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"The 'Libertarian' Taliban Writing Ron Paul's Curriculum"

With the newsletter controversy finally easing into obscurity, has Ron Paul once again licensed his good name to someone he shouldn't? Apparently, Gary North, who's writing the Ron Paul home school curriculum, has, in previous writings, called for America to become a Christian theocracy that constructs "a Bible-based social, political, and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God."

As for maintaining order in the home school classroom, let's hope he doesn't restate an earlier assertion that, "When people curse their parents, it unquestionably is a capital crime (Ex. 21:17). The son or daughter is under the lawful jurisdiction of the family. The integrity of the family must be maintained by the threat of death."

Even considering that Paul and Woods would presumably veto that kind of talk in this curriculum, have they done themselves a huge disfavor by associating so closely with him?

Read all about it at:
http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2013/04/08/gary-north-t...



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Disappointing

The enemies of liberty will quote that stoning passage endlessly and the ridicule will flow.

Should have just been Woods.

"If this mischievous financial policy [greenbacks], which has its origin in North America, should become endurated down to a fixture, then that government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off its debts and be without debts. It will hav

Yes, Ron Paul has a book on

Yes, Ron Paul has a book on homeschooling coming this fall. If he doesn't settle the doubts of the RP curriculum ASAP, he will be bombarded with criticism by the media when he's making the rounds doing interviews about the book

I'm as atheist as it gets.

I'm as atheist as it gets. Gary North is Christian, but he's an anti-statist. So no, he may have a long time ago been a statist.. but who wasn't? I used to be an NPRbot progressive. We're all programmed to be statists.

Whatever Gary North's kind of Christianity is, I'm ok with it.

If there was anti-statist Islam I'd be ok with that too. Too bad there isn't any.

As an atheist, anti-statist Christianity isn't a threat to me and can never be.

The religion of statolatry is a big threat.

Great comment.

This is something I try to communicate to Atheist AnCaps all the time, Christian AnCaps are not their enemy.

Coercion is their enemy, and both share the same hatred for the State and all the evil it does.

Religious and non-religious aggressors alike are the enemy of both Christian and Atheist AnCaps.

A Christian statist is just as much my adversary as an Atheist statist is.

Anti-statists need to stick together, and not lose focus of who their real enemy is: the State and it's proponents.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

"Statolatry." Nice!

"Statolatry." Nice!

Andrew Napolitano for President 2016!
http://andrewnapolitano.com/index

"Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping Graven images." - ironman77

Let's hear him renounce his

Let's hear him renounce his prior writing, then people might reconsider

Well I wasn't aware of any

Well I wasn't aware of any storied history, but I'm sure if asked politely he would have an answer. If Gary has a weakness it isn't stinginess of prose. I'd like to hear what he says too.

I will say this. I'm new to the liberty game, just in the last decade.

But I listen to what people say, and observe what they do. I'm trained in logic, symbolic and rhetorical, so what someone may have done or said before isn't something I much concern myself with.

To make it very clear, if Barack Obama or Sean Hannity professed an epiphany for liberty and started acting on it, I would welcome them. I would watch them, but I would welcome them.

If there's something questionable in Mr North's curriculum that would be different. But even as an atheist, I don't think merely teaching Christianity is questionable. Especially if it's anti-statist oriented Christianity.

I've read a lot of Gary North's writings

and personally, never saw him as someone determined to turn America into a Christian theocracy. Your labeling him as Taliban is offensive to the Taliban and actually exhibits extremely bias on your part.

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

Did you see the quote below?

Then they will get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political, and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God... It will take time. A minority religion cannot do this. Theocracy must flow from the hearts of a majority of citizens.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

Sounds like an Online Catholic School

Cool, I'm in! fortunately for me I already graduated so horay! no more school for me anyways! B-)

On another note, you gotta love when they try to nit pick and defame anything they can because it's obvious that everything must be run by saints but then again, atheists would probably denounce saints with having to do with religion so...

Asshat Alert

Were did all the asshats come from .. if you don't like it don't freakin buy it. Right now we have state sponsered indoctrination .. and you asshats think that is right. You people need to figure out what freedom means .. go look it up

The new religon of "science" .. The definition of science is observable,testable repeatable .... and it should be debated.

Phxarcher87's picture

Competition drive the market

maybe they will be able to produce a better form of education but i highly doubt it. Strong work cheesewhiz

THE CLASS OF CITIZENS WHO PROVIDE AT ONCE THEIR OWN FOOD AND THEIR OWN RAIMENT, MAY BE VIEWED AS THE MOST TRULY INDEPENDENT AND HAPPY.
James Madison

B A M !

cheesewhiz, and a whole box of crackers!

good stuff

If the Son sets you free ...

