Just saw the movie Jesus Camp...

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I know this isn't exaclty about the good Dr., but Ive learned that you fine people I can trust very much and so can maybe enlighten me a little. I just saw the movie Jesus Camp last night, a documentary about Evangelical Christians. I am jewish and have many catholic and christian friends but dont really know any Evangelicals. However I am learning that there are quite a great deal of Evangelicals in this fine country and would just like someone to clear up for me if theyre all really as absolutely nuts and hardcore as this movie made it seem. If so I am quite frightened of the country we are living in now, but I am hoping that as with most documentaries this was highly exaggerated. (to all evangelicals reading, this is not a post meant to insult, but rather to gain some knowledge on the matter.)

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There are Crazy People in Every Religion/Ideology

I am an "evangelical" Christian, and I have watched Jesus Camp. Heck, I went to camps kind of like that as a kid. You have to understand that Christianity, like any religion, has variants ranging from moderate to radical. I'm sure as Jew, you understand the difference between Jews who are only Jewish in name, some who practice some of the religion and pretty radical zionist-types as well.

The evangelicals in the movie, however, do represent a sizable population of evangelicals in this country. Before the last 20 years or so, these people kept to themselves and out of politics. However, the GOP (to a major extent), has "politicized" them and convinced them to engage in politics with the same zeal they have for religion. This situation is somewhat alarming.

For the most part, they are still active on only a few issues: abortion, homosexuality and religious freedom (homeschooling, etc...). But they are rapidly being expanded by the GOP into terrorism, civil liberties and even price and wage controls. This I think is more unsettling.

However, parallel to this, is a major reformation of protestantism. There are many of us who have embraced a separation of church and state. My site, for example, has been a magnet for such people and we have about 200 people who discuss, write and blog about these issues. We're all Christians who are dedicated to our beliefs, but we also shun the politicization of our religion.

If this thread doesn't turn out a lot of answers for you, I encourage you to ask us there. Almost all of us also support Ron Paul.

Beautifully said, Suzan!

There are Christians and then there are Christians.

We call ourselves a Christian country and then we go stomping people all over the world. Jesus never stomped anyone except the money-changers and they deserved it.

Proud member of Ron Paul's Revolution

Evangelicals are a mixed bag (speaking as one )

Many are pro- Israel, the vast majority are pro-life, but we are divided on some areas of theology. Some of us are more knowledgeable on issues of politics- some of us are even Libertarian leaning. I attend a Evangelical Presbyterian (PCA) church (but have serious disagreements with them on Israel and the Jewish People). I also attend (no offense, hopefully) a Messianic Jewish congregation that has many members who are open to Ron Paul's message.
The definition of Evangelical has changed from a belief in the truth of Scripture to a belief in the 'doctrine of men', in many people's eyes. (including mine, but I am not offended to be called an Evangelical (in the Classical sense- !st Century Christianity).

Libera me, let the truth break, what my fears make--Leslie Phillips

But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers

There is no difference between an authoritarian government from the right or the left...F. A.Schaeffer

As every other Religions theres the good and bad

Try doing a research on the pastor John Hagee theres some rapture videos on U- tube these people like hagee are deranged lunitics

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent" Thomas Jefferson

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent" Thomas Jefferson

I saw jesus camp about 6

I saw jesus camp about 6 months ago, scary flick every one needs to see.
After seeing it you know whay huck has a following. Our country is breeding war mongers that want to dominate the world.

Live Free or Die.

Please be careful not to stereotype

I am a Christian who is "evangelical," which used to mean, "belief in the bible." The word "evangelical" now means something else, and it isn't pretty.

I am a serious follower of Jesus, (like Ron Paul) and I know other Christians who are like me, who do not agree with "The Religious Right, " or the lifestyle/theology depicted in "Jesus Camp."

Not all people who profess faith in Jesus are true followers of him. Don't be deceived, and please, please please, for the sake of all of us true Christians who support Ron Paul, and for Dr. Paul himself, do not stereotype all Christians and dump them into one group, like the Jesus Camp people. There are many who call themselves Christians who are not, and they make all of us true believers look bad. Believe me, you have to take all of us as individuals.

This Book Might Give You Some Insight

I am not an Evangelical Christian but when I was young I did go through the "born-again" experience. It was very intense. I don't know how Evangelism relates to Fundamentalism but I expect there are links.
Right now Fundamentalism is moving swiftly though the three Religions of the Book-Christianity, Islam and Judaism.

The book below may help you understand some of what is going on.

Karen Armstrong, The Battle for God: Fundamentalism in Judaism, Christianity and Islam (Harper Collins, 2000)

Reviewed by Rod Benson

James Barr described it as "a pathological condition of Christianity"; Catherine Lumby as "excessively public devotion"; and David Bebbington as "evangelicalism with an inferiority complex." From within it is often seen as "biblical Christianity." However it is perceived, religious fundamentalism is alive and well, not only in Christian cultures but among Jews and Muslims and other religious traditions.

