11 votes

Where is a good Libertarian haven?

I'm 21 years old and own my own computer business in Tennessee. I started it from the ground up, have three employees and have recently toyed with ideas of selling my business and moving. I would likely ask for $100,000 and allow someone to negotiate with me in order to sell it.

My question is: Where is the best "libertarian" society on earth? Things I would factor in my decision would be: Taxes, Foreign Policy, Monetary Policy (Banking, etc), Gun Rights, Drug policies / laws, etc.

I am starting to give up hope on the US changing anytime soon, especially Tennessee. I am not opposed to moving out of the country or staying in the country and am not opposed to learning a new language. Where would you move if you could take your wealth with you? Again, I have not made any final decisions and am merely toying with ideas.

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This might sound crazy

This might sound crazy but I grew up in rural NW Kansas and I can tell you that if you own your own house in the country in that region, absolutely nobody will F with you. You can do pretty much whatever you want and you can drive easily to Colorado for a weekend getaway. Houses are extremely cheap, i'm talking 25k to 60k will get you a nice house. Crime is almost zero, I just recommend finding a place in the countryside rather than in town, as it would be hard to find the peace and tranquility you get on your own piece of land in an area that is warm and hospitable, but practically all to yourself. Great hunting, perfect soil for growing anything, and the same amount of sunny days as southern California. Many counties in KS, (Phillips county is a great one) offers great grant money for start up businesses as well. check it out!

Learn Spanish

Spanish will give you access to all of latin america...even brazilians understand spanish decently and you could learn Portuguese very quickly since they are similar. Latin america has some very high potencial and there are several countries that are moving towards freedom rather than socialism. An added bonus is that since you are single you can look for a sexy latina. I recommend peru, chile, panama, for decent countries that are moving in the right direction. Brazil is a fun place and you will feel very free but the taxes and regulation are horrible.

I would recommend paraguay. Small population, low regulation and taxes, good looking women, tropical weather, booming market 15% for 2013. But very high corruption, horrible judicial system. You need to learn the rules but if you do there is lots of opportunity. It is the most libertarian place i have ever known.

Most poor countries are really free.

It is not lucrative to control poor people. So any country South of the US is far freeer than here. Actually, there is a myth going around that the USA is and has been a free country. It is not. It has not been for quite some time. Even the European countries do not have the amount of regulations we do. But, the poorer the country, the freeer it is in my experience.

far from the truth

There is no doubt that the usa has lost some of its freedom in recent years but it still remains fairly free. Most poor countries are poor because they arent free or lack fundamentals of society, such as a judicial system. Many poor countries feel freerer. Yeah you can drink a beer on the streets of Haiti but someone can come by and just kill you for that same beer and know they wont go to jail. Or you might pay l3ss in taxes but your land is invaded by a mob of peasants. Or when you get arrested you can expect to get tortured, while in the usa you most likely wont. Developed countries are more controlled but usually are more free than poor ones.

Poor countries:

Generally there are no building codes, no business licensing, no FDA, no requirement to go to public school, no smoking laws, no drinking age, drug laws are for punishing violence menaces to society (in most cases), no pharmaceutical laws, no gambling laws, no mandated insurance, no Homeland Security, and airports secure themselves if the US is not there doing it. These are just things I came up with off the top of my head.

If the populace has little money, the government can only steal a small portion from them. Small governments don't have the funds to control every aspect of their subject's lives.

Freedom and prosperity are different. The prosperity the US has enjoyed is excessive. The US has been living off the rest of the World by means of the reserve currency backed by the US military for decades. The concept of government has to be scratched before freedom and prosperity would have a linear relationship.

As far as I understand, prison in the US is run by gang rules. The best fighters rule. Prison anywhere sucks. But the US has 25% of the World's prison population with 5% of the people. That says it all. The US is the least free overall country I have visited.

http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/countries-with-high...

The lack of a quality justice system is not what deems a place un-free. The US has its benefits. But freedom is not one of them.

Developed countries are more controlled but usually are more free than poor ones.

I don't you meant that. Did you?

Staying in the south?

