44 votes

That's not how to end the NWO, THIS is.

(Disclaimer: I'm personally working on some of these but am not fundraising here.)

The Common Problem
I do not see it as a possible solution one bit to awaken the masses and call for them to rally behind any solution. The only solutions that will work are the ones which can be implemented by much smaller groups. If around 10% or less could make a significant change in one area by themselves, then that has a shot at both it's goals and waking up more people. However, if we rely on big strategies that take 51% or 80% or whatever, we are doomed.

Most solutions generally focus on telling people to compromise something to do the right thing and the result will be bliss. Maybe ignorant bliss. There's no way simply telling people to do the right thing will work. As I detailed out in another comment, in all those battles, we can gain all we want, but the other side is gaining upwards of 7,000 people each day. Every day. (This is the attrition number of our population entering and leaving each stage of life.)

The other aspect is that people will not compromise until they see the whites of their captor's eyes behind the sights of a rifle. They currently live in a world where they KNOW that all things have been tried before, with no success, so why try. If you want them to do the right thing, you must find a way to give them incentives that appeal to them right now. Ask yourselves how to get lots of people to do a specific change while competing with the existing materialist market that they live in.

For example... Take the GMO / HFCS / Pharma / Chemtrail / Fluoride / Food Shortage front. We know the solution is to get people to eat locally grown, organic foods. We know this leads to locally grown meats and dairy. We know that by doing this they not only increase their own health and self sufficiency but it decreases TPTB power in this industry. If only there was a way to make gardening viral?

If this is the scenario, which I believe it is, then why not create a very attractive solution that has so much appeal it just might go viral? Why not produce a solution which removes the big hassles and regulations of gardening and replaces it with saving enough money to excite people. Why not sell them a fully automated garden in a box?

They could simply plug it in, add seeds and return to harvest foods like vegetables and fish. We could even include solar to plug it in to.

It's hard to argue that if we could provide such a magic box at a low price that people wouldn't be falling over each other to get one. At first, only the hard-core preppers and activist types would be onboard. After they mentioned how much money they were saving and how many benefits they now had to their neighbors, more people would be buying one. As this progresses, hopefully at some exponential rate, the related industries will lose much of their control.

But we're still stuck with producing such a box. Well, that's where there's good news. In every area that you can find a set of problems, there has been created such a solution. I've tracked these exact type of solutions now for over 2 years and I cannot find one problem that hasn't already been solved. More on them later.

So why aren't they taking off? Because solutions like this get, not support from investors, they get manipulated towards going bankrupt. Time after time, these innovators, inventors and entrepreneurs get involved with some investor that takes control of their business and "helps to commercialize" it. This never ends well for someone trying to provide a comprehensive solution at a low cost to out-compete an entire industry. Think of it like the cold fusion black box looking for funding from a bank that holds stock in oil. It's not only not going to happen. It's going to get co-opted into oblivion.

Our job, now is to get these people the support and funding they need to get on their feet. Most often, it isn't even that much. We just have to remember that they are producing these solutions on their own dime while trying to survive the same family struggles that the rest are wrestling with.

Let's briefly investigate some of the problems and the solutions trying to make it to market. I'm doing the first two, so I'll start there to give an idea of why progress is stagnant with them and others' technologies.

Self Contained Aquaponics In A Box
The food solution I mentioned above is pretty easy. I have not 'found' a perfect solution out there so I was forced to create my own. As I see it, the solution is a grow wheel that rotates plants through vertical space, above a fish tank with a compost bin attached and all runs automated, from purified water that's generated from the air, lit by efficient LED grow lights, powered by solar and that has a fully closed life-cycle. It is not ready for prime time, but it certainly is compact, self sufficient, out of the chemtrail/GMO air (it's designed for indoors) and works nicely. I've got most of that working (rebuilding it again now) but it still needs some external fish food. Maybe chickens or more duckweed should be added but that would take much more space than the 6 foot cube I designed it for. Even the hassles of aquaponics are planned to be solved because I'm building a controller that monitors pH, nitrates/nitrites, ammonia, EC, temp and controls temp, water flow, lighting, and some mineral balancing. Using an Arduino processor, this should be easy but it's still out of my current budget.