In The Battle for God Karen Armstrong sets her own distinctive spin on the term. Drawing on historical research into the three so-called Abrahamic faiths, she traces the roots and fruits of fundamentalist impulses from the late fifteenth to late nineteenth centuries. Then, focusing on the period 1870-1999, she maps the impact and legacy of fundamentalism on events and nations in the recent past.

Armstrong is considered one of the foremost commentators on religion in North America and Europe. At 17 she chose to devote her life to God as a nun in a Catholic convent. She left her order after seven years in 1969. In Through the Narrow Gate (St Martins Press, 1982), Armstrong describes this ordeal that she says pressed her to the limit of endurance and led her to embrace atheism.

After teaching English and working on television documentaries, Armstrong was appointed to London's Leo Baeck College for the Study of Judaism, where she continues teaching, researching and writing. Today she describes herself as "a freelance monotheist," and likens religion to a raft: "once you get across the river, moor the raft and go on. Don't lug it with you if you don' t need it anymore."

Central to her reading of history is the notion that premodern cultures possessed two complementary and indispensable ways of thinking, speaking and knowing: mythos and logos.

Mythos was concerned with meaning; it "provided people with a context that made sense of their day-to-day lives; it directed their attention to the eternal and the universal." Logos, on the other hand, dealt with practical matters. It forged ahead, elaborating on old insights, mastering the environment, and creating fresh and new things.

Armstrong argues that modern Western society has lost the sense of mythos and enshrined logos as its foundation. Mythical narratives and the rituals and meanings attached to them have ceded authority to that which is rational, pragmatic and scientific - but which does not assuage human pain or sorrow, and cannot answer questions about the ultimate value of human life.

However, far from embarking on a wholesale rejection of the modern emphasis in favour of the old balance, the author contends, religious fundamentalists unwittingly turn the mythos of their faith into logos. Fundamentalism is a child of modernity, and fundamentalists are fundamentally modern.

With rigorous depth of research and astonishing attention to detail, Armstrong traces the impact of modernity (not to be confused with modernism)

on the Christian cultures of Europe and North America, on the Jewish people, and on the Muslims of Egypt and Iran. The so-called "battle for God" refers to attempts by fundamentalists to fill a void at the heart of societies that are based on scientific rationalism.

Apart from functioning as justification of her thesis, the account is worth reading for its perspective on many twentieth-century events such as the growth of secular Zionism leading up to 1948, the Iran hostage crisis of 1980-81, and the confidence of Christian fundamentalists in the 1980s and 1990s in contrast to the mentality of withdrawal after the Scopes trial in the 1920s.

One of the book's weaknesses is its strong focus on fundamentalism in the US, and its preoccupation with the personalities and proclivities of Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye and Jim and Tammy Bakker. It could be argued, of course, that reliance on British fundamentalism would make for less outrageous illustrations and require treatment of the arguably more respectable British evangelical tradition.

Armstrong concludes by observing that:

Secularists and fundamentalists sometimes seem trapped in an escalating spiral of hostility and recrimination. If fundamentalists must evolve a more compassionate assessment of their enemies in order to be true to their religious traditions, secularists must also be more faithful to the benevolence, tolerance, and respect for humanity which characterises modern culture at its best, and address themselves more empathetically to the fears, anxieties, and needs which so many of their fundamentalist neighbours experience but which no society can safely ignore.

Following the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, and October 12, 2002, and their politically-driven repercussions, such comments are all the more relevant and urgent.

[This review first appeared in Mosaic, the Quarterly Journal of the NSW Baptist Ministers Association, Vol. 5, No. 1, Autumn 2003. For more information contact ]

Proud member of Ron Paul's Revolution

Lumping everyone together...

I've read some of Armstrong's writings, and she has gotten some things right. However, she is wrong when she compares "fundamentalists" from every religion. This way of "grouping" is dangerous and will never work to enlighten non-religious people about faithful believers who aren't part of the herd. In addition, it paves the way for religious intolerance and suppression of religious freedom.

To be able to understand people of true faith who are not ignorant intolerant and do not follow that herd, one has to take people as individuals, just as Ron Paul does.

If we fail to do this, we've learned nothing from him, and even if he becomes President, we haven't learned the better way.

Im disappointed in

Pat Robertson for endorsing Rudy.

There are many Christians who don't get it or understand what's going on.

Some of their zealot pastors have taught them this is some kind of jihad holy war against America because were Christian in America.
Actually our problems stem from being non Christian like in our foreign and domestic policies. Were the old Soviet Union in foreign affairs, and now becoming fast that way on the domestic front.

Here are some sites where Christians do get whats going on, and theyre on our side.
http://www.christian-quest.com
http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com
http://www.christiansforpaul.com
http://screamfreedom.blogspot.com

God Bless America

Those strange people have a forum...go here to read about them..

http://www.mikehuckabeeforum.com/index.php?topic=598.0

G_d bless
Attend a Church of your choice this Saturday

G_d bless
Attend a Church of your choice this Saturday