Paranoid anti Christian bias is all. For many of you all, you know of of Christianity is the straw man from the movie zeitgist. There is nothing more free the Biblical Christianity.

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A red flag was raised within

A red flag was raised within just 30 seconds of watching Gary North's intro video on the curriculum: "First, it should teach the biblical principle of self-government". Rightly or wrongly there's already a stigma that homeschoolers are a bunch of religious wackos and divisive statements like that don't help.

And while it's true we haven't seen the curriculum to make a judgement, we all have to remember the Fabian Socialists goals of achieving socialism through slow motion and then consider perhaps the idea that Gary North wants to achieve slow motion Christian theocracy in America. Consider his own statement:

we must use the doctrine of religious liberty to gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political, and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God... It will take time. A minority religion cannot do this. Theocracy must flow from the hearts of a majority of citizens.

If I wanted a purely secular curriculum and found that Gary North couldn't provide it, that's my problem. But if Gary North wants to achieve Christian Theocracy through his curriculum, that's everyone's problem. That's what makes him such a dangerous figure in this project. I doubt very much that even many modern Christians would want anything to do with the curriculum if they learned North's views on a variety of topics - stoning for example.

While it's unfortunate that we should have to deal with this, it's good that this topic is getting some exposure among the grassroots so that Paul supporters can voice their support ahead of time for making sure the curriculum doesn't go in the wrong direction before it actually launches. Tom Woods so far has been ignoring the comments on his webpage. You can voice your concerns there, but also send your complaint emails to info@ronpaulcurriculum.com

The problem isn't going to go away if it's ignored. Maybe Gary North should get the boot or be sent to the backroom and the project given a new face, maybe the Curriculum people will state there will be an optional strictly-secular track, or maybe this whole thing will be a trainwreck. Prevent that from happening by telling the people involved your opinion

Was Samuel Adams a "theocrat"?

Was Samuel Adams a "theocrat? Or do you not know history? Read this and let me know what you think:

http://www.apstudent.com/ushistory/docs1751/samadams.htm

You will be hard pressed to find any founding father that does not have similar things in speeches, writings, or books. In fact, I have over 22 volumes of such writings on my hard drive now.

The reason you are so insulting is you're defaming Christians with the label theocrats, while by your criteria, all of our founders were theocrats. It's merely vapor from your ass.

I mean, what are you, a bunch of atheistic Marxists? Really, I can't think of any other reason.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Debbie's picture

Thank you for the link.

I look forward to reading the whole thing!

Debbie

You can find this in a lot of

You can find this in a lot of free google books too.

I noticed with some irritation that my favorite sites with the entire speech in text are down. A lot of sites posts 'parts', not the whole thing, and I can't help feeling it's intentional censorship - but they do it with a lot of other documents too.

This speech was given August 1st, 1776, right before the signing of the Declaration of Independence*1, for the Declaration of Independence, and is called "American Independence" by Samuel Adams.

*1 Only John Hancock and the the secretary of congress Charles Thomson actually signed the Declaration of Independence on July 4th, 1776. The rest of congress signed it on August 2nd, 1776.

*2 Charles Thomson was not only secretary of congress, but in later years, ended up translating the entire Bible from the Septuagint into English, considered the best translation of it at that time.

* John Hancock was widely known for issuing proclamations calling for prayer and fasting.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

I don't disagree with the

I don't disagree with the thrust of your post, and I'd be wary if, for example, the science curriculum pushed intelligent design, which I see as an intellectual cop-out despite that I tend toward theistic evolution. I just want to add to the discussion that the idea that self-governance is biblical, even relatively uniquely biblical in its time, isn't wacko and it's pretty hard to go from this biblical principle to a top-down theocracy some folks are accusing North of.

1 Samuel 8 has a pretty lengthy God-rant when the Israelites wanted to go from having judges upheld by the people to having a king who ruled over them. It's a rant that's eerily similar to anti-gov. posts here. I'm no scholar on ancient religious texts, but I'm betting this is one of the earliest anti-authoritarian, pro-self governance screeds you're going to find. I'm thinking the link between God's best idea for how people should organize themselves politically and libertarian ideas...well, go way back.

It would seem to me that the biblical rant, which follows, is pretty clearly God arguing for a system in which each man is free to choose God as his personal king -- or not. He juxtaposes that notion with what men will get if they go with a king, whom does not allow such freedom.

