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Homeschool curriculum creator Gary North ... crazy ? Via Punk Rock Libertarians

I found this on the Punk Rock Libertarian Facebook page. Sounds REALLY nuts. Was curious what everyone's take on this was. Please read the whole article before making your mind up.

http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2013/04/08/gary-north-t...

Quote:

"Let this serve as a warning to the libertarian and Christian homeschooling communities: Gary North, the man who is writing and publishing the “Ron Paul Curriculum,” is certifiably nuts. North subscribes to an ultra-ultra-fundamentalist religious ideology called “Christian Reconstructionism,” which aspires to establish a global Christian theocracy and reinstitute all of Old Testament law. I am not exaggerating."

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Gary North and Ron Paul

have been friends for decades. North is not a fundamentalist, nuts, or crazy, any more than Ron Paul or Tom Woods. Those three men are dangerous.....to regimes of tyranny.

The three of them working together are going to produce an excellent curriculum that will help train minds for liberty, minds of children and their parents (who will learn more than the children).

North has a Facebook site, a blog, lectures on you tube, and lots of books on the internet that you can read for free. His crowning achievement so far is a multi-volume economic commentary on the Bible that you can read for free. He shows that private free enterprise is a biblical concept.

To quote Lew Rockwell

To quote Lew Rockwell:

Despite what the Guardian claims, Ron is no religious right-winger. His non-denominational Protestant faith is tolerant and humble. It's true that Ron employs the brilliant Gary North; he also employs the brilliant Tom Woods; both will help him with his homeschool curriculum. But Ron is neither a Calvinist nor a Catholic, and he is in charge of the content and everything else. And as Ron said yesterday in a conference call, he wants a curriculum that--while recognizing the importance of religion, as the non-religious Murray Rothbard did--is not "Christian."

"I want all parents concerned about getting, a high-quality, low-price, rigorous, parent-controlled, pro-liberty education for their children to be able to use this curriculum, whether they are atheist libertarians or evangelicals or anyone else," he said. Gary North's religious views are not Ron Paul's, and neither are Tom Woods's. But Ron works happily with both these scholars on shared liberty projects. "Freedom brings people together," as he has often noted.

(http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/135452.html)

I think the article is uncharitble and slanted.

I'm not all that familiar with christian reconstructionism, so I may be mistaken, but after looking at the article, I think it is being uncharitable in it's assessment and is slanted.

When they quote the guy as saying: "So let us be blunt about it: we must use the doctrine of religious liberty to gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political, and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God."

He may have meant that religious liberty should be used to gain independence 'for Christian schools' until independence for Christian schools can be without having to appeal to some principle of exception(an exception based on religious liberty), because a change in thinking in society might lead people to realize that there is no neutrality in worldviews, and that a secular public school is just as religious, in it's worldview dogmas as any other religious worldview. It's the idea that they want an equal playing field instead of assuming that the secular view is neutral. Assuming neutrality of the secular might be thought of as giving opportunity to gagging religious thoughts and practices even in religious schools, thus the reliance on religious liberty to prevent that in schools. And if that is a plausible interpretation of the text, a charitable reading would opt for viewing it that way instead of viewing it as referring to removing liberties from people outside of Christian schools, at least in that quote anyways.

Also. When people bring up the use of mosaic law and capital punishment for homosexuals, I think there is a gross misunderstanding. Many Calvinists view the mosaic law as having 3 parts (moral, Hebrew civil, and ceremonial), while only the moral aspect of the law is viewed as valid today. So when they mention supporting the mosaic law, I think they only refer to the moral law aspect of it, which they view as found within the ten commandments, but are not the ten commandments explicitly. So these mentions of capital punishments of gay people (civil laws) are just misunderstanding and misrepresenting what is meant by mosaic law by those sorts of people. A real world example of what might be in mind by similar people who want to affect society outside of schools might be seen in places where sabbatarianism is still practiced. For example, some towns voluntarily closed all of their stores on Sundays, because the underlying moral principle behind the 4th commandment is viewed as showing love to God by setting aside a day for God, which the early church celebrated on Sunday because of the resurrection of Jesus. Wikipedia says of Lynden WA for example: "Due to the town's large population of those who attend or are members of Lynden's many churches, the town has had a long tradition of most businesses closing on Sunday. This was voluntary, never by ordinance however."

