-1 vote

I Am Probably Out Of Here

All those times I tried to tell people "have a thick skin," and "don't take it personally," when someone attacked their religious beliefs (or lack thereof) or attacked them personally because they didn't agree with something they said, well it turns out I just hadn't been hit hard enough in the gut to understand.

I have been called a "close minded right winger" as well as a "communist" on this forum. I have had people attack me for not being a "true Christian" as well as attack me for being a "theo-slave." I have been attacked for being an "anarchist" as well as been attacked for being a "statist". Those attacks were all well and good, they didn't phase me a bit.

But now I can no longer participate on this forum, because I've been attacked where it hurts the most, you've insulted my wife, who is a consistent libertarian (more consistent, I might add, than the people attacking her) because she is in a financial position where she must use a government health care program to survive. Although she is on medicaid she believes in repealing the program, as well as the entire welfare state apparatus. That doesn't matter to you, you know who you are, you people down voted my request to not refer to her as a "leech." I said not one word that was anti-liberty, but you saw fit to be hypocrites who use government roads, government student loans, and government Social Security retirement payments, but believe your government program use is morally acceptable while hers is not.

Here is a link to my comment, if any one wishes to read it. You may decide for yourself whether or not you wish to condemn me:

http://www.dailypaul.com/282033/obamacare-imploding#comment-...

I don't like hypocrisy, whether in myself or others, and when it is a mean spirited hypocrisy, it is even worse. My wife Violet means everything to me, and you hypocrites have thrust a dagger through my heart by insulting her. I can't take it anymore. It is a waste of time trying to teach good will to people who wish to hate.

My thanks to the consistent anti-statists reedr3v, dabooda, and wolfe, and the true loving Christian bear, who have all treated me with kindness and respect even when we disagreed.

I may come back when I have cooled down, but right now, it is better that I work harder toward my family's survival instead of wasting time on people who desire to hate.



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I don't know what's happened but please think it over

We have been a family here and I hate to see anything like this happen to anyone. I'm surprised that you would get such feedback. Some may be high school kids being just kids. Try to take a rest and think it over. I hope you do come back. Try to love one another everyone. We have each other and we have to lift people up. The only one that should be getting bashed on is the NWO and the mafia government.

I've no beef with either of you.

However, over 900 hundred nutritional deficnecy diseases can be cured with proper supplementation.

A couple of years of daily shows diagnosing all manner of complaints. Maybe you can find some clues. I did.
http://ksco.com/dead-doctors-dont-lie

Free includes debt-free!

wolfe's picture

yet another one of my broken record rants.

You have had a vast majority of your wealth and income stolen from you by the government. It is NOT inconsistent with libertarianism to attempt to reclaim this money via crumbs that the government hands back in healthcare, welfare, etc.

NEVER feel guilty for getting some of you money back from the thieves.

The crime is in the theft, not in the reclamation. The government are the thieves, you are the victim.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

15,000 medicare patients killed every month.

Be wary! Free does not mean safe or effective.

Free includes debt-free!

Although I Hate The Welfare State

I have been trying to get it for my daughter who is going blind. She is racking up huge medical bills that we can't afford. We have been hard working tax paying fools for years. Even maxed out the social security requirements, and yet, turned down flat for welfare so far. Also, I had to leave my job, my home and family 3 years ago to move in with my 92 year old dad who's caregiver had cleaned out his bank account, trashed his house and run up huge bills in his name. I applied or "eldercare" benefits with the welfare department. I went for an interview and the whole room was full of people that had about a thousand kids, and could not speak English. They were getting welfare out the ying yang. I was laughed at by the social worker for having the NERVE to ask for help for a decorated veteran of not one, but TWO wars. How dare I? Go figure. Anyway, don't let anyone run you off. I worry more about the takeover of DP by the censor happy whoevers that seem to be in charge these days than people insulting me. I have had my share of insults. We all have.

skippy

I Would Be Willing To Bet

that at least one of the mods downvoted this comment. Hahaha.

skippy

Not the ole man. ;-)

-

Free includes debt-free!

I'm glad you decided not to leave.