Here's the text just after Samuel tells God that the people are begging for a king.

God says: Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will claim as his rights.

Samuel told all the words of the Lord to the people who were asking him for a king. He said, “This is what the king who will reign over you will claim as his rights: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. Your male and female servants and the best of your cattle and donkeys he will take for his own use. He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, but the Lord will not answer you in that day."

But the people refused to listen to Samuel. “No!” they said. “We want a king over us. Then we will be like all the other nations, with a king to lead us and to go out before us and fight our battles.”

When Samuel heard all that the people said, he repeated it before the Lord. The Lord answered, “Listen to them and give them a king.”

Phxarcher87's picture

I like how when someone comes up with

a solution to our problems people can’t even reserve judgment or maybe give a new hope. Instantly we scream kick and revert to old failed evil ways. This is pathetic. At least he is offering a solution to our problems.

You would not hear me complain if more children learned and studied principals like that of Tom Woods, Lew Rockwell, Ron Paul, Rand Paul, and the Judge all admire and hold close to their hearts. Do you think there is any correlation that all of those men i typed are Christians? I mean i know were are not supposed to look at people in groups but by golly how can you not? These me are on the fighting font of educating the world, they are not merely tossed around like a leaf in the wind. These men have conviction from the Holy bible all hold Jesus Christ to their core. More courageously they practice what they preach. They stay private with their faith, but it is what shapes them more than anything.

I find obscurely crazy why so many people demonize the idea of faith in Jesus Christ. I wonder what would happen if we united under one banner of love and understanding. We would flip this world upside down like the disciples did 2012 years ago. Have we all lost the ability to soften our hearts and connect with the one all mighty spiritual being? We put so much faith in Government and things. Material objects and money but why have we lost the ability to recognize that we were created in our mothers wombs. That the everlasting loving God of the cosmos, really wants us under his mercy and love.

THE CLASS OF CITIZENS WHO PROVIDE AT ONCE THEIR OWN FOOD AND THEIR OWN RAIMENT, MAY BE VIEWED AS THE MOST TRULY INDEPENDENT AND HAPPY.
James Madison

"so many people demonize the idea of faith in Jesus Christ"

No one is attacking Christianity, we are attacking theocracy.

That is clearly what Gary North advocates in the quoted passage.

Are you in favor of theocracy?

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

Are you sure...

...what you are calling 'theocracy' is really what the reconstructionists envision? Do they advocate a totalitarian state dictating religion, or people voluntarily organizing themselves in a community based on like-minded principles, which would spread as the light of the 'city on the hill' draws others to it? I'm neither a post-millenialist nor a reconstructionist, but I have the feeling that this bashing of North and trying to trash Dr. Paul's association with him in this curriculum before it even gets off the ground, is a deliberate distortion of what these views really represent.

Well that's disturbing

.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

you just like to link smears about Ron or what?

Because the curricula isn't even out and you have no idea what is in it and why you just wanted to call in newsletters is interesting as well.

Tom Woods wrote the 'Catholic track' of western civ and I can't imagine anyone calling him Taliban. Also, there ARE different views of events by different cultures within the country and comparison or evaluation through the eyes of one isn't remotely 'Taliban' ish. Beyond that, you have no information and are just projecting.

Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesnt want to hear -RonPaul

Just gonna put this out there...

This article was written in response to the article you posted. It's worth taking a look at:

http://reformedlibertarian.com/2013/04/08/a-libertarian-invo...

I do not at all agree with Gary North's reconstructionist views, I'm actually not even religious, but I do think it is appropriate to view them in the proper context.

I'm reaching up and reaching out.
I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
Spiral out.

Thanks. The blog you linked

Thanks. The blog you linked was helpful in putting North on context.

Terrible mistake

I was extremely disappointed to hear that Gary North is involved with the project. I can just imagine what he will come up with for science curricula.

It makes me sad, sad, sad just thinking about it.

Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń

"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

So don't use it.

Simple enough.

Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesnt want to hear -RonPaul

But it's more than that.

If curriculum is being put out in Ron Paul's name which advocates theocracy, well that's pretty bad for the reputation of the liberty movement, and does not represent what we actually stand for.

I would hope Ron Paul would have more sense than to allow that to happen.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

I was a bit disappointed

when I found out North was involved because I don't care for him very much. However, that's not going to stop me from checking out the curriculum and using it if it stays in line with liberty ideals. If there are any subjects where I disagree with the things being taught I'll omit those lessons and just use the ones I don't take issue with. For now I'll just reserve judgment.

I'm reaching up and reaching out.
I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
Spiral out.