6 votes

Am I wrong or just "politically incorrect"?

I decided to create this post in the hopes that a discussion, or better yet, a SOLUTION(S) would be found to something I find troubling and would like to see changed. I haven't seen "much" change in the last 40 years, yet the demographics certainly have. Only the latest reason for my bringing this up: http://www.dailypaul.com/280615/1000-plus-armed-protestors-r...

You know what really irks me to no end? Whenever I see one of these pro 2nd amendment rallies and I literally have to STRUGGLE to find a minority. It's like playing "find Waldo", -RIDICULOUS! It plays straight into the white stereotype redneck/hillbilly, hunter. WHY? According to this: http://www.city-data.com/races/races-Lansing-Michigan.html in 2009, Lansing was only 60% White. I'm pretty sure that number has dwindled since then. Where's the even representation for that? I guess affirmative action doesn't apply here(sarcasm)?

This is only 1 hour away from Detroit, yet more people couldn't be bothered to travel for this? Or better yet, hold one in Detroit? Oh right, will never happen. That's like asking to hold one in NYC. Never mind people, the 2nd amendment has NOTHING to do with your rights.

Am I wrong or just "politically incorrect" to POINT this out? A simple google image search of Occupy or Anti war-- never mind, I'll do it myself:
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-...

https://www.google.com/search?q=anti+war+protest&num=100&hl=...

Do I have a point? What can be done to change/educate? Last time I checked, ALL of these issues should concern ALL Americans.

Rant over - if you must, bring on the down votes, but I hope you can also state why.

EDITED to add the 2 pics on the City of Lansing homepage (a little more diverse)
http://www.lansingmi.gov/headlines/




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I tried to address/resolve this sort of issue here recently...

http://www.dailypaul.com/275565/how-many-black-people-dig-ro...

The point of the post, and more particularly the interviewing when I do it (still warming up out there, up here), is to identify how things like survey questions are asked with some sort of presupposition attached - be it your race, age, etc. Often who is asking affects the answer - imagine -

-Hello, I'm calling from the NAACP. Would you mind taking a survey?

-Hello, I'm calling from the Interplanetary White Brotherhood. And I need you to answer very carefully.

And, on a slightly different project, I'd like to interview the same person twice, once among friends then later, alone, and see if different responses are given...

why are pandas exempt from RICO statutes?

Ah, so you did.

I'll read some of it, but seeing that the comments are 3 pages long I'm not sure that I'll read all of it. Looks like an awesome post.

I've reached out to some black people that put out youtube videos, and they're all cool with me until I mention Ron Paul. Suddenly I get the angry response of he's an angry senile racist. Never mind the fact that they just agreed with 85% of what he stood for - namely the drug war and the disproportionately high incarceration of blacks.

I have a black friend that pulled the Ron Paul race card and after I set him straight, he stuck to disagreeing with his foreign policy.

I hope you get those interviews.

Edited to add that I read through the entire thread.

Definitely politically

Definitely politically incorrect.

As a starting point for anyone who thinks you are both, I'd suggest reading Fred Reed (fredoneverything.net). He touches on many related matters regularly. Very effectively, I might add.

Otherwise, I see the "empathy gap" here in terms of race as little more than an opportunity.

But... Don't get hung up on race, per se.

Just as many of us- as individuals, irrespective of race - were brought up in different traditions, and "discovered" the wonder of liberty and its applicability on myriad levels, so too is it with any "demographic."

It's never about the color of skin, but the underlying message, which resonates with different people for different reasons. Across the spectrum.

Remember that.

Use the info as you will. But do it individually.

Effectively.

Unless, of course, you think the absence of a certain demographic means they all think alike.

In which case the answer to your question would be: "You are both."

Feel free to read my other replies in the comments below

"Unless, of course, you think the absence of a certain demographic means they all think alike.
In which case the answer to your question would be: "You are both.""

Certainly not. In that case, I'd most likely call myself a racist.

"It's never about the color of skin, but the underlying message, which resonates with different people for different reasons. Across the spectrum."

Although I see your point, I have to respectfully disagree with that statement. Reason being, is that I grew up in NYC where whenever "an injustice" befell someone who was black, Al Sharpton would have hundreds of people marching in protest about "civil rights". When in reality, it had absolutely nothing to do with "civil rights", but specifically "BLACK civil rights". Now you might say there is no such thing, but I will point out that whenever a heinous hate crime would be committed by a black person(s) and the victim was white, you would not hear a peep out of him or the hundreds of "church goers" that marched. How very Christian of them. http://douglasernstblog.com/2012/09/26/sharptons-politics-na...

I see a lot of white arms in that ‘MILLION HOODIES’ MARCH for Trayvon Martin: http://soulexchangelive.blogspot.com/2012/03/million-hoodies...

