10 votes

What do we agree on?

I have noticed the back and forth on many issues here on DP dealing with many of the deeper and more decisive issues that people here take a position on. I had an idea while reading Nystrom's post addressing these discussions in his "Everyone sees what they want to see"

I thought maybe it would be a good idea to attempt to find out what we do agree on. The idea here is this:

I, and hopefully you, will attempt to state seemingly simple self-evident "truth" that is singular in its scope in the comment section to find out what we do agree on.

Each top level comment will have the singular statement of "truth" and then votes apply as agree or not. I ask that those who do not agree with the statement please provide counter logic and reason that demonstrates the invalidity of the statement of "truth" in the response section of the comment . Please keep the top level comment singular and fundamental in nature so that the debate responses can be focused where necessary. This exercise should enable us to easily see what we do agree on.

I thought this might be a good exercise for all us to see what we do agree on and help refine our own understanding of what is true. It might also help reveal how many voting trolls are roaming the cyberstreets of DP by seeing obvious self-evident truth down voted without response.

I started the list below not to dominate the debate but as a means to give examples of the simplicity and singular scope and fundamental "truths". With proper participation we might be able to find modern day maxims of our movement that are so fundamental and commonly true that no one disagrees. Can this be done? Lets find out.

Hopefully this will help us see the fundamental truths that really matter to all of us in our quest to realize a just and happy America...




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Cyril's picture

Evidently on this end.

Evidently on this end.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Our Constitution is the

Our Constitution is the supreme law of the land.

*****The Federal Reserve is neither.*****

Cyril's picture

That's an interesting question.

That's an interesting question. Beyond the obvious "liberty, peace, prosperity", it's not so easy to find much more specific for FREE people to agree on, all encompassingly.

Duh, by the very nature of freedom and how free minds work.

But there's one thing I can think of, tangible, that you can actually touch (if printed), that many of us are likely to agree on and cherish as much as I do (I hope):

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/billofrights

And I like this idea of having AT LEAST ONE thing simple, concrete, powerful, tangible that we can use/point to, in order to gather people around it, again, to re-enable the righteous law, that is, justice... one day, hopefully.

And this is, in my eyes, a VERY, VERY, VERY positive and powerful thing you have, there, People.

I will never be able to overstate how much I value it - for its intrinsic value of reason and wisdom - if only the People would really COMMIT TO IT - FOR THEIR OWN SAKE - the most literally and the most definitely (over time).

My .02.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Michael Nystrom's picture

The welfare / warfare state is bankrupting the country

.

All art is only done by the individual. The individual is all you ever have, and all schools only serve to classify their members as failures. E.H.

multiplied by lack of leadership

And compounded by the status quo.

People can say what they want about our movement. It will be defined by our actions and leadership. Our movement is cracking.

I'm with Rand.

'Peace is a powerful message.' Ron Paul

That there should be less

That there should be less government.

There are many forms of

There are many forms of Libertarians who will never agree on most things accept that we are all free to disagree, live and let live.

Case in point:

Brazillian Butt Workout seems to be working for my wife, however no matter how often I watch it, I never seem to get in better shape, save for my right arm which is a stream-line machine.

lmao.

lmao.

Our rights (Life, Liberty, etc.) are transcendent...

...not from government.

The alleged disagreements...

are an illusion. The enumerated powers doctrine contained in the Constitution and unalienable rights protected by the Bill of Rights, are the glue that binds libertarians together. The illusion of disagreement at DP is caused by an infestation of anarchists who hide behind Ron Paul while trying to destroy Constitutional government. Check out my post titled "Is Ron Paul an anarchist? I don't think so but...". You can find a link to it by clicking on "Rand Paul: One person can make a difference", below.

http://www.dailypaul.com/277342 (Rand Paul: One person can make a difference)
http://www.StandUpForYourRights.me/?p=1264 (Fast and Furious hearing)

Some people have called me an anarchist

because of my understand of how our laws work. However I am not anarchist at all but it may seem that way to many when I state things like 'Codes and Statutes do not apply to the People'.

Many people do not understand my point here because it takes some time and detail in logic to show one where I am coming from. In fact I believe that what we have right now in the US is anarchy because the "government" literally is not seated right now. I know how off the wall this may sound but I have taken it so far as to seek answers in our "courthouses". Every judge, clerk, commissioner I have asked the question "is this a Court of Law" will not answer! I have asked literally hundreds of bureaucrats in "courts", "law enforcement" and other departments "Are you operating under the capacity of your Constitutional oath?" Out of hundreds asked I have only found 1 who answered yes.

If no one is operating under the Constitution and "courts" are not a Court of Law then the only conclusion I can come to is that we now have anarchy.

