48 votes

This fully engulfed 40 story skyscraper should collapse into its own footprint any minute now...right?


http://youtu.be/izNDNHK3_N8

GROZNY, Russia (TheBlaze/AP) — Fire has engulfed an unoccupied 40-story apartment building currently under construction in Chechnya, a once war-torn republic in southern Russia.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/03/stunning-photos-l...

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No plane

Hit building 7. According to NIST, it collapsed due only to the office fires.

Ron Paul convert from the Heart of Dixie

May not be right comparison

It is possible this building is earthquake resistant

I couldn't say for sure. I would assume so.

However, the WTC was supposed to be designed to withstand an earthquake or hurricane force winds per the architect who designed the towers, as well.

Ron Paul convert from the Heart of Dixie

Speaking of building 7

I came across this video not too long ago and I believe it backs up Barry Jennings account of what happened, does it not?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=95e_1319603090&comments=1

Ron Paul convert from the Heart of Dixie

Instead of downvoting

How about watching the video and answering the (LEGITIMATE) question. If you think I'm wrong, explain why. I'm willing to listen to other POV's. Just downvoting because you don't agree without explaining is the act of a coward...

Ron Paul convert from the Heart of Dixie

Confused

are you attacking me because i said i agree that the video likely validates what jennings said?

---Want to discuss politics with Mormons? Please read:

"Latter Day Liberty"-Connor Boyack(forward by Ron Paul

Doctrine and Covenants sections 134 & 89

Watch Secretary of Agg Ezra Taft Benson's discourse on "The Proper Role of Government"

No, not at all

That was directed at whoever was downvoting my comment without even replying. It was frustrating to see that because I thought it was a legitimate question to ask and it made no sense to me for someone to do that. Maybe I'm just extra cranky because I went to the dentist today and my mouth hurts. Sorry for the confusion.

Ron Paul convert from the Heart of Dixie

I would say so

I would say so. ya.

Makes me laugh i got a lot of down votes in 5 min

---Want to discuss politics with Mormons? Please read:

"Latter Day Liberty"-Connor Boyack(forward by Ron Paul

Doctrine and Covenants sections 134 & 89

Watch Secretary of Agg Ezra Taft Benson's discourse on "The Proper Role of Government"

Was watching RT this morning...

and the reporter explained that the ex-pat French actor Gerrard DePardieu (sp.) was given the keys to a huge suite to live in at this hotel just a couple weeks ago! So, here's my new theory: The French Actors' Guild did 9/11 !!! Sorry...just joshin'.

------------------
BC
Silence isn't always golden....sometimes it's yellow.

"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." - Patrick Henry

Stress Strain curve E=Stress/Strain

Look at the stress strain curve for steel to you can understand how the young's modulus for steel works. Then look at what happens to steel at a high heat level. Any engineer will tell you why steel must be fire proofed. Many buildings such as the Hancock building actually are fire proofed then more steel added on the outside for appearance.

There are a lot of architects and engineers and demolition experts that have said 9/11 was a controlled demolition. While Most I talk to in real life say otherwise. (I'm an Arch student)

It is entirely plausible that the towers went down because of the plain alone. If you look at the structure of the 2 towers it makes sense that once the structural core is taken out the whole thing would come down.

If a floor board (slab fails) only that section is taken out. A girder or beam only the section of the floor it holds goes out. If a column goes out so does every beam girder and floor it is supporting. If the structural core goes out then guess what happens. (For example a building that uses a concrete elevator shaft for support from sheer forces.

The 2 towers could have easily come down with just the airplanes. However let’s talk about what everyone meant by this video. Many people will say the airplane took down the twin towers. And that is completely logical. you don't have to be an idiot sheep to believe something like that so stop acting like those who spend their lives studying structure and engineering and government controlled drones, it’s not only insulting it hurts the legitimate argument that some like to make. Building 7.

Fire Proofing. Office fire. Office fires can be devastating. however at times furniture and fixtures that can act as fuel for fire are calculated so that even if there is a fire it cannot burn hot enough to damage the buildings structure. Fire Proofing does not make the building so that it is "FIRE PROOF” it slows down the fire so that occupants can get out. Not so that there is no damage to the structure.

Some postulate that the impact of the planes knocked the fireproofing off of the beams girders and support columns... this is absurdly unlikely. I have never heard of anything like that before, and not only that there were no other cases in the area of that happening.

It is possible that the office fire took down building 7. UNLIKELY (Even though codes for fireproofing have changed dramatically since then, according to an article I read on the Americans with Disabilities Act, since almost every commercial building must be ada compliant it is important to know that stuff if you are going to be designing)

TLDR
The video is comparing structure of building 7 not the 2 towers. Office fires don't normally take down buildings but can.