I appreciate your commentary.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

From your brother in Christ and Liberty

mwstroberg,
You live in a broken world, you walk among the broken lives and spirits of others who you do not fully know. Whose stories you do not fully understand or can comprehend because only God has that ability. You too are broken and from what I have seen in your writings are a follower of Christ Jesus. That being said, you have been on the Daily Paul for over 5 years. The Daily Paul is a virtual space that was created by man for man in order to spread the good news of Freedom and Liberty. Some believe that Freedom and Liberty are our gift from God. Some believe that Freedom and Liberty were a great thing created by men with no inspiration from God. But we are all on here because one man, inspired by God put himself into the line of fire and took many many many “bullets” in the heart and absorbed the pain on our behalf so that the world would come to know who we are and what we stand for. Anything that may be said to you that seems hurtful is only hurtful because YOU ALLOW it to be. You have the freedom to either let things get to you OR first, look to your Savior as an example and do as he did. And second you have an example in Ron Paul when it comes to your political views. If he took things that were/are said to him or about him on a daily basis personally we would not have this forum.
I am sorry.. You need to understand that when you post ANY of your thoughts into the matrix that man created you will instantly become a target, whipping post and representative of whatever topic you discuss or support. And those that do not agree with you or a subject you support or defend will vent their anger at you because you have made yourself a target. You open yourself up to anyone in the world with internet access to see what you have said. What you say and post becomes a permanent part of internet history that does not go away. So the very act of logging onto this site and CHOOSING to post personal information comes with a general understanding that not everyone is going to feel for you or support you. In fact there are some people who are totally bored with their own lives that they find it funny to provoke you (or anyone) in order to get a reaction that they may find amusing.
Matthew 7:3-6
Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
Luke 10:19
I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.

Luke 10:19 is your shield. Use it because the arrows of the enemy will be shot at you by people that the enemy uses in order to break your spirit. Announcing “I quit” because your feelings are hurt only satisfies the enemies lust for your spiritual destruction. So pop the black balloons floating in your pity party, stop posting personal information and get out of the boat, trust in Christ and keep your eyes on HIM so you can walk right to him so he can calm the storm and you can be a positive example in the organization of the fight for Liberty.

Truth is treason in an empire of lies

Let your yea be yea and your

Let your yea be yea and your nay be nay... It's just the Internet. I must admit though the quality of this site swings wildly from time to time, right now it seems to be at the low end of the spectrum.

I was going to stay out of this thread because

what you do is your business. I actually think these 'goodbye' threads are written to generate sympathy and play the 'poor me' game. But I don't think you're being honest. I think you're still annoyed with the exchanges you had with people in ecard's thread about immigration and that caused you to go off on emalvini's thread.
http://www.dailypaul.com/281025/seems-like-many-here-are-spl...
You took a general statement in emalvini's thread and made it personal just like you're doing now by saying you're being attacked for being an anarchist when you admit you are an archist.
http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/3030975
You were given a fair amount of downvotes in that thread not only for your open borders position, but for several disparaging comments; like claiming those who want immigration laws enforced are 'anti-immigrant' and should "should just adore Barack Obama..."
And you tried to win arguments by saying things like this:
"How much you want to bet I'm whiter than you and speak English as well as you?"
http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/3030898
This actually stucks in my head because I couldn't believe anyone on this site would even consider writing something like that.
You even put up your 5 year 5 month membership as some kind of badge of honor that should be respected when you've been very quiet in recent months and you're therefore not a very recognizable name.
Your hubris has caused your angst. You need take time out to get over yourself.

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

That Comment

is just plain calloused. IMO. Maybe people just need to vent sometimes.

skippy

+10

I concur.

5 years, 5 months, 17 days.

5 years, 5 months, 17 days. That's how long your profile lists you as a member. I would have thought anyone on this site for that long would have thicker skin. I actually get your point and I would do WHATEVER it took to take care of my loved ones. But damn. Buck up, man. It's just one man's opinion on a website.

There are a lot of rude

There are a lot of rude comments made on this site as well as other Libertarian sites online. I wonder how many of them are trolls trying to tear the movement apart. I hope that's the case.

I find it mind boggling that Libertarians would be so rude to each other. I don't think they truly understand the idea of freedom at it's core. But I suppose that some think that just because we CAN say whatever we want, doesn't mean we should. The freedom doesn't mean we should be rude. In fact, I think the true idea of freedom is that we can be good despite our ability to be otherwise. The idea that we don't need government to force us to make good decisions but that we can respect each other enough to do it on our own. Even if it's for our own self interest.

If people truly understood that respectful behavior is in their own long and short term self interest, even despite the anonymity the internet gives us, we might see less of this behavior. It truly does hurt the cause of freedom when people look at disrespectful and rude behavior and think, if that's libertarianism, I don't want it. Instead we need to help people see that it's the most desirable state because we are choosing to be kind and considerate without anyone compelling us to do so.

If it's the libertarians being rude, you are only hurting yourself and our cause.

But then again, maybe it's just the trolls. If so, go away trolls. We won't let you destroy the cause of liberty.

