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What if I told you Patriotism is slavery?

The Russian Author of "War and Peace"

Patriotism in its simplest, clearest, and most undoubted meaning is for rulers nothing else but a means of realizing their ambitions and venal ends; for the governed it is a renouncing of human dignity, intelligence, and conscience, and a slavish submission to the rulers. Wherever patriotism is championed, it is preached invariably in that shape. Patriotism is slavery.

LEO TOLSTOY, The Open Court, Jul. 16, 1896

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Patriotism vs Nationalism

Joe Sobran wrote a column on Lew Rockwell called "Can You Laugh At Your Country" that addresses this subject perfectly. Check it out.

Patriot. Who is the father; Father Earth, Fatherland?

Who or what? It seems like government is claiming to be the father. Listen to your father or he'll whup ya.

The implied Father passed the P.A.T.R.I.O.T Act telling the patriot what dad expects.

A nation is what is born. Who was the the father? Who was the mother.

Is Griffin saying its our job is to make dad behave?

In the time of tribes and clan talk was in family terms.

Do these terms apply today?

Free includes debt-free!

What if?

You would be correct, that's what if.

blind allegiance..

Is not patriotism.

I am a patriot to our rights and constitution... not to the state.

I believe that is the difference.

'Peace is a powerful message.' Ron Paul

Are we created equal?

Or are some of us created to "govern" over others?
Self governance is the only thing we need. With our true acceptance of equality of creation, it becomes a little absurd to then surrender to "authority" which is set up without consent.
This does not mean that local, regional and even continental organizations will cease to exist, but in a truly open market, the person who paves the best roads for the best price gets voluntarily supported by those who use the service. Believe me, I would pay to have my local highway maintained by people who did a good job of it. I would NOT send money to Xe to defend me, or the CIA. I would join a local "citizens defense" group, although I'd be the lady who brought cookies... and I would volunteer for a local wellness clinic. Those who found my volunteer work of value could send me a little money for my efforts, or a grass calf or some hay - whatever.
Agorism, voluntaryism, self governance - whatever you want to call it. It is not about chaos. It is not about revolting. It is about loving. Love ourselves enough to accept the burden of our equality, not just clamor for the benefits, and loving each other.

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

Nobody wants what you're offering Anarchist.

There are no Anarchist societies for a reason.

Revolt, chaos, and destruction are your ONLY hope, not love. Anarchists have no love for people. They prey on people they see as "chattel" here to fund their pyramid scams. How many times have I had to listen to YOUR phony ass calling people chattel?


Anarchy and Voluntarism get replaced by something better. The whole world agrees, government is better than Anarchy, and if you could somehow create the chaos you need to get what you want, reality will prove that once again. Anarchists are worthless in defending their own liberty, because they never knew what threatened it in the first place and see people as "chattel".

My 4 upvotes to your 3 down votes says otherwise.

You are such a cute little troll. Arrogant and deliberately ignorant, all in one package!

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

I expect downvotes here Fishy.

The Daily Paul is an echo chamber where Anarchists go to die. I'm telling Anarchists they can profit by eating my turds. Do you think I'm fishing for thumbs up?

I'm surprised I haven't been banned.

Libertarians aren't welcome here. This place is for the "do what thou wilt" crowd, not for people interested in defending liberty.

The Whole World Agrees, Government is Better Than Anarchy?

Anarchism is not lawlessness, evil or corrupt. The ideology rejects the coercive State. It represents the height of individualist freedom. It is the most free expression of liberty that humanity has ever experienced. Thomas Paine once wrote, “The instant formal government is abolished, society begins to act. A general association takes place, and common interest produces common security.” (see: http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/20989.html ).

Murray Rothbard wrote an interesting article on the freedoms that anarchism offers to some early American societies (see: http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard107.html ) It flourished in Rhode Island and Pennsylvania for a number of years until government oppression overcame it. When you open the document, do a search on 'anar" and you can skim the Rothbard's writing quickly to get the gist of the article.

Here is another article on anarchism (see: http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/neill1.html ).

Here is another website that explains Anarchism (see: http://www.seesharppress.com/anarchismwhatis.html ).

I hope you reconsider your bias against anarchy.

I'm kind of curious, what do

I'm kind of curious, what do you say to those that read your stuff and say, "you know he might have a point here but he's really an ahole!"?

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

Anarchists don't deserve kindness.

I love that two faced liars and frauds see me as an asshole, better that than the way they see everyone else, as slaves, chattel, retards, sheep, and imbeciles.

Your enemies say as much

Your enemies say as much about you, probably more, than your friends!

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

I know. At least you can acknowledge that they are the enemy.

Anarchists are enemies of my country, it's people, the Constitution and the Republic.

The Daily Paul is where they tried to masquerade as Patriots, Constitutionalists, and Republicans.

Look at that picture of Ron Paul dressed up like a patriot next to "the superbrochure".

What a slave...

Well, if you're gonna let Tolstoy speak for you

I'll let these guys speak for me:
“To oppose corruption in government is the highest obligation of patriotism.” ― G. Edward Griffin
“My kind of loyalty was loyalty to one's country, not to its institutions or its officeholders. The country is the real thing, the substantial thing, the eternal thing; it is the thing to watch over, and care for, and be loyal to; institutions are extraneous, they are its mere clothing, and clothing can wear out, become ragged, cease to be comfortable, cease to protect the body from winter, disease, and death.” ― Mark Twain, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court
“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” ― Thomas Paine
And from the man himself:
“But let it not be said that we did nothing. Let not those who love the power of the welfare/warfare state label the dissenters of authoritarianism as unpatriotic or uncaring. Patriotism is more closely linked to dissent than it is to conformity and a blind desire for safety and security. Understanding the magnificent rewards of a free society makes us unbashful in its promotion, fully realizing that maximum wealth is created and the greatest chance for peace comes from a society respectful of individual liberty.”
― Ron Paul

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

Slave To Circumstance vs. Free Willy ?

“Each man lives for himself, uses his freedom to achieve his personal goals, and feels with his whole being that right now he can or cannot do such-and-such an action; but as soon as he does it, this action, committed at a certain moment in time, becomes irreversible, and makes itself the property of history, in which is has not a free but a predestined significance. ”

― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

I suspect Tolstoy's comments upon patriotism was less an exhortation to reject the parochial accidents of one's birth and to remove the shackles of tyrants exploiting propaganda and perhaps more to be understood in a nomological, ethical context and in light of his unique philosophy of history, as moral apology for the human condition viz. accountability.


To what is one a patriot?

It depends upon what one is a patriot of. Who is a patriot of the Union, of the president or any federal or state official? Probably, it's best to be a patriot of an idea such as a principle, or set of principles, such as one's state constitution. That is a good place to place one's allegiance.

~ Engage in the war of attrition: http://pacalliance.us/redamendment/

Blind allegiance to the State by victims of State aggression.

Patriotism is Stockholm Syndrome.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com

"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

Tolstoy is exactly right

IF you can't change your loyalty, then you are a slave.

The founders went from being British Patriots to American Patriots.

Were the confederates Patriots ?

Even if you decide your loyalty based on ideology - aas doug Casey says below, you have to be able to change your mind without any moral implications.

Otherwise, you are a slave to the group you are currently loyal to.

If that's the case

LEO TOLSTOY was a fool.

Patriotism is derived from the Greek word Patera meaning father.

Nations is derived from the Greek meaning ethnos (race).

One cannot have true patriotism without a common father. A nation has always been a racial/tribal construct.

Luke 3:38
Isaiah 43:3-5

This sounds kinda

Racist . . . blut und ehre


Leon Trotsky and his fellow band of murdering communist Jews coined the term 'racism'.

Starting to put the puzzle together...

Luke 3:38
Isaiah 43:3-5

Tolstoy neq Trotsky

But yeah, I know where you are going. Sadly the only way your puzzle fits together is if you leave out about 1/3 of world history - little things like the Roman Empire. I'm not Ironman88, you know.

ecorob's picture

You? strawman77? Calling something racist?

Now thats the pot calling the kettle black!

You are one of the most race-bating posters here. Don't make me prove it.

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

Really ?

Where do you get that idea ? Its not true at all.


from Greek idiotes literally "private person (as opposed to one taking part in public affairs)," used patronizingly for "ignorant person," from idios "one's own".

The Old Greeks scorned those who were "on their own".

I suppose patriots were not very tolerant of those that dismissed the collective as a damaging force.

I can't imagine a bunch of idiots fool enough to scorn a patriot's choice. There's no profit in trolling patriot's if they leave well enough alone.

Great quote! Thanks dex!

Free includes debt-free!

Idiot: "One who lives in Anarchist LaLa Land."

Like I said; the first books an Anarchist will try to burn are the dictionaries.

There's no profit in Anarchism when what you want is to live free, or defend liberty. An Anarchist doesn't know what threatens their liberty, nor can they defend their own liberty. What comes to take their liberty has them out-gunned and out-manned.

(The only way to profit being an Anarchist is through ByteTurd.)

"I suppose patriots were not very tolerant of those that dismissed the collective as a damaging force."

The collective can become an intensely damaging force, and unless you're ready to defend yourself from a collective which doesn't give a damn about your liberty, you have NO CHANCE.

Being an Anarchist doesn't get rid of what threatens your liberty. Anarchism doesn't get rid of mans covetous nature, violence, collective force, injustice, or tyranny. It merely leaves you no defense against what comes to take your liberty.

That's why they called you idiots.

Ha ha ha

"It merely leaves you with no defense against what comes to take your liberty". Okay, so if I'm free to use whatever means at my disposal in an anarchist society, but under government my guns are collected by your so-called protective collective... how do I defend myself against the protectors? Any form of government is a belief in an illusion... governments are just men, and usually corrupt men. Gangsters are more honorable than government, because at least they don't make you believe that they are honorable.

Try watching some LarkenRose.com videos.. he explains it very simply there, so even you may be able to get it.

What's at your disposal?

"Okay, so if I'm free to use whatever means at my disposal in an anarchist society"

What's at your disposal? Your gun? It won't be enough. You'll get rolled up like a bunch of "idiots".

Tell me about how your going to manage your army, how it was if formed and paid for, and who's issuing the orders.

Go watch Larking Poser videos? No thanks. I have NO DOUBT that "boars tit incorporated" will field no army that I'd need to worry about, and if they tried, it would become their new master.

"Gangsters are more honorable than government, because at least they don't make you believe that they are honorable."

That's why you end up getting ruled by gangsters and why Anarchists are worthless to liberty. When it comes to defending liberty, an Anarchist is as useful as a boars tit, a worthless nubbin of flesh that produces nothing of value.

No one would be ruled by Gangsters

The only reason gangsters are allowed to exist is because of government... government makes laws, and gangsters profit from those laws. Get rid of government, and you'll get rid of the profit margin of any gangsters.

It's okay, I understand, you think you need government to protect you, government to wipe your ass, government to feed you... what would you do without government?

As for defense, I would put my bets on 1 free man over a 1,000 slaves fighting him. The slaves would take one look at a real man, and realize what cowards they have been their whole lives. Go watch Braveheart... f'ing coward.

Boars tits are very useful for baby boars... it helps them get started in life.. I think you need a proverbial boars tit to help you grow up.

I hear your master calling.

Catchya l8r!

Free includes debt-free!