Solar Heat Powered Home Energy
About 12 years ago, I designed my first new Stirling engine that breaks the barriers of today's existing engines. Now I have 3 well proven versions that are capable of numerous configurations.

They can be powered from stored heat that's concentrated from the sun or created some other way. They generate either shaft power or direct electricity. And they waste some heat in a controlled area where it can be re-used for heating things like water, homes and heat-driven air conditioners.

If used on a house, I have two mirror configurations that fit well with different home designs. One is a roof array (low profile and nice looking) and the other is a 15' satellite style dish from the 80's. These both have heat storage that can be sized up for many day's worth of energy as well as being topped off by any auxiliary burner.

If used in a car, a suitable fuel can be burned in a very efficient, controlled manner for high density electricity production. This means that you could easily replace a V8 engine and transmission with a Stirling generator, a thermal buffer and an electric motor. This would yield quite a fuel savings, as well as offering multi-fueling capability.

If used on a massive scale in the ocean, it could generate vast amounts of power for around 10% of current costs and provide tons of free waste byproducts of salt and desalinated steam. Steam in this continuous quantity could be piped on-shore and even inland for hundreds of miles before it condensed, providing coastal fresh water that could alleviate them suing inland states for their river water.

I have all the principles proven and most of the parts made. I have very crude looking versions that worked but had this or that bug. What I don't have is a full working model that shows the entire process so people can see it. I've partnered with two different companies for funding and we're making progress but the numbers are now topping 8, 9 and 10 digits. Kind of makes it hard to keep it a low cost solution. :(

Hydrogen Storage
This is the single key to powering cars from a cheap and clean renewable source. It should not be thought of as a source but more like a battery. If you make the hydrogen in your garage from solar (under a thousand dollars), you get half that power available in your car. People think this is bad efficiency but they do not realize that no fossil fuel is higher than about 15% total efficiency when the entire cycle is considered. Some are as low as 3%. The problem is in storing enough energy in a light, small and cheap system.

This is where the guys at www.switch2hydrogen.com have solved our problems. They created a hydride powder that absorbs (like a sponge) hydrogen in what I describe as a condensed state. Placed inside a scuba sized tank, it can hold over 120 miles range for a traditional car and does it under no pressure. They have to induce a little heat to get the H2 to boil out, so it's inherently safe under all accident scenarios. It takes the maximum from 4 such tanks working in parallel to fuel a V8 so there's no danger of any buildup in the system. It is cheap and can be mass produced but requires an element that China has a monopoly over. Recent geo-political events have effectively shut down this progress. I can't help but think that with the right support, this could be brought to market rather fast. Their initial price (pre-politics) was $10k to retrofit an existing car and that even included the solar panels and garage tanks.

Mass (commuting) Transit
There are two very viable solutions available here.

First is www.skytran.net where they have designed a rail that can be hung on power poles to provide individual maglev access to the neighborhood level. This solves the last mile problem (getting to a train station) while providing extremely cheap transportation with no up-front costs to the end user. The system is fully automated, silent, fast and can even be directed through larger buildings such as factories, stadiums, malls and schools. It needs less maintenance than roads do and are cheaper than a two lane road. The beauty of this can be seen in so many areas but to the end user, the biggest one has to be that when you include all stages of the trip (driving, parking, tickets, boarding a plane/train, traffic), this is the fastest way to travel any trip of less than 400 miles.

Unfortunately, the funding game (and the railroad monopoly) has driven them to other countries so unless we step up, we won't see this one for another decade.

Second, with the above 'last hundred mile' solution available, we could pair that with ET3's Evacuated Tube Transport system at http://www.et3.com/ to extend those pod-cars' range internationally. This would be pretty simple to do from the technical standpoint and would increase the 200-250 mph speed limit of the pods to over 4,000 mph for long trips.

Currently, there have been no proposals to marry these two yet but I feel it's inevitable.

Money And Banking
Many here already know of the solutions I'm going to promote here so I'll just list them. When viewed as a group, it's easy to see them displacing entire financial industries from banks to investing to loans and even to insurance.
Dwolla is a payment processor like VISA which charges 25 cents.
Bitcoin is an alternative, anonymous, encrypted digital currency.
Kickstarter and Indiegogo are donation, pre-sales and support sites.
Kiva and Prosper are micro-loan sites, operating peer-to-peer.