Stop calling those who think the planes took out the towers idiots. It’s completely plausible.

---Want to discuss politics with Mormons? Please read:

"Latter Day Liberty"-Connor Boyack(forward by Ron Paul

Doctrine and Covenants sections 134 & 89

Watch Secretary of Agg Ezra Taft Benson's discourse on "The Proper Role of Government"

Jefferson's picture

My

father has been a successful structural engineer for over 43 years. He believed the official story as well. He would get angry when someone would make allegations of it being a controlled demolition.

One day, he broke out a big legal pad and pencil and did the math when my little brother told him that 110 stories doesn't fall in 11 seconds without removing the resistance from below. Needless to say my dad was literally speechless after his little math exercise.

If you're an "arch" student, you'd do well to study the law of conservation of momentum. It might save you some embarrassment when you go to present your designs to structural engineers.

These "highly redundantly designed" award winning structures were made to withstand sustained winds of over 130 mph, earthquakes, and MULTIPLE impacts from a 707 (not that dissimilar from the planes on 9/11)

If you understand what "redundant" means, you'll understand that the rest of the structure picks up the stresses if a void is created in it.
Here....Take 44 seconds to let the (now missing) WTC Construction Manager explain it to you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAVd2txjNEc

99 percent invisible

Cool.

Ya i have seen the math behind the free fall problem i have also seen math i don't understand that tries to say the explosion propelled the structure downward (something you don't see in the video from the outside)

I dont know if your dad likes podcasts but i have found a lot of this great stuff from 99% invisible its a podcast on arch subjects and design.

http://99percentinvisible.org/post/9681215583/episode-35-ele...

There are limits to redundant systems, this is a conversation that is helpful in understanding when designing, car, plane, building, power plants etc.

After listening to the podcast it make me think a lot about how impractical truly safe skyscrapers can be. but i haven't designed any yet so i don't know for sure.

---Want to discuss politics with Mormons? Please read:

"Latter Day Liberty"-Connor Boyack(forward by Ron Paul

Doctrine and Covenants sections 134 & 89

Watch Secretary of Agg Ezra Taft Benson's discourse on "The Proper Role of Government"

Jefferson's picture

I've

never seen the "math" that alleges the buildings were "propelled" faster than a near freefall collapse. That's a new one on me.

One doesn't have to be an engineer to study the slow motion video of the demolition and recognize explosive squibs coming out faster than the mass on top is coming down.
You don't have to be one to understand that gravitational collapse doesn't pulverize concrete to talcum powder in mid air. You don't even have to be an engineer to understand that pooled kerosene (even with a perfect air fuel mixture) is not going to get hot enough to cause a simultaneous catastrophic failure within an hour. It certainly isn't going to cause molten steel underground for over 6 weeks after the event.

I'll make you a deal. If you watch this 1 hour documentary of nothing but experts in the field, then I will listen to the podcast you linked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ddz2m...

no argument here

when i said "There are a lot of architects and engineers and demolition experts that have said 9/11 was a controlled demolition."
that youtube video was part of what i was taking about i have seen the full thing it is a very good documentary. :)

you don't have to listen to the podcast if you don't want to. it does not prove the plane was the cause. its just a cool podcast.

I am un decided when it comes to the cause of 9/11 I really dont know im not trying to convince anyone it was or was not planes or explosives. just trying to say lets stop calling each other idiots for not buying into each others well thought out ideas. the experts in this case are not basing their opinions only on politics but on what they understand of the sience of their field.

---Want to discuss politics with Mormons? Please read:

"Latter Day Liberty"-Connor Boyack(forward by Ron Paul

Doctrine and Covenants sections 134 & 89

Watch Secretary of Agg Ezra Taft Benson's discourse on "The Proper Role of Government"

sharkhearted's picture

AT SOME POINT, THOUGH

At some point, you have to reconcile that is is not just a mystery crime scene of completely pulverised, destroyed buildings that "collapsed" sometimes at the speed of gravity.

At some point, Mike you have to check yourself that is is a CRIME SCENE where 3,000 INNOCENT PEOPLE and first responders died...and at least twice that number of our troops have been killed BECAUSE and in response of that day.

So, at some point, when dealing with the greatest mass murder event (and yes unsolved) in American history...you have to cut to the chase.

At some point, people become "idiots" because they refuse to examine the evidence or try to take the scientific method "high road" like Richard Gage and Steven Jones et al ad infinitum, have done.

