31 votes

Where Is The Arrest Warrant And Evidence That He Did Anything? Deeply Disturbing

Part of the deep problem this country has is a complete lack of knowledge of the basics of our rights and court system. People aren't taught it in schools anymore on purpose, and are completely ignorant of what their basic rights are. Witness the answer to the following question.

"Since when does law enforcement have to prove guilt to the public? Isn't that the job of the courts?"

They need at least SOME evidence to go to a judge and get an arrest warrant.

Due process wasn't followed.

You can only arrest someone if you are following them after seeing a crime committed. Otherwise, you go to a judge, state the evidence that makes it seem likely the person committed a crime, and get an arrest warrant.

I have seen no newspaper account of arrest warrants issued or what information was given to a judge to lead him to believe there was a sufficient cause for an arrest warrant should be issued. The fact that they've been calling them suspects the whole time means there wasn't any evidence to get an arrest warrant, because they were called suspects.

Suspects are people you want to question, but you don't know enough to get an arrest warrant yet. YOU DO NOT USUALLY SHOOT AT SUSPECTS. These guys immediately started shooting. Without enough evidence to get an arrest warrant.

This is why he is now suddenly "an enemy combatant". There is no evidence, and no arrest warrant. Due process wasn't followed from the get go. So call them enemy combatant and claim you don't need an arrest warrant. This is the real reason, not "reading them their Miranda rights", which is pretty much small nonsense. They didn't have enough evidence to even convince a judge that they were anything but suspects.



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A thread dedicated to why cops can't issue arrest warrants

Dedicated since this thread is now old - they've issued a criminal complaint (7 days later).

You can't just start using armed force against someone, fill the whole city with cops and military armed to the teeth, and then claim you are in "hot pursuit" three days after the fact.

Some people will justify anything.

And the point is - it would have cost them nothing to go to a judge to get an arrest warrant if they had any evidence.

You may sacrifice your own freedom, but I do not give you permission to sacrifice mine.

And sadly this isn't a new situation - it happens without worrying Americans who are lazy because it's happening to someone else. But here, it's part of shutting down a whole city under martial law. Arrest warrants - things of the past? Search warrants - for everyone in Boston - thing of the past? Not using military in the United States for police - thing of the past? Federal government not having jurisdiction in a State - thing of the past?

Happy birthday America? Are you happy? Happy birthday America?

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

He's now been formely

He's now been formely charged, 7 days after the fact, after the cops got involved in a firefight with the suspects - only!, killing one, alleging they robbed a 7-11 on the news (which was false), Looking for multiple different suspects with different names, descriptions, and numbers involved, locking down the city of Boston with the military, and going home to home searching people's Holmes - without search warrants, on America's birthday.

So they got a criminal complaint finally! And he's not going to be an enemy combatant and get some of his rights!

But it's in federal jurisdiction, and all these crimes were in the State of Massachusetts. And for "a weapon of mass destruction".

http://www.dailypaul.com/283014/the-formal-charge-against-dz...

Meanwhile, the FBI has released the Rician suspect as actually not guilty.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Moxnews clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fBnL-5CI-I

This video reveals a lot of information. I still don't know how to embed. According to the Michael Isikoff, NBC News National Investigative Correspondent:

+ "Federal prosecutors have been preparing criminal charges..."
+ "Not an indictment but a criminal complaint backed up by an affadavit [sworn statement] by an FBI Agent..."
+ "The complaint will want to tie the suspect to the bomb..."
+ "We were waiting for it [a copy of the affadavit], we were told we were going to get it yesterday and last night we were told it would likely be coming this morning. We're all waiting to see that."

Regarding the lack of Miranda Rights:

+ "What the Justice Department is saying is they want to use this special high value target investigation team to question him without reading him his Miranda Rights under what's call the 'public safety exception.' That has been defined as 48 hours..."
+ "The ACLU and the Federal Public Defenders Office here in Boston expect to represent Tsarniev are challenging that.."
+ "The longer this goes on, where he can't speak or communicate, could weaken the gov't's case..."

Michael Nystrom's picture

Shooting at police officers and throwing bombs at them

constitutes a crime. The officers don't need to go to a judge for warrant for that. You said this in your own OP:

You can only arrest someone if you are following them after seeing a crime committed.

He's the man.

That happened three days later, Violation of due process

That's an alleged incidence, and one for which they haven't been charged. Yes, for that, they haven't been charged. The 7-11 incident didn't happen, one witness says they killed the older brother.

The cops were armed to the teeth looking for people they didn't have an arrest warrant for.

At what point it becomes "legal" doesn't really matter now. Did it become legal this Monday when they actually entered a criminal complaint and got a judge to issue a warrant? Did it become legal Thursday, when they provoked them to attack? Would it have been legal if they declared them enemy combatants, without rights (which seems to have been the whole point, because they didn't have an arrest warrant).

Because it's a violation of due process and protected rights of Americans no matter when it became part of the legal way of doing things. You can't go around hunting up suspects with guns without an arrest warrant. That's why there is separation of powers. A judge determines if the cops have enough evidence to call them "terrorists" and issue an arrest warrant, not the cops.

