true.

This boils down to guesstimating what the global market for them is. All 'educated' estimates on this show there's approaching a trillion dollars that could chase this process. Until the rate of growth of bitcoin quantity surpasses the rate of growth of that money entering, the price will rise. And since bitcoin mining is constantly slowing (exponentially), we can be relatively sure this won't happen until the market cap gets close to the trillion mark.

The interesting and oft missed aspect of this is that it cuts the banks out of the financial loop of markets. They currently rob around 40% of each transaction (all told), so taking this away from them deleverages them 100:1 or more. What could be more pro 'end the fed' than that?

"They" can crush it? No, they can't. They can't track, hack or kill it off. It has it's bases covered in that area. To show how, try this. I'll start with a dozen numbers. I'll multiply them against each other and send you the result. Can you ever determine the original numbers? Does it matter how many people see that result? My original numbers are safe, regardless of what you do. What if I give prizes to computers that constantly make this more complicated? Will you ever be able to out-compete them and crack the problem?

AFA shutting it down, you assume it relies on the internet. It doesn't. It works from any communication method where people can send a code to someone else. You could, in theory, even snail-mail a code to a friend and exchange money but that would get tricky until other things become more popular.

I understand the holding physical things aspect but we don't currently have that in anything now. Tell me one thing you can physically hold that you can pay to Amazon, eBay, the power company, the traffic court or McDonald's? It doesn't exist. You're looking for the false security of FRNs which is what has gotten us into this mess.

Upside? This is the very beginning of the bell curve of it's price. If you can for a moment, accept that a bitcoin is going to be worth nearly a million $ each (I like to say "20 brand new, loaded pickup trucks", then you see today's price as just breaking off the zero line. If still not convinced, look at www.bitcoincharts.com and switch the scale to logarithmic. Put any time frame in there you want and you'll see it's virtually always a straight line. It's not a bubble at all. What you're fixated on is that it appears parabolic, exponential or bubble-like. In reality, it's nothing more than constant growth, not unlike fiat paper money's value drops.

Hope this helps.

ok

I see.

I wish I had bought bitcoins

a year ago when I was looking at it. But I damn sure am not going to buy in after a fast run up. This is the way you can lose your ass, only fools rush in at the peak.

I hope people are not stupid enough to cash in silver or gold to buy bitcoins. This could be an attempt by the bankster to shake gold sand silver from investors and get them into bitcoins. Looks pretty fishy to me silver and gold dropping while bitcoin is exploding.

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

My 3rd son and I keep up on this quite a bit

Our first conversation on it was when you could mine about 2-5 BTC per day and the price was (I think) around 10 cents. We regret this so much because he had nearly $500 at the time to invest but we didn't know if that much money would overwhelm the entire Bitcoin market!

Should'da, Would'da, Could'da!

Well wriiten

And pleasant to read.
While Bitcoin may not be the entity to do this, eventually the people will stay ahead of the Elite. That's the way I see it. Haters gonna Hate.

Ron brought the Liberty movement together, Rand is expanding the crap out of it! :)

Confucius say he who rely on

Confucius say he who rely on electronic banking will need to eat electronic food

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul

Funny

what a crackup!

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

if you're buying this

if you're buying this crap...pretty soon it's going to be a nail in YOUR coffin

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bitcoin-hacked-price-stumbles-...

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul

sounds

sounds like msm is trying to scare people about bitcoin... more proving its legitamacy

Some of you Bitcoin

Some of you Bitcoin supporters may want to man the suicide hotlines. Those who have bought Bitcoins in the last day or two might be needing your support.

40% haircut in the last few hours...$260 to $150.

http://sgtreport.com/2013/04/breaking-bitcoin-crashing/

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul

Absolutely. That's exactly how I see it

No Bitcoins were compromised. The value was not devalued or subject to inflation. The only problem was that people, in the heat of their frenzy, got lazy. They placed too much faith in one exchange company to see them Bitcoin. When that company was overloaded (DDOS is not hacking, it's just making their site too busy to do real stuff), THAT COMPANY couldn't continue their transactions for a while. The overall system is perfectly fine.

The reason the price fell was because too many people bought into them for the sole reason of making a quick buck. They heard that "Bitcoin" got hacked (joke - see above) and fled. The result? The exchange rate lost back $40 of it's mega-rise ($130+ in couple months) for a few hours. When that dust settled, it regained more than $30. Now it's back on a more steady climb.

I think yesterday was a great thing. It basically separated the speculators from the rest of the crowd. In doing so, I see much more discussion on how epic of a change this could end up being for the global economy. Fasten your seatbelt!

Pretty

soon, the FEDS will put bitcoin out of business. Watch and see.

I'm watching

and what I'm seeing is that they're trying but, just like the internet, they can't control it because there's no central aspect or 'business' to it.

Four votes

no discussion?