Same goes for the Kimani Gray march: http://www.demotix.com/photo/1905768/tensions-flare-after-ki...

But again, I fail to see the demographics when the victim is white and the accused are a pack of black thugs. Is one life more important than the other?

No, I don't really want to get hung up on race, but I can't ignore that unfortunately it's still a problem. As a nation, we should have been well beyond that by now, but it's obviously not the case when an outstanding number of blacks vote for a president based solely on the color of their skin. The same can also be said about whites refusing to vote for a black person simply because they're black.

Thanks for your comments.

I visited Battle Creek about 15 yrs. ago and noticed

there was much more racism up north than you see in the south. The city was very segregated and the white people were AFRAID of blacks. They planned their routes for errands and such so they wouldn't have to drive through certain parts of town. I asked why it was like this and was told it was because of riots many years ago when Detroit burned. I'm not sure if it was when MLK was killed or what. There is racism down south, but it is in a more 'subdued' way. People get along and work together, but you better not marry my daughter kind of thing. Up there it was really tense. I don't know if it's changed since then, but it made an impression on me and I was young at the time.

LOL

See, my initial reaction was to laugh, where as someone else's reaction may be to say "that's not right" - be it the person "having" to avoid the area, or be it the person that feels avoided.

I think what you described has happened in most big cities, and from personal experience, blacks get a kick out of it and think it's hilarious. As they get older though, they start to realize that it's not as funny as they once thought and find it more offensive.

Can't say I blame the white people for avoiding certain areas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzXLVZdRbXQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRsf4yX13bA&NR=1&feature=end...

and on the lighter side of things:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtdeLwRh_BI

and this guy brings up a very valid point as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY18aTuelG0

I've had people people roll up their car windows and lock their doors as I tried asking them for directions. I've also had shop owners follow me in a suspicious manner in a store as well. This all had to do because of the way I looked(dressed/apparel). Didn't even have to do with race. See the similarities? So sometimes it could also be attributed to a reaction of the circumstances and preconceived notions.

I understand both sides. What I don't understand is how to bring them together. Maybe the answer lies in finding some common ground and going from there.

jrd3820's picture

Grew up in MI

Lived in the Central part of the state where there is much less crime than cities like Flint, Detroit, Saginaw and whatnot. As far as planning routes to avoid certain parts of certain cities... yeah it happens. I used to do that if I was in Flint, Detroit, or Saginaw because there are parts of certain cities where you are more likely to find yourself in a dangerous or unsafe situation and I figured I might as well avoid those parts of town if I could. I do not know if that is racism or just common sense. Also, keep in mind, Michigan itself could be split into Northern and Southern parts of the state because they are vastly different.

As far as the original post... how do we bring people together to realize that the problems this country is facing effect everyone, not one specific race? Well.... the very best answer I can come up with is to keep educating with the truth. Educate anyone who will listen or give you the time of day.

As far as this specific protest, I wonder who organized it and how word was spread. There might have been plenty of people of different races that would have loved to be there that day but maybe word just never got around to them.

Interesting point that I didn't consider

Maybe organizers should start reaching out and meet with local black leaders and churches, and go from there. If it's to be saved, there has to be unity in this country.

I worry about the exact same thing.

It's crazy, too, because one of my best / most trusted friends is a brother who was formerly in a gang (Like me, he is pushing 40--considered old in gang life. [He's been to countless funerals for gang war casualties, going back to his early teen years.]). He has said that "his people" are the most skeptical of government (understandable, per obvious history) and his closest brothers are practically conspiracy buffs. They also will NEVER give up their guns. And a lot of these folks think / know Obama is an Oreo cookie, soulless bankster puppet (because a REAL black person would never be elected / installed)!

Hey, not my words here... but it smells like truth.

(He has alluded to the necessity of making alliances with "country" types like me. LOL! We'll see what happens....)

What would the Founders do?

Do they trust

white man? Have they ever blamed their own for ANYTHING?

Actually, YES.

He has said of his white friends that they are typically more trustworthy, as they tend not to respond to conflict by overreacting / immediately resorting to violence. Also, that young black men are often their own worst enemies and are the cause of many problems in that "community" nowadays.

(Again, these are his views as someone who grew up under difficult circumstances. He is also an uncommonly sensitive, honest, and perceptive individual--much more so than I, I believe. Granted, I don't think his attitude is typical of very many in that community, but he does seem to surround himself with relatively like-minded people.)

What would the Founders do?

Great point.

Blacks have always had mistrust of government(can't blame them) - "The Man" has always tried to keep them down they say. The problem I think is that they tend to BLUR the lines when they talk about the government("the man"), which they see as rich fat old white men. So in essence they see white people as being guilty by association, as well as not really being able to identify with their "struggle" so to speak.