The cops acted like they had the power to arrest these suspects the whole time, and shut down the city of Boston if they liked - they do not. The evidence they had must stink if they didn't go to a judge first - they had plenty of time to - THREE DAYS.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

And by the way, if he has a

And by the way, if he has a fair legal proceedings and this isn't just all fake, I expect the federal charges to be dropped, and the FBI to take the blunt of the above actions, leaving Massachusetts relatively taint free.

The Ricen suspect they just released today. Someone set him up to take the fall for it.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Using force against innocents is criminal.

In Scorsese's Departed the "good" cop takes out the bad State Trooper (Damon). We all watched the movie, we knew who the rat was and who he had killed.

Vigilante justice by officials can not be justice, it rejects the possibility of ignorance of innocence.

We all point to our youtubes or mimic the TV. We've seen the movie. We can imagine that gives us the power to judge with immunity. But...

Andrew Napolitano carefully explained the judge's role as the gatekeeper of the evidence given in Court.

Daily Paul is a gatekeeper of sorts though I find myself oft distracted or misdirected.

What seems clear the Fog of War moved into Boston, displacing rule of Law. Life sucks it's a jungle, dog eat dog.

War comes home, there "is no fight them over there." Who them?

What are the ramifications of a culture that falls from "We're great, You suck!" to War is hell.

Problem is I don't know what justice is. But I am certain it is a "good" missed.

Some ideas can be best noticed when absent.

Free includes debt-free!

I think a person of interest

I think a person of interest is someone you question and a warrant is for a suspect. Just saying.

Where is the arrest warrant?

Where is the arrest warrant?

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Is there proof there isn't

Is there proof there isn't one?

If there isn't one than they have one now. Reported last night...they will be charging him today. Did they need one while they were in pursuit?

The criminal complaint was

The criminal complaint was filed Monday - 7 days later, after everything you saw on TV.

http://www.dailypaul.com/283014/the-formal-charge-against-dz...

Yes, there wasn't one.

The question isn't "You can't prove we don't have an arrest warrant" when cops shut down an entire city under martial law.

The question is "Where is the damn arrest warrant?".

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

But you aren't a criminal when you are just a suspect

But you aren't a criminal when you are just a suspect.

You can't flee as a suspect to the Boston Marathon bombings, because without an arrest warrant, you don't have to stay and talk to the police. They don't have to stay and talk. Where is the arrest warrant?

And the story about robbing a 7-11, providing an excuse to shoot them for something else, was false.

I sure hope you don't think this is ok when a cop does it to you. Because the whole point of arrest warrants is to prevent cops from shooting whoever they "feel" might be guilty.

They had over 2-3 days to get an arrest warrant on these two brothers. The names and numbers of suspects kept changing, they clearly didn't have any idea who did it, they were just suspects.

You don't start shooting at just suspects. But I'll witness to you that cops act just that way in non-terrorist situations. In fact, there is a case within 20 miles of me where a cop shot an unarmed suspect on a bicycle in the back, because he wouldn't talk to him. No crime, no entitlement that he had to talk to the cops.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

I'm not sure they need an

I'm not sure they need an arrest war rent to stop a crime in action.

Under the American system

And for the 2-3 days before that, why didn't they get an arrest warrant for them for the Boston Marathon bombings?

You know, starting an incident so you can shoot them instead of not getting an arrest warrant isn't American.

This wasn't a short timeframe. It was 2-3 days.

And then calling them enemy combatants because you want to conceal the fact, instead of giving them due process. Under the American system, who the liar is is who is not keeping their oaths of office to uphold the constitution. This is an actual police state third world country situation - the cops determine guilt, shoot the suspects, no due process needed.

You can pin anything on anyone with those standards.

And they still haven't gone to a judge with their evidence.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Do you know for fact they did

Do you know for fact they did not get warrants? I haven't seen anything on this.

That's exactly right. For 5

That's exactly right. For 5 days, reporters and people have been asking for the evidence that they did it, which is what an arrest warrant has, after a cop goes to a judge and the *judge* decides if there is enough evidence to issue an arrest warrant.

You are right. That isn't there. And you need one to arrest someone. Part of the constitution and our rights from our legal heritage - it ensures that cops don't just decide someone is guilty and needs arresting, a *judge* does. Separation of powers.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

I'm wondering though if that

I'm wondering though if that applies while they are in pursuit.

Example: you are robbing a bank. Do the cops need to get a warrant while you are robbing a bank? No.

Cops where called after two men carjacked a vehicle and killed a campus officer. Cops track down the suspects. Suspects resist and throw pipe bombs out the windows of vehicle and fire shots...injuring another officer. While in pursuit, one suspect gets away while the other dies. There is a massive manhunt for second suspect...because he is considered armed and dangerous.

