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Is it possible to be an Atheist and a Patriot?

Is it possible to be an Atheist and a Patriot?

Our founders didn't think so, judging from the numerous quotes from them that it doesn't work.

My thoughts is, that the despite has gone on too long, and the end is near, and I know in God's kingdom, an atheist will not be found. I'm not here to prop up a government with infidels, but herald in the
return of Jesus Christ and His Kingdom.

What do you think? Will God forever tolerate the despite of His own people, whose salvation was bought with the precious blood of the Lamb? Is 2,000 years being patient enough? Is America going from a Christian nation to what it is now a sign of the end of the world, and the reign of Jesus Christ, who alone is King of Kings and Lord of Lords?

Quotes from the founders for and against appreciated. But as for me, I pray for the end. God bless whom he will bless. But God does not bless non-Christian nations.

"Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end,"
Isaiah 9:7

5 Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass. 6 And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.
Psalm 37:5-6



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Simple Facts and Plain Arguments
A common sense take on politics and current events.

www.simplefactsplainarguments.com

Patriotism

I don't fight for my country. I fight for life and liberty. America didn't give me my rights, life did (or god) for those of you who believe. I never liked the meaning of patriot/ism. We do not fight for the land but we fight for our rights. We do not fight for the country but for the understanding that we are free people. Could I still be called a patriot If I were to go against the government because I think they are abusing their power? Patriotic terrorist!?WTH

This can't be a real post.

Atheist believe this is the only life we get. So savor and treasure it. This guy is cheering on the end of the world.

This post is to try and drive a wedge in the liberty movement. A truly religious person would be trying to save us through persuasion. All that the poster did was insult a good many of us.

A mother who prays the rosary for her son all her life

....may be saved in the end. You need to pray for all your friend's souls, as the MEDIA has brainwashed them & others into actually believing there is no Hell, or at the least that 'hey, Hitler's in hell, but not me, not my relatives!'

The point is this~~NOBODY knows 100% for sure, if they'll be in heaven someday, but we do know if we have a pretty good chance, if we repent for the things we do to ourselves & others, and if we obey God's commandments in earnest.

Yes, an atheist CAN be a patriot. This is obvious, but for our culture to thrive, it is better that atheists convert to a belief in God. It's the glue that will stick Americans together, as it did prior to the 1960's.

As long as it's done in a

As long as it's done in a voluntary way and not by force. Preferably, without the stick and carrot treatment as well, where people are told they will go to hell if they don't behave.

Moral people act moral, not because they are afraid to go to hell. They are moral, because they believe it's the right thing to do. The best religious people never tend to preach in my experience. They simply ACT their beliefs and live their lives as an example to others. I mean, what's going to be more convincing as an act of morality? Preaching about you going to hell? Or actually helping people with no regard to yourself? I know which one is more convincing.

I don't mind religion. As a

I don't mind religion. As a matter of fact, there are indeed a lot of religious people that are good people. But posts like these give them a bad name.

Jesus freaks mucking up the

Jesus freaks mucking up the whole place. I have no doubt this guy is certifiable. Not from the OP, but from his comments.

See people, now you know why atheist hate religion?

Anyway, answer to the question. I have gone beyond the jingoistic patriotism that makes people believe their country and its people are the best in the world. 'Patriots' as defined today are the people who pick up guns to go and murder 'foreigners' and contribute heavily to the political campaigns of snakes. So no patriotism for me, thank you very much, it is uncomfortably close to nationalism.

Of course!

Atheists may in fact be better patriots in many cases, as they do not split their allegiance between their country / desire for Liberty for all and their respective deities / religions, the latter of which often inspire prejudice and exclusion. And prejudice / exclusion = a lack of respect for others' Liberty = false patriot (LOL! Sounds kinda like a *false prophet*.)

Obviously, there are religious people who are fantastic patriots, and that is to be respected... and, frankly, where would we be without them? (In even sadder shape I should think, as they are some of our best leaders).

But listen: this subtle / not so subtle Christian Jihad bullshit has to stop! It is distracting and divisive to our shared goal (which rhymes not surprisingly with *troll*).

: )

What would the Founders do?

Look

These types of posts are getting petty and childish.

What are they accomplishing?

Ron Paul convert from the Heart of Dixie

Division for one. The devil

Division for one. The devil must be laughing it up.

Last Call

Last Call

Do you want to be saved or not?

It's what it's all about folks.

The devil would like to place something else there, an idol, and the wicked would like to drag you under.

Ask that question. If a person says no, you may pray for him, but move on.

If you need anything on earth, just ask your Heavenly Father for it. Not wicked men like getting love from God is a democracy. God forbid this wickedness go on!