I found this quote of Gary North saying almost the exact opposite of what the article says about him wanting to set up some kind of religious state control(or messianic state) with death penalties for everything:
" It is my goal in life to do what I can to persuade people to shrink the state. The messianic State is a crude imitation of a religion of redemption. It makes the State the healer and, ultimately, the savior of all mankind. This messianic religion is what the early church battled theologically and risked martyrdom to oppose. Christians refused to toss a pinch of incense onto the altar symbolizing the genius of the emperor. For that seemingly minor resistance to State power, they were thrown to the lions. Both sides knew the stakes of that contest. Christianity was a dagger pointed at the heart of the messianic State. It still is." http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north302.html

Yeah we need to get this straightened out

I am totally thrilled about the idea of a Ron Paul homeschooling movement. And I want to get in on the action, and keep my kids out of public school.

But when DailyPaulers are asking questions... I think we need an explicit response from North himself. Saying whether any type of religion is incorporated into the curriculum.

Wow

Where do they come from, the first "taliban" headline on the DP .. now the "crazy" .. right outta The Bill Clinton playbook .. You people make me sick

Fine bunch of collectivists on a libertarian site.

If the guy isn't pointing a gun at your head making you believe something, it really isn't any of your business what his beliefs are.

These type of caricatures are a hallmark of leftist collectivists that don't allow thought outside the allowed boundaries.

Intellectual discussion may engage someone with different beliefs in the pursuit of truth - but it's based on facts, not name calling like crazy and taliban or collectivismm like it really matters what most other people think.

It's a search for truth. It allows the other person to disagree.

Point of fact, I don't care what a lot of you think. I care about the actual facts. Etc. It's not a vote.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

There are people who are not

die-hard Ron Paul supporters looking into this curriculum. Not everyone has the time to vet every word for every curriculum they are screening so vetting the instructor is a reasonable start. They are going to google "Gary North" and if these are the views that are ascribed to him, they are going to move on to considering a different curriculum.

If the answer is that Gary North holds beliefs they aren't going to want to take a chance seeming like they are endorsing to their children, that is fair. They should move on because no one should be expected to vet the message, too, when vetting him didn't pan out and they are only at the screening stage of considering half a dozen curricula. If the answer is that his beliefs have been taken out of context, then we should look into making a case to refute the claims made about his beliefs so these parents can make their decision based on more information.

Defend Liberty!

Google Ron Paul

Yeah the MSM calls him "crazy" too .. my local "conservative" NWO talk show host does the same ... SO the stupidity is astounding by the asshats

Cyril's picture

+10 if I could on this

"If the guy isn't pointing a gun at your head making you believe something, it really isn't any of your business what his beliefs are."

^^^ +10 if I could on this. BAM. Nailed.

Next topic, please.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

One of the comments on this article linked to this:

http://reformedlibertarian.com/2013/04/08/a-libertarian-invo...
I think it is much more in tune with the truth of the matter. I have read some of North's books, and used some in our homeschool and have met him, as he spoke at a small church we were attending, and spent the night at friends of ours, and we visited there. Judging from his sermon at our little church, this original article is way off. I think some of the confusion results from his father in law, Rushdoony, who North disagreed with on many issues.

Well, let's just wait and see

Well, let's just wait and see what's actually in the curriculum before we get all excited about this.

Is it in the curriculum ?

If not i don't take much issue. Stick to history and logic.

Was anyone here planning on blindly not reading the material before teaching it to your kids?

What homeschooling parent could do that?

Public schoolbooks is where you find the real author crackpots.

I'd like to see this get sorted out.

People are asking questions about the Ron Paul curriculum and when the answers turn up "Gary North", then they ask more questions, they are getting turned off.

Is Gary North really a Reconstructionist as described in this article or has he been taken out of context? Is there some kind of widespread misunderstanding of what Reconstructionism is? If he ever was a Reconstructionist, has he denounced it?

I can see someone who is against the death penalty pointing out about how a stoning was a community affair as a way of mocking how we consider ourselves to not have blood on our hands when we vote for supporters of it. Is there an underlying argument like that involved? Yes, the text is right there in the article-writer's link, but ya'll know how it can be reading an idealist's writings sometimes...layers upon layers of assuming the reader has been following along for enough years to understand the real context.

I've come across this issue with Gary North before, where Ron Paul's association with Gary North was counted as a reason to completely dismiss his judgement. The article cited in that case was full of logical fallacies and just seemed like the author was begging himself for an excuse not to consider Ron Paul's views so I took it for that at the time. There will always be people like that, whether Gary North is a problem or not, but I'd like to know more about whether this Gary North association is really a problem.

Defend Liberty!

Good Find

I'm even more freaked out now. What is it with these people? Why would Tom Woods be helping?

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

Time will tell I guess

Time will tell I guess