I will check out your podcast as well. Take some time, in exchange to check out this documentary Loose Change: An American Coup. The prologue is brilliant...connecting the false flag burning of the Reichstag to the destruction of the twin towers....but I digress.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a58Zfu9kBb0

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

weakness

if steel were any better than wood in a fire we would not be having this conversation. Steel is incredibly weak in a fire. It is the basic understanding of materials that makes one say, ya that makes sense. There really is no taking the scientific high road. there is no way to prove if there were or were not nano thermite explosives. its like trying to do an autopsy without a body.

so why is there no body to examine? etc. ya it looks like a cover up. so if you wanna call it a crime scene the investigation was obstructed by the shipping of the building components to china and not allowing a single damn person to analyze it. that looks like a cover up.

This is what i meant by spatula vs hand in my comment below this. I agree with you. I may even think some idiots. but if i spew it out how is that going to affect them? is it gonna make them stop being idiots

I agree with almost everything you just said. but appearance is important and what you have said, (Even using my name Mike showing this as a personal thing and the time you use to identify me as a person is both threatening and endearing, because you used it in a negative context (to reproach me) it is threatening, if you used it to give a compliment before a chastisement it would be endearing)

so in short why what you have said is mostly truth your using a very condescending manner to try to "correct" my misguided thinking, and in human nature if such a road is taken it turns off your audience.

---Want to discuss politics with Mormons? Please read:

"Latter Day Liberty"-Connor Boyack(forward by Ron Paul

Doctrine and Covenants sections 134 & 89

Watch Secretary of Agg Ezra Taft Benson's discourse on "The Proper Role of Government"

sharkhearted's picture

The Nano-thermite hypothesis...has already been proven

Mike, you are an intelligent guy, I can tell. Blogs are so impersonal. I am sure in person we would do just fine. Cool podcast, by the way.

I am not trying to be condescending. Blogs are impersonal. You can't make eye contact. But the TRUTH is impersonal and often harsh...and can come across as condescending.

The more important thing is how we react to the TRUTH...because it will always set us free.

On 9-11, you need to school yourself on the evidence. One of the worlds top experts in nanotechnology has already dealt with this.

http://www.benthamscience.com/open/tocpj/articles/V002/7TOCP...

Pop some popcorn, put on your headphones, and watch here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyimz35UCiU

Also, your comparison of steel and wood is complete nonsense.

Steel can catch fire, yes.

However, it does not melt until about 2,750 F a full thousand degrees fahrenheit above any physically possible office fire.

It is not physically possible to melt steel in an office fire, without extreme incendiaries like thermite. Just can not happen.

In regards to the cover-up, which as you point out, from the whisking away of hundreds of thousands of tons to China to the fraudulent 10,000-page taxpayer-funded farce of a "report" by NIST, there is DEFINITE incontrovertible evidence of a cover up. I am forming an organization www.911crimes.org and the mission is to go after the cover-up.

As I said before, Mike, you are an intelligent guy, I can tell. Blogs are so impersonal. I am sure in person we would do just fine.

Just remember, we have a big problem. A HUGE problem. A giant elephant in the room. Its called 9-11.

That WTC7, which was NOT hit by a jet, "collapsed" sometimes at the speed of gravity, that is the biggest mystery and the DEFINING EVENT of the 21st Century.

Never before in human history has there been so much evidence...to the point of being incontrovertible...of an UNSOLVED mass murder crime like this...where the perpetrators and the cover-up bureaucrats...are still walking free! Un-f*cking-believable!!

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

No it hasn't

That whole thing is garbage.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64959841/9119ProgressReport022912_re...

Sorry guy, but it's been debunked. But you're busy being outraged, so you obviously don't have time to actually read and understand the papers you're posting.

Bentham's Open Chemical Journal is about as respected of a journal as Weekly World News is a newspaper. And even the Editor in Chief of THAT resigned over the paper being so bad.

Eric Hoffer

sharkhearted's picture

Your comparison to this being a bad journalist...

And TAKING ON ONE OF THE TOP NANOTECHNOLOGY EXPERTS IN THE WORLD...is pathetic.

Let me ask you, Eric. When WTC7 which was not hit by a jet, but "collapsed" at near the speed of gravity at times...does this not give you pause???

When you have 3000 innocent people and first responders that day who did not live to see another day, and then you have TWICE that number of our troops who were killed because of that day...and not to mention the hundreds of thousands of family members and those maimed and those killed in other countries contenting until TODAY...at WHAT cost, Eric....at WHAT cost do we kill and maim?

The events of 9-11 are the most enigmatic events ever and we are asked to just scrub that reality away and accept as our personal saviour the official government state-sponsered account of that day?