SC is doing some good stuff..well..the upstate part is. They just need to get rid of Graham

I believe in Hope & Change..I Hope the government will Change
Spindale-Rutherford County-North Carolina

I think the best libertarian haven

is the one you make.
Have you tried getting a neighborhood garden club, or a community garden going? When I gave up on politics and started talking aquaponics, all of the sudden I found all these people desperate for information about how to live an independent life style, how to raise their own food, how to prepare for whatever crisis may come... They still think they are Republicans and Democrats, but they sound more and more like the "aquaponics chick" every day. SHHHHHHH! Don't tell them! ;)

Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.

Pura Vida

Good post and advice.. Costa Rica is my last haven if things continue to escalate here. Am learning, doing the self sufficient thing on a farm now. All my trays of veggie starts are ready to go out in the garden except cabbage. My puppy ate my cabbage starts! [that's my homework now] Need more people in this country to wake up, you have a great approach. A little behind the times since it's been on the market so long, but just finished reading Patriots by James Wesley Rawles. Think I'd rather skip the last part at my age.

Deekey

I've been looking at moving to Tennessee

TN seems like a libertarian haven compared to New York.

We all want progress, but if you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive.

-C. S. Lewis

As bad as I make it out to

As bad as I make it out to be, I'm sure TN will be like another country even with personal liberties compared to NY. Are you in upstate NY or NYC?

Upstate

NYC is far worse than upstate...

We all want progress, but if you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive.

-C. S. Lewis

No.7's picture

I don't think it gets much better than Tennessee

Keep doing what you're doing Tim. There are many friendly to liberty in the Volunteer state, 8000 in the Murfreesboro area and if I remember correctly it was you who pointed that out. We've got Mae Beavers, Jim Tracy, and Mike Sparks, that's more than most people have.

I ask you not to give up on Tennessee. Nullification is catching on with some of our local politicians. Things might get interesting...

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson

Honestly I have not given up

Honestly I have not given up yet, it is merely nice to know some good options in case things ever get worse, say hillary gets elected in 2016 for and consecutively again in 2020 for example. That's the reason I said language doesn't matter.. would take years to become fluent in a language.. =P

The scumbag statists are the ones who should be kicked out.

Those who violate the Constitution should be exiled, never allowed to return. Ship them out to some country where freedom is not valued, and where they will feel right at home.

I imagine it will take a revolution, but better that if it comes it be fought here where we have a legitimate claim of right to do so.

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

Why saddle some other people with our scumbags?

If your house is infested with rats you don't catch them then release them in your neighbor's house. Anyway, you do that there's the chance they'll return to yours.
The DoI says we have the right to abolish any government because we're the ones who created it. If they won't go, and they won't because they rigged the election process, then we have to turn to the Law, our Constitution. Treason is covered there. It's about time we start using the Constitution again.

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

Unfortunately I don't see

Unfortunately I don't see that happening. I honestly think it would send a bigger signal to the country if we were to have something that has only happened once in history (that we know of), have more people leaving this country than coming in. This last happened in the great depression and if conditions continue to worsen in this country and conditions ever improve in Mexico I could see it happening again.

Chile ...

... as I understand, pretty much looks the other way for individual possession of marijuana, offers a zero income tax rate for the first 3 years for small business people who move there and gain residency, has a vibrant economy with some of the worlds' richest natural resources, has a bit of a libertarian streak after decades of dictators fresh in the mind (they are well-known for their "radical" social retirement system), has every climate from scorching desert to 20,000 foot Andes mountains to Antarctica, to hundreds of miles of beaches. You could do a lot worse as a place to check out.

Also, take a look at Uruguay, Spain, Switzerland, and Croatia.

No country today is a libertarian utopia, but these are some places where a person can live well and relatively free -- especially if they are not a citizen.

Uruguay and Switzerland

My votes... I'd add New Zealand as well but they have compromised themselves recently by allowing the USA to muscle them (reference: Kim DotCom / FBI Raid / Federal Case).

"One resists the invasion of armies; one does not resist the invasion of ideas" Victor Hugo

I really appreciate the

I really appreciate the input. I'll definitely check those countries out. Chile would be a pretty awesome place to live as well, as you mentioned there is a tremendous amount of landscape to the country as well. Three years of tax-free residency is a definite plus.

