4 votes

Gold priced in Bitcoin Falls -23% Today

The price of gold when measured in terms of bitcoin is down -90% in the last 3 months and has fallen -23% today alone.

The current value of the gold bitcoin ratio is 11.1052:

(click for live graph)

The ratio peaked at around 840 at the end of 2011.

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The best way into bitcoin is

The best way into bitcoin is to start mining them with you GPU provided it is an AMD 5850 or better.

Been mining them for 2.5 years on my two 5850s and built up to 155 BTC's...

Which were then stolen from the BTC-E.com exchange last night. Due to my own stupidity of not using a strong enough password and enabling a security feature to prevent withdrawal of the coins without email confirmation. But, oh well, back to mining!

The gold, silver, fiat thread has over 15,000 comments

Priced in gold, silver and copper is all good by me.

Free includes debt-free!

The title does not really make sense.

Falling -23% means ascending 23%. But what the hey, hooray for Bitcoin investors!!!!!!!

I hope PMs do this kind of mad propulsion in the near future. But I would never say poo poo to smart DPers hitting it big like I see some posters are doing below. It's all fair game. Good play! No need to comment on negativity. Enjoy the ride.

Remember Michael Nystrom and his selfless contributions to liberty before you log out.

you're right

I should have framed it differently. And the gold to bitcoin ratio doesn't even speak to how both of them are doing versus the dollar.

Nonetheless bitcoin are making some ground on gold and it is a notable trend. I agree it is better to frame the situation with less negativity, however. Will try keep this in mind in future.

Not you, goldNET.

I was talking about all the nasty people that are so upset that y'all Bitcoiners are raking it in. Unbelievable. Your title was doubly negative though...er...a double negative with the - -23%. It was super positive for Bitcoiners.

It's currently a speculation bubble

People are buying to hold, not buying to spend.

You buy a stock or asset to hold. You buy a currency to spend (or save for spending later). Right now the value of Bitcoins is going up so fast that vendors are having difficulty pricing their goods at a level that won't be obsolete a day later.

Bitcoin scarcity is driving the market right now. That being said, it could crash tomorrow, or it could go on to $2,000 per coin or more. You never know when a crash will happen in a speculation bubble, only that it will.

This doesn't mean that Bitcoin is a bad currency, just that it's new, and popular. It needs to mature.

Just know this: if Bitcoin succeeds, and isn't harnessed and neutered by governments, prices far higher than $150 per coin are inevitable.

Global GDP denominated in USD is currently about $70 trillion. If Bitcoin ends up replacing even 5% of the global economy, and there will eventually be a max of 21 million Bitcoins in circulation, the (crudely estimated) price per coin would be approximately:

$70 trillion x 5% / 21 million = $166,667 per coin.

Just a question, if 21 million bitcoins are the total potential

how can it gain widespread acceptance? What about the other 279,000,000 people in the US alone? and that is assuming that the other 21,000,000 have only one coin each. And what if one of the 21 million buys something with their bitcoin? Seems like this would end up being an exclusive currency, for the limited few. Is it possible to own "part" of a bitcoin?

Obviously, I don't know how this works.

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
Friedrich Nietzsche

One bit coin is divisible into a million parts

That's 21 million million or 21,000,000,000,000

Free includes debt-free!

Western Union supposedly is

Western Union supposedly is going to look to allow people to pay with bitcoins. WordPress.org also allows payments in bitcoins. This kind of adoption of bitcoin as a payment method only increases the attractiveness of the digital currency.

Also Amazon.com

Their new program FBA (fulfillment by Amazon) allows one to purchase anything from Amazon via Bitpay.com


"We’ve moved beyond the Mises textbook. We’re running in the open market." - Erik Voorhees

merchants are part of the key

Wide and easy convertibility are paramount to bitcoin dominating as a currency. The internet has made commerce much more global and this will encourage monetary mechanisms that, like gold, serve as more global mediums of exchange.

wow, massive sign bitcoin is

wow, massive sign bitcoin is going to drop dramatically at some point

Not necessarily

If bitcoin was a stock then I'd say yes, but it's an evolving currency. At some point it will stabilize but I don't see that happening for a while.

i agree with this

currencies by nature have self-propagating effects. The increased attractiveness of bitcoin make them more attractive and are leading to a lot of fundamental industry growth. Lots more services popping up now and retailers.

I would guess the ratio of gold to bitcoin will continue to favor bitcoin for a while, despite the fact I remain very bullish on precious metals.

This would be a good chart... if

If it could somehow include the manipulation taking place in gold.

We all know that gold's price is highly suppressed. It's being manipulated downward very hard. If not, many believe it would have risen to levels around $6,500 or so. So, until that is shown, this chart has much less meaning. To compare a rigged number to a non-riggable one only really shows the amount of rigging involved.

What could give this chart meaning however, is if some unrigged aspect of gold was shown that did give a semblance of what people want gold to go to. I don't know of something like this exists, but let's say we could track the going rate for "premium above spot" in the trench market. In other words, stay away from the big banks' dealings and just look at the margin over spot from regular dealers. That number has got to have gone up since gold plateau'd a couple years ago.

If gold's price is

If gold's price is "manipulated" then the current price is the real price. Because you want it to be higher wont make it higher. Manipulated or not, you cannot expect it to sell outside its current trading range. Everything is manipulated to a degree because human beings are part of the valuation process. There is no "value" without self-interest.

I disagree

"The market" can want one price very strongly and JPM can short or sell the price down all by itself and you call that the real price? Rubbish. That's the price JPM wants it to be. Get them out of the game, like with bitcoin, and see what the market does.

Just because one bank has unfair influence by it's free market actions (manipulating it) does not mean we should call the outcome a real value.

Gold and silver are being manipulated heavily, just as every other aspect of our fiat economy is. Do those count as accurate free market real valuations too? To my knowledge, there's only one type of currency that isn't being manipulated in some way and the result is exactly what one would expect metals to do without that gaming.

The good news is that it's a circular, positive reinforcement situation. More adoption creates more fiat problems, which creates more fiat games, which creates more adoption.
See: http://www.dailypaul.com/280547/bitcoin-is-a-huge-nail-in-th...

So, I tend to think it's the only REAL impression of what the market really wants.

Really? Who sells gold in exchange for bitcoin?

23% of nothing is still nothing.


It is a proxy

People buy and sell dollars for gold and buy and sell dollars for bitcoin. This can give you an indication of what a market for bitcoin and gold would look like since they have a common denominator. Nonetheless its a market indicator, and you can think of it as an effective ratio instead. Its just interesting to see the relative value of gold versus bitcoin.

Repricing stuff can give you a good indication of things you wouldn't realize in general. Pricing economic measures in gold often tell us how the real value is evolving. Like look at GDP, the national income of the US, priced in gold again the GDP priced in dollars:


Bitcoin is experiencing a bubble right now due to a number of factors. Personally, I'd be selling right now, not buying.


probably right, I've been resisting the temptation to get in for a little while now.

"Endless money forms the sinews of war." - Cicero, www.freedomshift.blogspot.com

When "everyone" is talking

When "everyone" is talking about something and "everyone" is either an expert or making "a ton of money"... it's time to sell.