10 votes

What do we agree on?

I have noticed the back and forth on many issues here on DP dealing with many of the deeper and more decisive issues that people here take a position on. I had an idea while reading Nystrom's post addressing these discussions in his "Everyone sees what they want to see"

I thought maybe it would be a good idea to attempt to find out what we do agree on. The idea here is this:

I, and hopefully you, will attempt to state seemingly simple self-evident "truth" that is singular in its scope in the comment section to find out what we do agree on.

Each top level comment will have the singular statement of "truth" and then votes apply as agree or not. I ask that those who do not agree with the statement please provide counter logic and reason that demonstrates the invalidity of the statement of "truth" in the response section of the comment . Please keep the top level comment singular and fundamental in nature so that the debate responses can be focused where necessary. This exercise should enable us to easily see what we do agree on.

I thought this might be a good exercise for all us to see what we do agree on and help refine our own understanding of what is true. It might also help reveal how many voting trolls are roaming the cyberstreets of DP by seeing obvious self-evident truth down voted without response.

I started the list below not to dominate the debate but as a means to give examples of the simplicity and singular scope and fundamental "truths". With proper participation we might be able to find modern day maxims of our movement that are so fundamental and commonly true that no one disagrees. Can this be done? Lets find out.

Hopefully this will help us see the fundamental truths that really matter to all of us in our quest to realize a just and happy America...



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My time is my liberty

.

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

Stealing from someone harms them

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The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

Involuntary taxation is stealing

.

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

Cyril's picture

Not challenging the "... is..." but...

Not challenging the "... is..." but, just remarking...

... doesn't it feel like "involuntary taxation" would be a tautology?

;)

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

One is always innocent if they have not harmed another

.

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

A criminal act requires mens rea

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The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

I did not down vote you but...

I do have issue with this statement. Reckless behavior does not require that you consider an act to be reckless. Failure to take all precautions to ensure that you are not harming/going to harm others is reckless no matter what your intentions are and you don't just get to say "oops" when reckless behavior harms others.

I guess I'm not alone

Who defines

what is considered to be "all precautions" and thereby reckless behavior? Your statement makes sense in black and white but not so obvious across the spectrum that exists in the material realm.

Well, Here are a couple...

examples of what I am saying. Maybe you could give me a couple examples of what you are saying so that I may understand your position better.

If you are hunting and a stray bullet misses its target and kills my wife in our bed a mile away, you are responsible for recklessly killing my wife by pointing your gun toward my house and pulling the trigger. It does not matter that your intention was to hit your target or even that you didn't see my house when you shot. You should have known the area that you were hunting and took the precautions necesary to ensure that you were not putting others at risk.

I am against DUI laws but I do believe that it is a reckless act and that deterence comes from punishing those that cause harm through this reckless act. 99.999% of people that drive impaired, do not intend to harm anyone when they set of on their journey. I would even go as far as to say that even if you are not impaired, if you are driving at a speed that does not allow you ample time to stop when my kid runs out in the road, you are responsible for recklessly harming my kid.

I don't believe in victimless crimes but these crimes act as a deterence to prevent crimes where victims are created. If you remove victimless crimes but do not punish people that create victims through their reckless act, then there is no deterence and therefore anarchy.

I guess I'm not alone

I see a disagreement here

-1 vote while writing this.

I was really hoping to get feedback on this post where people disagree. My intent is not categorize disagreements but my sincere intent is to find places where superior logic trumps my own comprehension of law and nature. I hope people are willing to post disagreements here even if they are under a dummy account.

From my study of law I cannot find any place in real law where mens rea is not required for a criminal act. This seems like a bedrock foundation from my understanding and if someone has counter points of logic I am thirsty and open to here another logical conclusion. Not just case law but WHY this is not correct.

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

Any lawful action

Any lawful action of justice requires allegations of actual harm

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

Responsibility

Each man or woman is always responsible and liable for his or her self initiated actions

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

No entity can lawfully force me into contract

.

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

Disturbing my peace

Disturbing my peace obstructs my pursuit of happiness

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...