There are too many other partial solutions to mention that each fill in some missing piece of this pie. Some may survive and some may not, but the overall direction is clear. Money is rapidly losing it's monopoly over our everyday lives. I'm still waiting for the solutions to crop up that kill's it's monopoly over our economy but I think breaking into the market of worker paychecks would be the death knell.

Communication, Education, Information
The internet has ushered in so many alternatives in these areas that I doubt anyone exists that can give a comprehensive overview. Between sites like Khan Academy and universities offering their courses online for free... between alternative media, petitions and collaborative groups... between the encrypted TOR network and the various mesh internet initiatives... these movements have now transformed into non-controllable forces of their own. There is now no way to shut down the entire internet because it has morphed into something that can survive over Ethernet, fiber, phone backbones, cell phone signals, ham radio, telephone line BBS and if need be, even physically transported flash drives.

Election Accountability
I posted on a solution to this a while back. A solution I believe in is to get one 'change' made in the federal election reporting process. I'm not sure if it's best to push for an amendment or a law or just a regulation change but surely, one of those could be possible with enough public support.

The change would simply be to have the FEC require a standardized format for states to report their results in. By mandating this to be a one-way-hashed code that's publicly available, it means that there are no more transparency issues. Since these codes would not allow personally identifying info to be traced backward to any individual, the entire process would be opened up. It would be fully secure to even allow private entities 'calculate' your vote to be sent to the FEC. This makes it attractive to struggling municipalities because the entire process can be voluntary. People could instantly verify their code was accepted at every level from county and town to state to federal.

Since it does not relate to how states decide to structure their voting, it has no Constitutional roadblocks. It is merely an accounting path that runs parallel to their existing ones. However, the effective result is that the people gain the power to see all errors (and corruption) in the system instantly. You can find the details at: http://www.dailypaul.com/252505/support-the-rules-change-and...

Many more to come...
There are many more solutions in many other areas. A few industries which will soon not be a problem are clean water, desertification, deforestation, landfill and sewage waste, marine depletion, cancer / autism, over population and many (not all!!!) rare element shortages. I could list them for another hour but you get the idea. To keep up with them has become virtually impossible. What this means is that there are no longer technical problems but activation problems.

What all these solutions have in common is a few very specific factors. As I mentioned above, they are all cheaper and provide more benefits to the end user. This makes them attractive on an emotional (read that as viral-capable) level. But the other attractions they have should not be overlooked. They each have a sound business model to remain in the black. That means they are not dependent on debt financing, the perpetual growth model or external control. They each are distributed (sans the implied mass transit pun) meaning they can start anywhere and everywhere at once making them hard to control. Most importantly, they each can be started by a small group that's awake and offered to the public on their 'materialistic' terms without waking them all up first.

This is the critical point in all this. Since it's impossible to wake up enough people to get them to make large changes, we should be gathering the small groups it takes to bring these type of solutions to market. Then they can be adopted by the masses simply because of a personally beneficial decision. That's how you make an entire society change quickly. And that's how to leverage a few small groups of active, aware people to win the war with the NWO.

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Bump.I'm already getting my

Bump.

I'm already getting my feet wet in horticulture and aquaponics. Coming a long nicely.

A thought on the energy section. If anyone could ever figure out how to give out the free magnetic energy blueprints/plans without being disappeared by the government that'd be great too LOL.

It's out there, but it's just been suppressed so well.

Also, would like to add that I agree with you 100% that it has to start on a small scale. I like the idea of these community gardens, but what I really see as the next step is small colonies where a bunch of people put money together and buy up a ton of acres and set up their own communities. If you get enough people doing that things would change quickly. I've seen a few ads online already like that. It'd be great to have them everywhere. Like a free state project type of thing, but without trying to be involved with the local government.

Bump!

...!

Keep your eye on the prize! - Ending legal tender laws in order for the Federal Reserve System to self-destruct is of the upmost importance.
What in the World are They Spraying https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf0khstYDLA
http://geoengineeringwatch.org

Thnx animusofliberty

People should know that we are making great progress on most everything listed above, and many other things. It's all happening much faster than we had hoped.