As I said, with social security factored in, I pay easily 40%+ of my income in taxes in America. I would not be surprised with all things considered (social security 15%, property tax, wheels tax, sales tax, etc) for it to be well over 50%, even.

If you live and have a business internationally ...

... you can pay pretty close to zero taxes. Almost doesn't matter which country. Just pick a place you will enjoy the most.

Unfortunately my business is

Unfortunately my business is the definition of a small business. One location, three employees.

I know I've mentioned taxes a few times, however it is but one variable of the differences I have with my state and country.

I do not know if it is a

I do not know if it is a Haven but Costa Rica seems pretty balanced. They do not have an army, they live in peace with everyone, they have good ecological conscience, reasonable people.

I think the drug policy would be similar to any other nation in the Americas and maybe taxation is not that low. Anyway, it is a nice place to visit.

Sounds like a thought I'll

Sounds like a thought I'll look into. The weather is also nice there as well.

Free-State Project

The Free-State Project basically asked those questions, and more, about a state in this country, the most libertarian country ever founded.

We've lost ground, but the Free-Staters aim to take it back, starting with New Hampshire, one of the winners on the freedom evaluation they did.

I, for one, am encouraged that for the first time libertarians will have to stand and fight, because, much as they might wish it, the floating libertarian utopias in the ocean or on the Moon aren't ready, yet, and the other frontiers have been broken.

You can run away from authoritarians, or you can fight them, and this time, we will probably have to fight. Luckily, the government creates new libertarians every day.

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

At the time we may have been

At the time we may have been the most libertarian country founded but we are certainly far from where we used to be. Even the most libertarian state in this country would still fall within the scope of the federal political spectrum, unfortunately.

I'm encouraged but do you think this will solve our problems? I like the idea behind it, but the downside is if one state gains a heavy population of libertarians at the expense of other states becoming more radical, wouldn't the two actions cancel each other out? Even if the state becomes a beacon of success, would the federal government not find a way to tax them and send their earnings to other failed states? Unfortunately I see things in America becoming a lot worse before they will ever begin to get any better.

I hope no-one misconstrues my

I hope no-one misconstrues my comments as unamerican. My family immigrated here ~125-170 years ago and I was born and raised here. Simply put, I've nearly given up hope as I see our political system becoming worse and worse. I also feel like other countries would be much more receptive to rewarding talent and hard work.

It Had to Get Worse

It had to get worse before it gets better.

I was against the drug war in 1973, and finally, I have more allies. Cocaine was outlawed much earlier than 1973, and if I were around then, I'd have had an even longer wait. I'm actually encouraged on that front.

These things run in cycles, and we are nearing a turning point--better hope the Internet can educate voters really quick re economics, freedom, etc., because the public will decide (we outnumber everyone else).

Ron Paul's recent success, relative to his lifelong battle, is directly related to the change in public attitudes--and that process is continuing.

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

I agree, but unfortunately I

I agree, but unfortunately I think where we are now in comparison to where we are headed will make us wish for the conditions we now have. When the fed crashes, our foreign policy backfires finally, social security collapses, and many other problems a century in the making finally unfold, there will not be many good states to reside in.

I also understand that these problems will ultimately affect the globe with a global interconnected economy, but at least elsewhere I will be able to save easier and diversify my wealth without restrictions.

I agree he has been rather successful, but the sad thing is for every person we convert to libertarian-ism there are 5 more sheep ready to take their place. The internet helps a lot, but it also serves to misinform as well. Liberals and neo-cons alike have a plethora of resources to indoctrinate people with their views, and logical thought out arguments presented from libertarian-ism are drowned out to those not looking or whom don't know how to search properly.

I don't mean to take the cup-half-empty approach, but with problems scaling as big as they are it is hard not to.

Somalia. Taxes -No income

Somalia.

Taxes -No income tax, 1-2% sales taxes
Foreign Policy - No real army to invade anyone
Monetary Policy - Diamonds/gold used as currency; pretty much any currency is accepted there
Gun Rights - No government bans on anything.
Drug policies - Absolutely no government bans. Availability is probably quite good.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

Somalia is not a libertarian

Somalia is not a libertarian or anarchist country.

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