34 votes

How We are Using Gold as Money in Utah.

I've been extremely excited to share this with the Daily Paul because we are on the cusp of something historic and transforming. Since the State Utah legalized Gold and Silver as money, as the Constitution stipulates, we are now able to pay and get paid in Gold. The following Articles will explain how you can do it too.

Some recent History about Gold and Silver as Money:

The Gold Bullion Coin Act of 1985 signed by Ronald Reagan allowed for American Gold Eagles, the American Silver Eagle, and other minted Gold and Silver coins from the U.S Treasury to be legal tender at their face value.( http://www.usmint.gov/pressroom/legislation/Public_Law_99-18... )This is federally recognized legal tender. A fifty dollar Gold Eagle is fifty legal tender dollars. The coins, when purchased, were to help pay down the national debt.

In 2010 Utah became the first state to legitimize and recognize Gold and Silver U.S. Legal Tender that can be used as money in the State The measure eliminated state capital gains or other taxes on the coins. Currently there are 12+ states with similar legislation trying to pass the same laws towards these legal tender coins.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-08/trust-in-gold-not-b...

Now for the good part. If you want to use American Gold Eagles (AGE) as money and get paid in Legal Association here in Utah has created a way to do it. A person can contribute Federal Reserve Notes (FRN's) into this Association and it is held in Escrow. They then will dollar cost average and purchase Gold dollars into your account over a 30 day period or sooner if you desire. By dollar cost averaging the purchase of Gold it can help smooth out the up and downs of the Gold market.

This Association has a bill pay service for your convenience. They are legally responsible for any bills you want to have them pay. When they pay your bills (for a small fee) they subtract the amount of gold dollars from your account. So if you use your credit cards to purchase items, pay your bills, etc you can tell the Association to pay your bills. They, not you, are sending them FRN's. Your account of Gold is subtracted in it's Gold dollar equivalent. If you pay your bills to someone in Gold you have no transaction fee.

A Gold dollar is defined as 1/50th of an American Eagle (22 karat) or American Buffalo (24 karat) coin. A Gold Cent is one hundredth of a Gold Dollar. These definition help understand the transactions in Gold.

The Gold purchased or deposited is 100% insured and is held in a Brink's vault. It is redeemable as long as you have at least 50 dollars in Gold to redeem. If you don't have 50 gold dollars and want to redeem your money, they can round to the nearest silver dollar.

You can register as a merchant who accepts Gold as payment and can get paid directly in Gold by other members.

I will take the time to explain how we got this going and more details if there is interest.

End of Part One:



Trending on the Web

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Your missing the crucial point.

The association is taking the Gold as payment. They are contractually obligated to pay your bills.. They take the payment in Gold.. they do the conversion to FRN's and pay the bills from their account. Does that make sense? You only deal in Gold. They are your mediator so you can use Gold and Silver Dollars. They paid $1400, you paid $50. It's a bill pay service if you want it summed up in a one sentence. That is why this is historic and awesome.

what about the irs? sounds

what about the irs?
sounds like a nightmare accounting wise.

wolfe's picture

That's the point.

You pay taxes on face value to the IRS. The IRS has actually lost that case in court. I am not sure if there were followups to what I read on that along time ago, though.

So you pay your employee $50 in face value. He get's a weeks salary or whatever, and only pays taxes on the $50. But clearly, it is worth a lot more. As ridiculous of a loophole as it sounds (and you MAY end up defending the point in court against the IRS), it is their own absurdities which have created it.

They will close it eventually, somehow.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

The coins are NOT worth more than $50.

They ARE worth more than 50 Federal Reserve Notes. (with the words "ONE DOLLAR" on the notes)

A Federal Reserve Note is NOT and NEVER has been a "dollar."

THIS is the crux of the ENTIRE issue with our economy.

This is not semantic nitpicking, it IS the issue.

We are NOT using dollars anymore. We are using banker's paper in PLACE OF those dollars.

That banker paper does not have the same value as the real dollars. THAT is the problem.

The 'loophole' is that U.S. Law says BOTH are 'legal tender' at their face value, when obviously one has no where NEAR that value. (the paper)

People are just now beginning to realize how to use that law to their advantage - do business in real dollars, then pay the IRS in depreciated paper and the IRS HAS to take it at face because the law says they have to. (even though Congress had no authority to pass such a law - I'd love to see the IRS make THAT argument!)

Are you referring to the Kahre case?

A Nevada businessman, Robert Kahre had been paying his employees with legal tender US gold coins and reporting employee wages to the IRS based on the face value of the coins. Kahre had been doing this for seven years at the time of his arrest, and had assisted 35 other contracting companies to do the same.