I grew up in black neighborhoods and most of my friends tended to be black, and it was just a given that it was an "us vs them" mentality for various reasons. If they had white friends, they'd be considered an "Uncle Tom" and accused of "selling out", similar to what white people had to endure in the 1950's and being called "negro lovers". Instead of taking responsibility, it was always much easier to complain about it, specially as kids when that's all you hear from their parents and uncles.

But there should come a time when you're old enough to realize the difference between right and wrong, and un-glue yourself from that herded mentality.

The sooner we all start seeing that it's not about racial, political party, sexual orientation, and/or religion, and realize that instead it's about "We The People", we'll all be better off.

The big problem I still see, and I'm hoping for ideas/solutions here, is that many minorities still have that "seeded" mentality/anger, and vote for a candidate based on the color of his skin.

I think a major first step, would be to have people from their own races reach out to them. At least in that way, part of their mistrust is gone, and their defenses somewhat lowered. If we're ever going to move "forward", we have to come together.

Who would you have them vote for? Romney?

If I were black, I'd pick the black guy. Why not, given the choices? Show me a society that is willing to pick non-media-certified candidates, and I'll start to have some hope.

I'd have them vote for the better person regardless of color

of skin. Romney sucks, but if there was any sort of integrity or self responsibility, they could have voted third party or written in.

Two words

Learned helplessness.

That's right, but there in lies the question of "WHY" it only

seems to concern minorities when it "ONLY" seems to affect them personally - for example the Civil Rights marches or the Million Man March.

How can we reach out to minorities, and make them realize that this affects them as well, and NOT have them "simply agree", but to get up off their asses like they do for other "demonstrations" that they show up for?

Are you kidding?

We're on our own, bro.

It sure seems that way

and realistically speaking, it IS that way. But the question remains; How can we change that? Don't forget that Ron Paul was also on his own back in the 70's, but little by little, he helped wake people up and change things. And I know that's comparing apples to oranges(there's a joke in there that I won't get in to), but things have gotten better. It's just that I feel like we should've crossed a mile by now, when in reality we've just managed to cross the road.

I feel your frustration.

Or you could work on just getting white people

to respect themselves, and not apologize for it. Then there'd be more than enough people to accomplish something, racial divisions or not.

White people have been conditioned by

government(public education) and tv/hollywood (programming) to feel guilt over things that happened long before most people now were even born. I attribute that to TPTB wanting to divide and then conquer - and TPTB have certainly succeeded only because we as a nation LET THEM.

What most blacks also fail to realize, or maybe "refuse to accept out of convenience", is that it was their own people/race/culture/(pick a word) that sold them out in to slavery. Many blacks want reparations for things that happened to their great-great-grandparents, and hence they feel "entitled" to them. Maybe reparations should be paid by those that actually sold them in the first place?

Many blacks fail to realize that "THIS" is the continued mentality that "keeps them down" - not "the man". If they were to take some self-responsibility, then they could get out of poverty and succeed. But it's SOOO much easier the other way, isn't it? Hmmmm.....work, or free money & benefits?

As for white people, I've noticed they've progressed quite a bit in terms of self-respect and guilt over race since the 70's and 80's. Unlike the blacks in my original post, they've also progressed, but just not at the same rate. And all these protests show that.

The point I've been trying to make is that there are also many blacks that do take self-responsibility and succeed. They can also motivate themselves for certain selective marches. How can we reach them? It's a process that would benefit all of us as a nation.

"Guilt" is certainly the word that has gotten traction, but...

...in my opinion, it's just good old-fashioned peer pressure.
Ironically, to me, the most costly divide comes from insisting we all get along.
Races are like music genres. Some you like. Some you don't.
All have some exceptions to your rule. This is real freedom of choice.

I have no problem with strangers making assumptions about me
based off my race. Isn't assumption a cornerstone of common sense?

Until there are enough hours in the day to get to know everyone satisfactorily,
we are all, for better or worse, stuck with the reputation of the groups we
are members of, voluntarily or involuntarily. It's up to the individuals within a group
to define by their actions how that group will be perceived by others. That's taking personal responsibility.

Sorry. Deviated a bit. Just thought I'd share what you're not supposed to say.

Don't apologize for telling the truth and

sharing VERY VALID points. If anyone gets offended, they need to look a little deeper as to why they are "letting themselves" get offended. Maybe they have a problem with the truth and can't handle it. Definitely on personal responsibility!

I don't know

I feel helpless.

Here, though, is something to keep in mind: whatever it ends up being, it had better also be entertaining.

Add tea parties and various political meetups to that list.

It has to do with that "responsibility" thing.

There. Now I am the politically incorrect one.