Cyril's picture

I know. Yes, it's regrettable

I know. Yes, it's regrettable that even in the liberty camp these debates still occur, exhausting everybody.

I don't blame it on anyone. I understand the misery that big state creates puts everybody on the edge.

Honest, I understand how it's difficult to remain calm, mild, on either "side".

That's part of the statists' plan.

To make everybody envious, bitter, or both. And to ask for more state to nanny the people. Taking more from here, to redistribute there. Or pretending to take less from there to redistribute here. To "optimize" the "management". And make people feel they ought to be grateful to the planners for that.

Same old, same old. The sole purpose is to rip off everybody and enslave people while they're at it.

Bread and Circuses, also.

Disgusting, is it not?

Let us keep telling the youth, too:

http://www.dailypaul.com/280094/to-the-youth#Antagonisms

Peace.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

GOOOO LEECHESSS

down with the system, I don't care what you use, personally I think we should all apply for anything we can get just to blow up this bubble as hard as we can, this chick in the article is a fighter, she is stealing her money right back, screw the thieves. On the other hand you really are being a pussy. I did not read your whole article, and most prolly didn't either, it was annoying and pointless. Sounds like to me you couldn't figure out a good enough argument, felt embarrassed that you weren't "manly" enough to stand up for your wife and started throwing a hiss fit on this forum. Lets stick to politics, if you want to leave than do it, but quit crying to get attention when your not even going to leave.

You just got PAULED!

That's right.

That's right.

Are you

a man or a boy. I really don't give a hoot what was said or who said what. If you have strong views. Do you stick your tail between your legs and go whimpering away? Well a boy does. A man stands up for his convictions.

It's time! Rand Paul 2016!

"Truth, Justice, and the American Way!"

Welcome to the Internet

This may be as close to a troll-free zone as I've found on the internet, and its one of the few places I've actually had my mind changed and seen viewpoints I hadn't already heard.

You won't find a better bunch on the Internet than right here.

Author of Shades of Thomas Paine, a common sense blog with a Libertarian slant.

http://shadesofthomaspaine.blogexec.com

Also author of Stick it to the Man!

http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Man-Richard-Moyer/dp/1484036417

Divided and conquered.

The modern welfare state offers its citizens a choice of disgraceful roles: you can be a leech, or you can be a sucker (suck-e?) off whom the leeches feed. Not much of a choice. Among the worst features of the system is the way it sets us against one another: Like people who get sick and use "government funded" medical programs are the enemies of the people who are forced to pay for them. Like the poor folk who cross borders looking for a better life -- without asking some "government" for permission-- are the enemies of people who already live there. Like people who put their children in government schools are the enemies of people who have no children but who are forced to pay property taxes which fund schools.

Honest and peaceful folk DO have enemies: those who rob, extort and murder them . . . the worst of whom name themselves "government," and play divide-and-conquer games to set their victims squabbling amongst themselves while the villains loot them all.

Don't leave, Mark. Once you understand the zero-sum game of "government," and how it's played, you'll realize that the folks giving you a hard time DON'T understand, and could use your help to figure it out.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition by Larken Rose

Great to hear you chime in, booda

Your analysis of the constant battle we are all fighting against our true enemies (fear and ignorance, NOT despised groups of people) is always spot on, in that you see it as a battle between human good will and human hatred.

Like fishy has done so many times, I guess I never really left. I am encouraged by the responses here. My original comment has reached zero in +-, which considering it was down by six at one point, is pretty good news.

To be honest, I deserve everything I get. Like many libertarians, Ayn Rand was an early influence in my intellectual development, and there was a time in my life many years ago when I too, looked down (hypocritically) on those who were dependent on the government for their livelihoods. MaxK, if you are listening, I know you don't like the word Karma, but, it really is a b*tch (and I agree it is the hand of God acting).

Take care people, always temper your religious or ideological fervor with a little humility and common sense.

Drawing battle lines

I do NOT view social problems as battles between good will and hatred.

Most people "mean well." They want "what's best" for themselves, their families, friends, neighbors, countrymen -- the whole world. Where they differ is in their definition of what constitutes "what's best" -- and most particularly in the means they feel justified in using to achieve "what's best."

May I recommend to you, and anyone else who's interested, a short essay by David Friedman called "Love Is Not Enough". This essay radically changed the way I see the world -- and the way in which I define my personal battle lines.

Whatever people mean by "what's best" is determined by their personal moral code. What Friedman'e essay made me realize is that while personal moralities are endlessly various and often changeable, the means by which we can deal with other people to achieve our purposes is limited to only three choices: we can trade, steal or beg. (Government is NOT a fourth option; it is institutionalized coercion).

I am not concerned with what people use for their moral codes, or with what they do in their private lives with consenting partners. Worship any god you like, or none. Love as you will. Do anything you like with your own body, your own property or your own time. Your morality is your own affair . . . up to a point.

That point is: when your action impacts another person. At that point it falls into the very specific subdivision of morality which I call "ethics," which describes and defines the "proper" ways human beings should deal with one another.

Some people believe it is ethically proper to use force to achieve their purposes. Name them "thieves" and "thugs". Fortunately, such folk are a small minority. Unfortunately, many people believe it is ethically proper to use force to achieve their purposes -- through the magical machinery called "government." Name them "statists." For the most part, statists would be very offended to be called thieves or thugs, because they have been indoctrinated (K-!2) into the purely superstitious belief that "government" enjoys a special moral status, which turns murder into "foreign policy" or "war." It turns theft into "monetary policy" and "taxation." It turns enslavement into "regulation" and "conscription." And it turns abject obedience to your slavemaster into "your patriotic duty."

Educating statists (some of whom consider themselves "libertarians") to the ethical realities underlying "government" is my major aim here on the DP. Persuading them to read Larken Rose's book, The Most Dangerous Superstition, is my favored educational tool.

For myself, I hold to the ethical principle that trade and love are proper means for people to deal with one another -- and coercion is not. Ever.

So you see, it isn't hatred that I count as my enemy -- my enemy is the ethical belief that coercion should ever be used against honest, peaceable folk. That belief is what Larken names "The most dangerous superstition." I'm out to kill it. There's my battle line.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition by Larken Rose

The system makes victims out

The system makes victims out of countless people. Sure there are leeches that would rather collect checks than work but there are also people in true survival mode that are doing what they can to survive.

We are working hard to overthrow this system and work to a world that people can earn a living and not depend on the state. Many facets of our society such as legalizing hemp, returning to a sound currency and ending the wars and occupations need to change. Until this happens however, people are still losing and becoming destitute. If you are in that situation you do what you need to survive, letting someone you love die due to pride is not going to end the current system we live in. Activism and enlightening people to a new way of life is.

To mwstroberg, just tally up all the income tax you have forcibly taken from you over all the years you have worked that you could have saved for emergencies like the one you are in, I am sure it is more than the amount of your Wife's Medicare.

We all share this eternally evolving present moment- The past and future only exist as inconsequential mental fabrications.

I would hope you do not leave

I would hope you do not leave over the ignorance of a few. ive read some of the comments in the other thread and im quite sure people have a rather skewed understanding of their place within this system that we all participate in (quite willingly as it turns out).

no one will ever understand your position without being in it. I used to think down on the folks who would milk their unemployment insurance benefits for the maximum term. Its only until recently ive found myself out of work and in a job market that is decidedly worthless, relying on UI benefits just to make sure that i dont get the rug pulled out from under me. I know other good DPers that had to rely on it in the past as well.

so let the judgers rot with their hatred cause i surely could care less, i would defend your decision to encourage your loved ones to take advantage of whatever benefits you can qualify for. They will exist with or without your participation. And if our movement ever believes it will reach some level of critical mass with this type of behavior they have another thing coming.

Having said that - srs, i think your thread title should be something more like "how dare you judgmental **** ....", i was thinking i was going to comment on how i could care less until i read your post.

Boo Hoo

If you don't want people to talk negatively about your wife, then maybe you should refrain from discussing your wife and her personal situation on an open forum. Where do you get off thinking that you can dictate to others how they are permitted to respond to personal information that you give them about anything? To top it off, when someone has an opinion that you dislike about the information that you divulged to them, you threaten to take your ball and leave. Grow up. You are not entitled to dictate how others react to anything.

I guess I'm not alone

Double

Post

I guess I'm not alone

The government has destroyed

The government has destroyed our economy and our money supply. They have partnered with their croneys to make medical care impossible to afford for the average person. What are your options then? Use them or die.

My question is, which one of you would watch your wife die before getting her help the only possible way she can get it? I wouldn't. Im 100% against the welfare state, but letting your wife or child die to proove that point isn't going to stop the machine. Infact, the more people who milk the system, knowing full well what it is and desiring nothing more than its destruction, the faster it will collapse and a free market will arise to take its place.

I imagine if every one of us took advantage of every possible welfare program available in full concious knoweldge of exactly what we were doing, we could collapse this bullshit bankester economy pretty fast.

Didn't know there were so many happy slaves on the DP

But here they are in droves.

We shouldn't attack each

We shouldn't attack each other on the DP *period*