That is good to hear friend...

...BEING the change we want to see is very important, and I like these ideas. This post and other things recently have made me want to do certain things myself, and start to pondering certain ideas me and my father have come up with during random discussions/talks.

I imagine a time where ideas like this can truly revolutionize the world we live in. Creating these things and expanding our creativity in order to better humanity, is truly a wise approach.

I wish you the best in your adventures.

You are on the right track my friend. And have given me some thinking and optimism for myself. Thank You. :)

Now let's come together and create what we see in our minds! We have been given the opportunity! :D

Keep your eye on the prize! - Ending legal tender laws in order for the Federal Reserve System to self-destruct is of the upmost importance.
What in the World are They Spraying https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf0khstYDLA
http://geoengineeringwatch.org

Cyril's picture

Re- BUMP.

Re- BUMP.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

People are looking for this

The word about AP is getting out, and now I get calls from random strangers looking for an easy system to get them going.

Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.

Cyril's picture

Re- BUMP

Re- BUMP.

We also need a website where firm defenders of free markets can gauge, assess, share, debate, vote upon ideas, resources, assets, products, and businesses, and connect to do more business with each other, instead of feeding the beasts of Big Agra, Big Pharma, Big Oil, and Big Brother.

And doing such liberty business thru whichever medium of exchange they see fit.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

great idea

Have you seen the website etsy.com? I forget who, but someone here turned me on to it. It is like "ebay" only lot more "free market" and like craigslist except not just local products.
When tamckissick is ready to take this product to market, a website like etsy might be the closest thing to "free market" available.

Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.

Sounds great.

We could call it "Cyril's List". Just like we have Craig's List and Angie's List, this would give people a view on everything really important in a specific product. I can't wait to see fully organic food restaurants start getting more business than fast food! A great day, indeed.

fishy's an idiot bump

I try, but I have my blind spots and ego trips, too. I did not look at this post with an open heart or mind, and I am an idiot for that.
There are really good concepts here, and as we get our "new and improved" system up and running, I hope the OP will let me pick his brain.

Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.

Cyril's picture

Re- BUMP.

Re- BUMP.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

First, all we need is 10% of

First, all we need is 10% of people for it to catch on; so says a study that once ~10% of a population has the same idea, it has reached critical mass and will start spreading. We saw this with Ron Paul and his ideas.

Regarding ideas, marketing, marketing, marketing. It doesnt matter what it is, if you cant properly market it and show people, it wont work. Yes, investors like to come in and say what will be done, but marketing things properly takes care of some of this because you are more likely to find more investors that arnt trying to dictate everything that takes place. I know there have been many successful projects by people where investors did not try to take over things.

"Self Contained Aquaponics In A Box"
This is an interesting idea. First off, there needs to be an outdoor version. Converting sunlight to electrical energy then back to light adds alot of cost(due to solar panels depending on the size of course) to something that isnt needed in more temperate areas. Just what is your budget here? It doesnt seem like it should be that much out of anyones budget. The obvious question I have is if its out of your budget, how will it be within any average person budget?

"Solar Heat Powered Home Energy"
Now here is where I have some experience. I know of a system that was created by a Sir Charles Shultz. Used an arrangement of fresnel lens to heat up a pipe with water inside. He had a full scale version built and during testing, it wasnt in the sun but a few minutes before they blew a valve due to steam pressure.(the video is on youtube somewhere) I am not sure what the current status is on his project though as its been a while since I last heard from him. Where yours uses mirrors, his used lens to focus the sun which I find to be simpler in nature than mirrors. I think it might just come down to preference though because thye both do the same thing mostly.

"Hydrogen Storage"
That they rely on rare earth metals is a problem. These are called rare Earth for a reason and I wouldnt rely on this for any long term solution. Considering the number of other industries which use these metals, this idea isnt as great as it seems. The one thing though is that hydrogen production is inefficient. You would practically need a system for every house and hope the people dont drive alot. Yes, storage has been a problem, but production on a mass scale still is too, at least massive enough for use by millions of vehicles.

"Mass (commuting) Transit"
There are plenty of mass transit solutions and I wont comment much on it. However, the evacuated tube technology I have seen something of before. Would be great for quick long distance travel.

"Election Accountability"
I posted something on this on the dailypaul somewhere. Needless to say, I think everyone here can agree the process needs fixing.

To climb the mountain, you must believe you can.

Activate that 10%

My personal opinion is that marketing is essentially pushing crap on people that didn't ask for it. I fully understand how it can be used but I'm going for more of a pull campaign rather than push based one. I think that'll be stronger and waste less expense (passed on to the customer), which will cut costs a bit more.

Some of the problems the AP system was designed around were as follows:

First was to eliminate the boom/bust of growing in one season and canning or storing for the other seasons. With an indoor system producing all year long, the size can be much smaller to just provide each week what is needed that week. This also eliminates the tedius cycle of 'getting going' at the start of the growing season.

This is also clear when you consider that plants do like more light than just one 'sun'. If you double their light, they almost double their growth rate. For some people, this can reach almost triple.

I also wanted to eliminate the problems of selling to others. This is the method by which the government will end up shutting down gardens. You'll always be able to grow for self, but they will say they can regulate you when you sell (see the organic egg and raw milk news).

Another reason is to eliminate the chance of GMO cross pollination. Self explanatory.

Home power: You're correct that concentrated sunlight doesn't have to just be the visible portion. Even through cloud cover, you can get higher temps. While freznel lenses do work, they suffer from the cosine effect worse than mirrors and they also reduce the transmitted lights a little more than a single-side mirror. Basically, mirrors can more easily track the sun and they only waste 4-7% while freznel lenses lose around 12%. By going this way, the Stirling engine is the most efficient way to generate electricity. The trick is just to find a good one. In this hunt, I was forced to re-design one for just this purpose.

Hydrogen storage: The rare earth minerals needed for this is not so rare as many others. It is just only available in China which causes political issues. However, it is never consumed so diverting some of it's existing uses to hydrides yields benefits forever instead of wasting it like is done now.

Hydrogen production may not be more than 75% efficient but this dismisses the waste in comparable chains. Using renewables to crack it plus a fuel cell car can be 60% efficient overall while the efficiency of any use (mobile or home use) never tops 12%. Ever.

Mass transit: Couple the ET3 with skytran.net and you'll find that all the negatives go away plus there are numerous benefits that cars will never offer. All for as low as 1/10th the cost.

Great comment. Thnx.

You may find these two

You may find these two threads interesting:
Regeneration
http://keithlaney.net/SMF/index.php?topic=14387.0

Advanced Technology
http://keithlaney.net/SMF/index.php?topic=14585.0

To climb the mountain, you must believe you can.

Lots of very interesting stuff there

It's just so sad that all the best innovations are being developed with nothing more than killing people in mind. :(

Hopefully, we can reverse that trend before too much longer.

Cyril's picture

Re- BUMP. For traction.

Re- BUMP. For traction.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Cyril's picture

I would love a plug-n-play aquaponics solution

I would love a plug-n-play aquaponics solution fitting in less than half a dozen cube meters ( sorry, more familiar with S.I. here :/ )

I'd have already bought it, mind you, even should that require to get rid of a flat screen. Or two. Or three. Or four. Between that and an entertainment center over $10K, I'd go for the former not the latter... "eyes closed" (so to speak of course). I want to see that thing grow my clean food by the loads and easily, seamlessly, so that a 10 year old could use it - that includes me, quasi-ignorant on food otherwise (dear wife may not always be around) - I can eat a lot, though!

I'm also already saving (fiat) for alternate affordable home-made energy when a breakthrough hits the market.

I agree with the OP: we all have our specialization domains, but one can't know about or specialize themselves in everything - hence the concept of consumer, duh. Consumer and free markets society: I'm all for it; debt society or big state/big-cronycorporate-reliant society: those I vomit.

Interesting idea re: election processes; I also advocated for another orthogonal improvement: in this information age, I still don't get how come the congressmen or senators of the Republic have to be sustained by the tax payer.

One wanna do politics? Fine, have a job or business first, then commit to your ideas about people's concerns in your state-local communities. No way that ought to be a full time job. Even less paid by my/your money.

Politicians ought to be volunteers.