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Define "patriot" and define "athiest"...

then ask yourself if the terms are mutually exclusive.

I'll bet that you will find that they are not.

I'll do it for you:

pa·tri·ot
/ˈpātrēət/
Noun

1.A person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.
2.An automated surface-to-air missile system designed for early detection and interception of missiles or aircraft.

a·the·ist
[ey-thee-ist]
Noun

1.A person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

It would seem that unless you mean that a patriot is a missile battery, that one could be both an atheist and a patriot at the same time.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

Actually, that is an incorrect definition

That definition of 'atheist' is a basic "Begging the Question" fallacy statement - much like in court discussing something not in evidence. A correct definition:

"a person without a god belief" or
"a person without a belief in a diety"

It is impossible to "deny" or "disbelieve" something that doesn't exist. That statement makes the assumption that a deity exists and an atheist is merely "denying" that existence and doing the "La, La, La, La, La" thing. That definition is based on the original Webster Dictionary, which was edited by Christian preachers to read that way. And, it is very insulting....and just wrong.

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

Josh - I no longer want to

Josh - I no longer want to argue with you about politics, but I give you George Washington's quote that says patriotism and atheism is impossible.

I'm going to ask you one question. Do you want to be saved? If the answer is no, I don't want anything else to do with you. And that question goes for all out there that may have been mocking God's people on here or God. Do you want to be saved?.

Politics is not about majority opinion, which is the constant error of the lost. It is pleasing God. Separate yourselves, and let your prayer be heard and your voices lifted up in praise to God above.

George Washington:
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

If you

Don't want to have anything to do with people who think differently than you then WHY are you in a LIBERTARIAN forum?

I'm NOT an athiest, but it's comments like yours which hurt NOT ONLY the liberty movement, BUT ALSO Christianity in general.

Ron Paul convert from the Heart of Dixie

George Washington

I give you George Washington's farewell speech in answer to your own question, and you know the answer already.

I'm no longer interested in governing with the lost, when the Bible tells me not to.

We've endless posted the same things, and many of you have continued to lie about the same things, mock, etc, when given facts. Why would any sane person want to befriend those who hate their very life

It's not possible to govern with you, because even when you are well meaning, you have no spiritual insight given from God above, you can not pray to ask Him to intercede, and won't pray to him to be saved yourselves, and quite frankly, being next to you makes Him displeased too much.

The answer is simply - ask Him to save you or get out of the way. But that is all this is about. The rest is just trying to keep us from praying or away from the Father.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Max

Just how does a Christian determine who is "the lost?" My bible teaches that it is wrong to judge others, and actually THEORETICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to determine who is truly saved and who is not.

Politicians who publicly use all the right words, "Godly", "moral", "righteous" (have we forgotten that "none is righteous, not one."?) are not doing this in order to serve God. They are using these stirring phrases to get elected, and, believe me, their actions have very ungodly consequences.

Ronald Reagan used all the right words and phrases to attract the limited government vote. I should know, as I was one of the ones he fooled (he was the first man I ever voted for for President). But there comes a time when if we actually wish to accomplish something through politics, we must focus more on substance than rhetoric. If a "lost" man can be a competent attorney, physician, or computer repairman, why can't a "lost" man be a competent liberty activist?

I understand how sometimes you feel put upon because a very vocal minority of posters on this forum have a deep abiding hatred for anything theistic. But simply telling people that they are going to hell if they don't worship in a certain way does not help your cause. Do you think God wishes people to come to him to avoid Hell, or to do so because it is the right thing to do? God reads our hearts, and if our hearts are in the wrong place, fear of Hell is not going to do us any good.

Please Max, open your heart to the good in people, even people who may explicitly deny your God. Did it ever occur to you that the reason so many people get turned off to Christianity is the way many of those claiming to speak for God have been mean spirited and judgmental, traits which tend not to evoke good will, and hypocritical, which, perhaps unfairly, is associated with the message as well as the messenger?

You are not even making a coherent argument.

"Why would any sane person want to befriend those who hate their very life"

What does that quote have to do with anything?

The definition of atheist is not self-loathing.

And self loathing does not exclude someone from being "a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors."

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

That's an insult, one of

That's an insult, one of which I'm being told to just leave on.

But since you might not have read my earlier message.

Do you want to be saved, or not?

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

By the way, it may be hard to

By the way, it may be hard to find founders against, since they were all Christians and all went to church, but I welcome some of the usual pseudo quotes on this thread, as I have 22 volumes of Christian works from the founders to the contrary, and more important, I have a Holy Bible.

FYI Thomas Paine wasn't a citizen. You're welcome to post him if you want, but he was widely despised by the American founders during his time.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.