Without speculation lets just consider this. The two guys were considered suspects for a huge bombing...for whatever evidence the FBI has. Hours after releasing their photos to the public, the suspects go on a crazy crime spree, carjacking, killing an officer, and throwing explosives out of the car windows...potentially injuring and/or killing others. If this is deemed true...we've got 4 dead including 1 officer and 1 child, plus 180 wounded people including the dude who got his legs blown off. These guys were dangerous. All this considered...remember...without speculation...perhaps we should be relieved they were stopped.

It was reported last night that suspect # 2 is going to be formally charged. He'll get his due process.

Pointless Post - "hot pursuit"

This is a pointless point, because they didn't have the authority to corner them in the first place.

It doesn't become hot pursuit 3 days after the fact. That's pretty cold.

If that incident occurred. They haven't been charged with that yet. And the incident as alleged keeps changing like gossip - since allegations by the government or media without charges filed before a judge ARE gossip.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

It's a hot pursuit when an

It's a hot pursuit when an officer gets killed and a car gets carjacked.

And this occurred when? And

And this occurred when?

And why were they trying to arrest them then?

And you are aware, that it is legal to shoot cops that are doing things illegal, right? For instance, in Indiana, if a cop enters your home without a search warrant, you can shoot them.

*End of discussion* You know the facts, and you don't care. They issued the first criminal complaint 7 days later. They stalked them with the military well before that, and well before the incident you keep mentioning. I won't talk to someone that isn't honest.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

They're trying to make it like the MOVIES---

that's why some people cheered mindlessly. >b?But, let's not get excited. There were only a handful of people, PROBABLY those they planted to cheer, all conveniently located as they head back to the respective offices. If it had been their sorry a--sses, they wouldn't be smiling. Those people don't think beyond the end of their noses. The rest of the people in the neighborhoods that were terrorized obviously weren't out there jumping up and down!! They were traumatized.

Tamerlan WAS arrested, stripped & seen getting INSIDE the squad car. Then, someone contacts the policeman in charge & gets him to release him. Think about this. If that happened to you, your adrenaline would shoot sky high!! He was handcuffed BEHIND HIS BACK, for God's sake. There was nowhere he could go safely.

I don't know about you, but I would instinctively know they were going to murder me!

Just stop talking to people

Just stop talking to people that keep repeating the same thing over and over again. It's a well known marxist trick to make it seem like a discussion is legimate when it's not.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Fourth Amendment"The right

Fourth Amendment
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

All the evidence that the people have been asking for, showing probable cause, and who is sought to be arrested, should be there with the oath and affirmation.

Instead, not only did the "suspects" not have an arrest warrant, the entire city of Boston was put down on lockdown - on America's birthday, and everyone's house was also searched without search warrants.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

I think they were calling them ...

... "suspect" rather than "person of interest" right away. But I don't know if that means they have to get an arrest warrant to talk with him. Maybe they do; I don't know if that is or is not the case.

But if we go with the gov't story for a moment, then if they car jacked somebody, then the cops would be in hot pursuit at that time, and I don't think they would need a warrant.

Once #2 shot back, they would claim that he is resisting arrest plus involved in a car jacking, so I still think a warrant would not be needed.

If you know differently, let me know because I would like to know that, too.

But Miranda, that is a WHOLE different ballgame. The US Supremes have been EXCEEDINGLY clear that "no Miranda, no case."

Of course, they have done this on purpose for this very reason -- to force the hand of the Supremes to destroy rights of Americans anytime the gubmint CLAIMS somebody did a "very bad thing."

The tyrant class wants to take things to the next step, which is to bring Gitmo home to "USA! USA!"

*** Here's an idea: Maybe this is all about having a sufficiently "bad" case to bring to the courts to defend the existence of NDAA.

Self defence

#2 self defence is not a crime if some one is shot at he should have the right to shoot back. in my opinion

does it matter, if a

does it matter, if a government treats you as guilty then you must be guilty

we dont need to see proof, why would you want to change that

/s

edit
"something a sheep would say?"
notice the /s......sarcasm

The really disturbing thing

was how the public's rights were violated during the search for one 19 yr old kid. this was clearly a show of force for the public. There was not this much police presence in Boston during the busing riots.

Second, the fact that this kid was not given miranda rights is outrageous.

But an arrest warrant ? C'mon, at minimum the kid shot at police.

Yes, an arrest warrant, or they should not have been looking for

him.
THERE WERE MORE THAN TWO BOMBS. Try to let that fact get past all the media mind control.

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

Don't You Get It?

This is a police state. Did you see this post? They trampled rights all day.

http://www.dailypaul.com/282619/28-still-photos-of-what-mart...

I expected them to catch the kid right at prime news time just like scripted. Welcome to the Truman Show!

skippy

I haven't been able to follow this story very closely

as I have little ones and don't want them seeing it, but from what I have heard, weren't they shooting at the cops and such? That is a crime in itself sufficient for an arrest.

I agree with you though OP, people aren't taught about these things. On purpose. I just think it's a game changer when people are held hostage and violence is used.

Do you know what I mean?

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
-Thomas Paine