My intuition is the public function married to GOVERNANCE POWER, with rent-seeking, has been a HUGE source of moral hazard in the ideas or practically, and political/legal corruption. And not just in the U.S., obviously.

My .10 oz/Ag. ;)

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

The Bickering On DP

is becoming laughable.

skippy

deacon's picture

I concur skippy d

I rarely ask or comment here anymore
I for the life of me cannot figure out who knows what
and who doesn't anymore
deacon

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

Someone asked why I had not commented on this, so here goes.

"Our job, now is to get these people the support and funding they need to get on their feet. Most often, it isn't even that much. We just have to remember that they are producing these solutions on their own dime while trying to survive the same family struggles that the rest are wrestling with."

Sorry, that is where you lose me. I have spent 2 years actively promoting aquaponics, giving fish, seeds, barrels, support, knowledge,anything I had to share, I gave away. I've been posting videos for years to try to get others to build a system. Now I am building our system, the intent is to make it large enough to supply the food pantries in the two rural counties where I live / farm. We are draining the last of our savings to make this happen. The irony in that sentence was too much for me. My husband started working a second job today, at 52 years old he will be pulling graveyard shifts prn after his full time day job. Yeah, we are struggling, and if anyone wants to help make this system come together, we'll take all the help we can get. But I don't think you are suggesting anyone help us, I think you want me to buy / promote your system idea. Let me share a secret with you - people like to design their own, and when they do they understand it better and it can be made to suit their situation.
I like very much that you are looking for solutions, and after reading the rest I realize I did not give your thread a fair shake - I thought it was going to all be about aquaponics. As for ending the NWO, only one way to do that: Jubilee.

Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.

I can see how ironic it seems from your pov

but what you may not understand is that only 'some' people want to build their own. For them, I say, "Go for it. Improve and share it around. The more, the merrier."

For the rest of the sleeping masses, they WILL NOT BUY UNTIL IT'S TURNKEY. This is the key point in the entire post. So many people won't do squat unless they can plug it in and watch it work. I've helped so many people set up some device, machine or whatever by simply following the directions they refused to read. The latest one was, if you can believe it... an ice cream maker. They simply wanted someone to show them how to add the ice and rock salt instead of reading maybe 2 pages in a tiny booklet (yet they actually did read the recipe page that followed the ice page.)

Those people deserve to benefit from aquaponics just as much as those who are more DIY. If an all-in-one controller can be built which does everything from monitoring to pumping to powering the lights, then that many more people will get off the corporate food treadmill. As this grows, it removes the power of these mega companies over even the parts of the food chain you still rely on. Is that something you support?

Regarding jubilee, the only way I see that happening is if we switch to a different currency and then crash theirs. Doable but still needs way more than 51% support. Right?

My experience has been different

The people who we helped set up "turn key" never understood what they were doing or why, and their systems failed. The ones who designed their own knew what every part was, and what to do if it malfunctioned.
People are already selling automated systems, so I do not doubt there is a market for them. I simply would not expect these people to keep their systems running after the first problem arises. If you really want people off the corporate food treadmill, the key is education. If they are still so zombified they expect it to be effortless, they are not really ready to take control of their situation.
And we don't have to switch to "a" 'nother currency, we need to start accepting ANY other currency. Rather than always looking to make another FRN, we meed to learn to seek out other forms of payment.

Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.

Nice display of arrogance, ya got there

Just because someone isn't ready to do everything your old-school, manual way, you're ready to write them off until they come around to your education on how they should do it. That's what I get when I read your words. That's just sad, really sad.

What people don't realize is that aquaponics is extremely simple. It can be explained literally in seconds to pretty much anyone I know. However, the implementation of actually doing it is most certainly not easy. For example, how do you educate people to test their pH, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, EC and minor minerals? Do you give them an $80 meter for each one or do you present them with a ton of instructions on counting drops and comparing colors in some calibrated container? Are you telling me that someone who finds this specific step as too much work or as daunting information, you would deny them a single box which displays those parameters on a screen?

I could go on at length on the number of assumptions you make by your statements that alienate those masses that will never listen to your, 'it's very hard so pay lots of attention here' lessons.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying what you're doing is wrong. We all need the pioneers to make and learn from mistakes. We just don't need them to be so myopic that they can't allow a little technology to help them out.