REALLY DUDE?? Can you sleep with yourself at night knowing that you are helping cover-up the greatest unsolved mass murder event in American history?

REALLY?

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

Sigh

Harrit failed to run an FTIR test to identify the components. Harrit has failed to release the chips for further study. Steven Jones sent chips to a dude in France who has since even claimed the chips are bunk, and THAT guy is a Truther. He believes that it can't be nanothermite, and speculates that while the red-grey chips aren't from the destruction process, that there was some sort of technology used to drop the towers, but he doesn't know what it is.

http://www.darksideofgravity.com/marseille_gb.pdf

"It's difficult to imagine a likely scenario for 10 micrometers width nanothermite layers at WTC, explain how Al nanoparticles remained reactives during several years or admit such
a heavy operation implying setting up charges of hundreds tons of nanothermite.
==> Two possible deductions:
1) Very likely: Red/red chips have nothing to do with nanothermite, American searchers were decepted and discredited or are themselves disinformating to protect the secrecy of the genuine destruction technology at the origine of red chips and up to thousand tons of
molten iron in the dust.
2) Less likely: Red chips are from nanothermite that were deactivated in all my samples"

So yeah, enjoy. Even the TRUTHER scientist says they have nothing do with nanothermite or he was given bad samples... by Steven Jones.

That's in addition to the paper I've posted. Otherwise, if you could please explain to the class why Kaolin, often used in primer paints, was part of the composite, and why there was no elemental aluminum in the sample (which is entirely necessary for thermite), I would really appreciate it.

I'm sorry man, but that's what is so beautiful about science. If you take the time to educate yourself, you can actually learn it. What Harrit does isn't magic, and he's not the only nano-technology guy out there by any means. Hell, I've done consulting for a company making producing nano-tech materials, it's really not all that magical.

"Let me ask you, Eric. When WTC7 which was not hit by a jet, but "collapsed" at near the speed of gravity at times...does this not give you pause???

What gives me pause is you failing to stay on track with the argument here. Vague hand waving and a reference to Harrit's credentials don't impress me WHEN THE STUDY IS PUBLISHED and I can look at it and clearly see the mistakes made. That's the glory of peer-review! You get critiqued, especially when you make boneheaded mistakes! You're going to tell me that scientists aren't wrong? They disagree and prove each other wrong all the time. Being a scientist sure as hell doesn't make you infallible.

When you have 3000 innocent people and first responders that day who did not live to see another day, and then you have TWICE that number of our troops who were killed because of that day...and not to mention the hundreds of thousands of family members and those maimed and those killed in other countries contenting until TODAY...at WHAT cost, Eric....at WHAT cost do we kill and maim?

Apparently your cost is that you want to remain forcibly ignorant of physics and materials science.

Look, it's terrible that it happened, hell, I'll even say the government may have paid them to do it, or tricked them, or whatever, but the bottom line is that the planes took out the towers and WTC7 was pure gravy for them.

The events of 9-11 are the most enigmatic events ever and we are asked to just scrub that reality away and accept as our personal saviour the official government state-sponsered account of that day?

Who asked this? Your mother? Some guy on the street? Seriously, I want an exact quote of this.

REALLY DUDE?? Can you sleep with yourself at night knowing that you are helping cover-up the greatest unsolved mass murder event in American history?

REALLY?

Yes, because what I'm doing is trying to shoot down obviously illogical theories from people who I think are well meaning and are going astray. Sorry buddy, but I don't let the BS fly. I care about the Liberty movement, and I believe 9/11 Truthers to be a sideshow that detracts from the horrid consequences of blowback due to our foreign policy.

So until you educate yourself regarding theories that have been proven obviously false, you're going to just keep spewing crap and patting yourselves on the back, being ignored while you howl about free fall speeds and magic thermite outside the window of the scientific community.

Sorry man, but that's the truth.

Eric Hoffer

sharkhearted's picture

"The whole thing is garbage."

Really? What are your qualifications?

And so any prescient scientist trying to take on another david-goliath behemoth...like any one who dares take on "global warming" is met with the same PATHETIC GROUPTHINK DISORDER nonsense

Oh, ok, be my guest...be my guest and go ahead and try to defy the laws of physics.

Eric, You would never ever EVER walk out into speeding traffic and expect the laws of physics to change to fit your your opinion of physics, right?

If you stepped out in front of a speeding car, there is not much hope, for at least some injury coming to you, perhaps even death.

That is the laws of physics. They are beyond alteration.

So, in that vein, what is "garbage"?

Perhaps your own deluded perception of the truth? I will give you that.