As far the Bill of Rights and Constitution it seems that many see these things as ideals. I cannot see it that way because I am so logical in my thought process that I must have logical congruency in law for anything to valid. The only thing I see in the Constitution is a binding contract that is enforceable under common law. If we don't enforce that contract through common law actions then the contract is nothing more than an artistic old piece of paper with patterned ink on page.

I am ready to enforce the contract but in order for this to be enforced it requires juries aware in law. If the Liberty minded folks who so revere the Constitution do not even comprehend that it is a contract then how can it ever be enforced. If it can't be enforced then it does not exist in law. If the Constitution does not exist in law then America literally has no Government and therefore we now have anarchy with a side of politics. Truly a nation of men not of laws.

It seems to me that those who want to play politics and not actually enforce the law are the anarchists which is almost everyone. I know all of this may sound weird but if my knowledge took me to the point of having to go on the journey and even into the courts to get the question answered as to whether the Government actually exists and I get no answers then what does this say about the REAL reality. Is it going to matter if we win the political process if every single bureaucrat in America is not operating under the Constitution?

Honestly with the research I've done I don't think it is possible for us to win the Presidency in political presidency no matter how many supporters we have. TPTB do not play this way and they will just simply lie and cheat. Even if we had 98% of the entire nation supporting our candidate and they just lie and cheat then it will still come down to courts and if the courts are corrupted and rule in their favor then what? It will still take some form of confrontation with TPTB on some grand scale. They will not acquiesce because that is not part of their plan.

So I just don't see anyway to return to the rule of law without enforcing on a wide scale and the only way I see to do it is through common law with Constitutional contract. This means accusers, juries courts NOT politics.

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

RE: Law

Judge Napalitano recently stated if government derives all of its power from the people and if the people can't use drones then what authority does the government have to use drones. The same exact principle applies to law. If no man has dominion over another man then by what authority does law exercise any power over men?

Fascinating.

Such a deep analysis, I've never thought that far into it before. I totally agree with your perspective.

Agreed.

Check out the sovereign wannabe's talking point: "All taxation is tyranny."

Anarchists serve their own purpose and it has NOTHING to do with "restoring Constitutional government to the United States of America"

No.7's picture

We all agree that Ron Paul is awesome

nice post. bump

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson

Taxes are Tyranny

"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." - Thomas Jefferson

Life is a sexually transmitted disease with a 100% fatality rate.
Don't Give me Liberty, I'll get up and get it myself!

Requiring me to have papers to move around is tyrannical

.

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

I upvoted because it is

However, for those that believe in splitting up land and owning it, would you then expect tyranny when moving about on land you do not own?

In my view,

public land, roads, buildings, etc., should be free of this (and all) tyranny. Private property should be subject to the owner's prerogative. Do no harm is the law.

but pubic land is owned by the government

Which is an entity just as a corporation. So the government can set it own rules as well on its own land. Any use can be viewed as harmful, so why shouldn't a government owner not have the same "owners prerogative" as any other entity?

deacon's picture

that public land

is the people's,the gov cannot own anything by itself
we are the gov,without the people,there is no gov
so therefor we own it while on earth(you can't it with you)
all land bought by any gov was bought with stolen money.no gov creates
anything,they steal from the people
all of them monuments to dead tyrants were built by the people
for the people,they were built with tax money,and the workers paid with the same. taxes come from the people
also, you do not have the same rights on your property as say K-mart
has
deacon

setting your expectations to high,can cause depression

we the people are the governement

and we the people can get together and make decisions like build all those monuments as you already pointed out. But what I am saying is we the people is not everyone in the world...so visitors are not we the people. So, consequently public land that is government run is not common land for everyone (all people in the world) to move about and use how they want. So while having to show papers to move about IS indeed tyranny, it is "we the people" that has to make that decision (whether to be tyrannical). Unfortunately, I don't think it is inherent once we have divided up all the land into ownership. On the other hand, the land really can't be owned because it by nature it belongs to all things. In other words, god didn't give that particular piece of land to you in particular!

deacon's picture

right i get that

even can agree with it
as far as ownership,you can't take it with you :)
and thanks for the comment back
deacon

setting your expectations to high,can cause depression

Justice is the process of finding truth

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The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

Lying is the intent of hiding truth

.

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

Domestic tranquility

Domestic tranquility can only be achieved by not disturbing the peace of others

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

Violence is the act of intentionally physically injuring another

.

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

A Monopoly of Justice is a threat to individual security

.

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

Rights are my own natural abilities

.

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

Tyrrany is a result

Tyranny is a result of a man or woman performing acts with the realization that they will not be held accountable for those acts

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...