And I never said we needed a single currency. I said we need a different one. By that, I was implying that the world needs to get the control wrestled away from the US FRN being the reserve currency and from governments mandating it. Give me a little credit, will ya?

Funny, that was sort of what I was thinking.

You have some great ideas. Are you living any of them?
I tried to offer you the benefit of my experience. If you take that for "arrogance" you will learn everything the hard way.
Good luck to you, I'd love to see pics of your system.

Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.

Truce?

I don't know why, but every single word you write to me comes off as arrogant, condescending and telling me 'go ahead because you'll be back when you fail'.

I'm honestly trying to see another side to it, but after reading your words numerous times now, you are still saying the same thing. You just assume your experience is needed here and will help me out and that's all you focus on. I find that insultingly arrogant especially lacking any specific questions on all the new stuff. There are lots of brand new methods intertwined there, yet not a word.

I'm trying to get along here. The reason is that just like you believe you could help me out, I could help you. You seem fixated on my doing this for myself. I'm not. Been there, already learned lots the hard way. I've eaten naturally ripe, extra meaty Roma tomatoes that were nothing but a seed 31 days earlier (from orbitropism). I've spent between $40/month to grow $20 (store value) and later spent $.95/month to grow $50+ worth in store value. I have done it and will do more (rebuilding it ATM) but that's not my only goal.

My goal is to simplify and consolidate as many features into one box as I can cost effectively do to successfully draw in as many others as possible. If you read that other projects in the OP, you'll see that's a common thread. You can think of it as me trying to create "windows" and a mouse for computers in a DOS world. I'm sure you can grasp how that changed the PC market.

This is how you offer "truce?"

"You just assume your experience is needed here and will help me out and that's all you focus on."

That is what it seems you are doing with this entire post, to me. You have many good ideas, as I stated many times. I am more interested in people who are showing good examples. To each his own I do not expect or hope you fail, but I know that great ideas need implemented to be worth a damn.

Honestly, I wish you the best. You have good ideas. I am doing what I am doing, because I think what I am doing is important. It seems to me that you are doing what you are doing because you think you are important, but maybe I am wrong.

Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.

deacon's picture

I have set up

aquaponics from sources on the net,i made mine
so i could understand how it was done
fish tank on the bottom,pumped into a bucket on top
(this works like a settling tank)septic tank.hoses coming from the
top to the plants
you have mentioned a few things i was totally unaware of
so if i may ask a question or some
"test their pH, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, EC and minor minerals?"
i have heard of a few of theses but not all of them,like PH,and the balancing of soils,i should take it,that they are necessary?
just because its water it should be treated like a soils,as plants grow from it?
deacon

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

Yes.

This is what I mean, The OP has good ideas, but no experience. Yes, you need to test for pH frequently. Depending on your media, the pH can change as minerals leech into the water. You may have to change media if it is too bad. The best idea is to soak your media in a bucket of water for a week or two before you fill a grow bed with it, and test the pH every few days to see if it is leeching.
There are test strips which will test all those things other than total dissolved solids (EC / minor minerals.) There is a hand held gadget that will test that for you, and give you pH and temperature - also important. You will also probably need to add chelated iron - or throw some rusty nails in the system. You don't need to test for it, it is so common that yellowing of the plants is assumed to be an iron problem.
The ammonia, nitrates, nitrites testing is how you know when your system is "cycling." It is the ni-trite / trate conversion you are looking for.

Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.

deacon's picture

well my friend

i have my working model complete,after a few minor set backs
the fish are doing great(none that we can eat though)
the plants in the top i started 2 weeks ago are in the troughs
and growing
one plant( i shall call for all intents and purposes a japenese maple)
has browned leaves on the tips,but the others seem well so far
am looking into these bulbs for growing indoors
http://www.holidayleds.com/christmas_lights/blue_c7_led
from what i have read so far,a 3 to 1 ratio,red being more prominent
gives the right light spectrum for plants
i have planted lettuce,tom's,chili peppers and a couple of marigolds
just to see what i can and cannot grow
deacon

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

That is awesome!

Watch for signs of iron deficiency - most AP systems will need iron added. It sounds like you are off to a great start - post pics!

Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.