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

Calling my comparison Nonsense is Nonsense

Also, your comparison of steel and wood is complete nonsense.

Talk to any Structural Engineer or Architect and have them explain to you the difference between non fireproofed steel beam and a large lumber beam in a fire. Don't take my word for it.

If you want this to be an argument take it up with an engineer. Does anyone here who is an architect or Engineer want to comment on this, maybe Jefferson can talk to his Dad and see if he backs up what i am saying here.

---Want to discuss politics with Mormons? Please read:

"Latter Day Liberty"-Connor Boyack(forward by Ron Paul

Doctrine and Covenants sections 134 & 89

Watch Secretary of Agg Ezra Taft Benson's discourse on "The Proper Role of Government"

sharkhearted's picture

~

~

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

Calling ppl Ignorant makes them pissy

annoyed "On 9-11, you need to school yourself on the evidence. " I have i have seen everything you have pointed out and heard all the arguments before. that is why I am skeptical instead of believing the official story.

Saying I need to school myself is a personal attack and is condescending.

It's not quite as bad as comparing homosexual marriage to NAMBLA but the inferred insult is pretty obvious.

however that does not necessarily matter because i mostly agree with you.

---Want to discuss politics with Mormons? Please read:

"Latter Day Liberty"-Connor Boyack(forward by Ron Paul

Doctrine and Covenants sections 134 & 89

Watch Secretary of Agg Ezra Taft Benson's discourse on "The Proper Role of Government"

sharkhearted's picture

REALLY?

If you agree, then why are you having such a violent reaction to my remarks?

Those that react violently....to the truth....have their own demons that they have to deal with. I understand that. Been there, myself.

My response to you was as personal as possible...including I used your name with an affirming remark...about how I know that you are a good guy.

But then you threw me under the bus with other negativity and bad energy.

So....looking at your posts....ARE YOU a good guy???

I believe you are.

I just hate....HATE... this impersonal blog exchange. There is no eye to eye contact. No real dialogue.

That sucks. With this format we are a wall taking to another wall....forever talking past each other. Not good.

May communication improve in the future!

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

Melting?

Steel does not have to melt to be weak. look at the charts. I'm not trying to convince you. I have looked at the info you have posted b4. I'm not looking for an argument. but look at what happens to a non fire proofed building that catch fire. If buildings did not need to be fire proofed there would be many cool things you could do in design that you cannot do right now.

---Want to discuss politics with Mormons? Please read:

"Latter Day Liberty"-Connor Boyack(forward by Ron Paul

Doctrine and Covenants sections 134 & 89

Watch Secretary of Agg Ezra Taft Benson's discourse on "The Proper Role of Government"

sharkhearted's picture

3000 are dead....

3000 INNOCENT people have died.

And twice that number of our troops have been killed because of that day.

And of the 30,000 ground zero workers, a third of them are either sick, dying, or dead, because the Bush Adminstration (who I voted for shame on me) told the EPA to SHUT the FUCK up and not disclose that Ground Zero was basically UNINHABITABLE.

Yeah. You heard that right.

And so all of these petty arguments are pecadillos and PALE in comparison to the real reality of 9-11.

There is no fire hot enough in hell for the real instigators and cover-up artists for 9-11.

Disgusting. Revolting. Reprehensible.

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

Jefferson's picture

Well

put..
We're in agreement. There are still people that don't even realize that 3 buildings fell on that day. That doesn't make them "idiots." It just makes them ignorant.
But, if someone is presented with the science of the matter over and over again and they STILL don't see it...well...it's hard not to call them something.
I'm all for civil discourse. Please excuse my outburst with the ...ehem..fellow below. He's a well known agitator. Anyone that names themselves "sane Paul fan" is just looking for trouble.

Best of luck in your quest for truth.

In comment to you vs sane

In comment to you vs sane paul fan (um... ya name is kinda insulting in itself) I think an analogy in terms of alex jones vs Ron Paul can help anyone understand the importance of appearances

In general my opinion of Alex Jones.
if you want someone to eat a piece of cake you take out a spatula or pie server or pancake flipper or any serving implement to serve it to them on their plate. it you pick it up with your bare hand smashing it on their plate it would be the same cake. it would taste the same. but the presentation makes it look like garbage. Dr. Paul thank you for being a good Spatula. Alex stop using your hand.

---Want to discuss politics with Mormons? Please read:

"Latter Day Liberty"-Connor Boyack(forward by Ron Paul

Doctrine and Covenants sections 134 & 89

Watch Secretary of Agg Ezra Taft Benson's discourse on "The Proper Role of Government"

that is footage from

The movie die hard... if you look closely @ 1:15 you can see Bruce willis