On September 17, 2007, and to the disbelief of the IRS and DOJ, the case ended with zero convictions. In post-trial statements from jurors, many said that the government had failed to prove that the defendants had acted to intentionally violate tax laws.

But the champagne fizz and euphoria did not last long. In May 2009, Kahre once again stood before a jury of his peers in a second trial. Three months later, on August 14, 2009, Kahre and three other defendants were found guilty of several felony tax crimes, including conspiracy to defraud the IRS and tax evasion.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig12/brekke2.1.1.html

wolfe's picture

Yes, that was it...

I knew at some point the IRS would win.

Thanks for the followup.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

i already asked the IRS about

i already asked the IRS about this situation. you must treat gold or silver as property, and because of that, you always go by the market value for all transactions; the face value is irrelevant (except when you try to pay them with gold or deposit gold into a bank, then the face value is used).

That is incorrect info from the IRS.

Depending on the context of the holding.

If you are PAID or you PAY at face, then the book value IS face.

If you buy at market or you exchange for market, then the book value is market.

The IRS can lie to you with no reprecussions.

They can also give you a partially correct answer that benefits the government even though it isn't the entire truth. (leaving out the part that benefits you)

The IRS can no more dismiss or ignore the legal tender at face laws than they can the tax laws.

The question that determines which value is used is, "was the coin tendered as money at face, or was it tendered as an asset at market?"

In Utah it is Money.

The point of the legal tender act Utah recognized Gold and Silver Minted by the Treasure of the United States (that is the KEY point here) as Federally recognized legal tender. They may not recognize "gold and sliver" as anything but property, but Gold and Silver Dollars minted by the U.S. Treasury are recognized as Legal Tender and are considered Dollars. That's why when you read them it says Fifty dollars, Ten dollars, one Dollar etc..

Some explaination.

I believe one of the reasons he lost was because they were paying people in gold and silver dollars for only a few minutes. I believe on payday in one line they were going through the motions of getting paid in Gold and Silver dollars but then they would immediately convert them back to FRN's in another line. So ultimately they were still paid in FRN's. If you only receive Gold dollars and use gold dollars for your transactions it would be a totally different scenario. Having your State that recognizes Gold dollars as money is helpful too.

Yep, that's what happened in a nutshell.

It was the proof the IRS needed to show a jury that he was acting to "defraud the United States government."

wolfe's picture

I will have to disagree with this.

He lost because no one will ever win. You can't win against the IRS. They make the rules, so if there is a rule that makes them wrong, they will change the rule.

That one case actually surprised me at the time (that he won). But it makes sense to me now (because of course he didn't).

Can't win by playing their games. The only win, is to do all cash transactions, under the table, and simply keep your money to yourself.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

Not true.

A plumber/business owner in CA had his case dropped by the IRS, I believe 26 years or so ago. He was taking FRN's and exchanging them (at a loss) for Gold dollars. He only uses Gold and Silver Treasury dollars as money. I believe he pays taxes in Gold and silver dollars to the IRS in Ogden, Utah as a result.

Another Group in Idaho (with a lawyers help) does something similar with his clients..

The big difference in Utah is that we have Legalized and recognized the minted Gold and Silver Coins from the Treasury and have that protection on top of the Legal arguments. As far as we know the Legal side of this is sound. I believe the Association is hoping to get a case in court to set precedence.

It truly is time to fix and protect our money.

bump

and more bump

Life is great with Isagenix
www.memefor.isagenix.com
scdistributionmn@gmail.com
Sabamiki

Interested

.

I guess I'm not alone

I'm interested

.

.

Hear, O Israel: YHUH our God YHUH one. And thou shalt love YHUH thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

I don't think people get this yet..

Everyone wants to use Gold as money and in Utah we've found a way.. Why is this not getting any attention? Weird..

I for one am only slightly interested because I don't care for

the Utah approach.

It's way more complicated than it needs to be and it doesn't expose the true issue.

It does this by mixing in market and face value and creating convoluted rules for handling them both.

The reality is that Federal Reserve Notes are NOT dollars. The Utah law does not seem to be cognizant of this fact. Not only does it not acknowledge this, but it treats the coins with the presumption that their face value is nominal and not real, that a 'dollar' is really worth much less than 1/50 an ounce of gold or one ounce of silver. Technically, a 'dollar' is defined in terms of silver and is 371.25 grains of pure silver. (about .7734 of a troy ounce)

Thus both the American Eagle series of gold and silver coins have face value LESS than their actual content even in terms of the official definitions. This is just another example of how Congress mucks up our money instead of keeping with a stable weight and standard. (they did something similar in 1871 which eventually led to several depressions and the creation of the FED)

In short, the Utah law does not attempt to make gold and silver coin legal tender, but attempts to make gold and silver coin - AS ASSETS - legal tender.

it requires effort

is my guess

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein