37 votes

US Code: Federal Reserve Notes Shall Be Redeemed in Lawful Money on Demand

USC › Title 12 › Chapter 3 › Subchapter XII › § 411

12 USC § 411 - Issuance to reserve banks; nature of obligation; redemption

Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

Source: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/12/411

Gold and silver coin must be lawful money since the United States Constitution declares, in Article I, Section 10, "No State shall... make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts".

Furthermore we have evidence about the original intent of the framers at the constitutional convention:

The eighth clause of the seventh article, in the first draft of the constitution, was as follows: "The legislature of the United States shall have the power to borrow money and emit bills on the credit of the United States." The journal of the convention for August 16th makes this record: "It was moved and seconded to strike out the words 'and emit bills,' "and the motion to strike out these words "passed in the affirmative. Yeas: New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia — 9. Nays: New Jersey, Maryland — 2." So the convention, by a vote of more than four to one, refused to grant to the legislature of the United States the power "to emit bills on the credit of the United States."

For the interpretation of this record, Madison, the best possible witness, has left this note: "Striking out the words cut off the pretext for a paper currency, and particularly for making the bills a tender either for public or private debts."

Source:

A PLEA FOR THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES

Wounded in the House of Its Guardians

by George Bancroft

1884

http://www.constitution.org/gb/gb-plea.htm

For further historical reference and perspective I recommend reading all of Bancroft's plea as well as the following:

NOTES ON THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A MONEY UNIT, AND OF A COINAGE FOR THE UNITED STATES - Thomas Jefferson, The Works, vol. 4 (Notes on Virginia II, Correspondence 1782-1786) [1905] Source: http://oll.libertyfund.org/?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=s...

What Is A "Dollar"? An Historical Analysis Of The Fundamental Question In Monetary Policy by Edwin Vieira, Jr.
http://constitution.org/mon/what_is_a_dollar.htm

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Please...

..don't feed the chickens.

dynamite anthrax supreme court white house tea party jihad
======================================
West of 89
a novel of another america
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/161155#longdescr

haha sorry

sometimes I can't resist

An affinity for chickens......

I suppose. I think It has become clear by now his purpose on this site.

He dislikes SOVEREIGNTY and doesn't believe in real debate but mimics the style of quatloos with the name calling and nu uh type remarks.

Glad to see this discussion going on OP!

"Liberty is the soul's right to breathe, and when it cannot take a long breath laws are girded too tight. Without liberty, man is a syncope." -Henry Ward Beecher

Thanks I am glad some people appreciate it

It is difficult to deal with people like chicken meister who are unwilling to engage in any sort of rational discussion; it is very refreshing to see comments like yours. It makes me feel more certain that there are others who lurk and refrain from commenting who feel the same way.

oh please

you really mean to say that ....NOOOO...BAHAHAHAHA....that, you think that....NO COULDN'T BE ROFL ROFL ROFL...that if one believes in sov citizen hoax crap....BWAHHAHAHAHA....ok compose...that means they are rational....blahahahahahhahahahahaahahahahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. THERE, my fingers lauged so hard they finger puked.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

what exactly are you claiming is "sov citizen hoax crap"

If you want to prove that you are actually willing to engage in rational discussion then lets discuss in detail what it is specifically that you are claiming I wrote that is "sov citizen hoax crap".

deacon's picture

ummm

it's a waste of time,as you very well know
it is looking to close up loop holes,and make it harder
to find the truth
that sov cit thing he came up in a post here,it was to try to expose
the ones who know the game
keep up the good work

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

Here read this:

http://quatloosia.blogspot.com/2012/10/redeeming-lawful-mone...

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

deacon's picture

really,rubber chicken man

A link to a blog post?
Complete with US court proceedings,and appearances from
geithner?
Opinions from the very ones who brought us this mess? and this is your reasoning and or stance for holding it oh so dear?
Opinions from the ones who want to keep their control? Ones who will not let it go without a fight?
And you still think they are right? seriously,you have some major issues
And all you are looking for is truth,truth that you will not use,but try to stifle
I laugh at you and your whole premise,and your lot in life
A lawyer my eye !!you bot boy are a fraud,a hoax,and a demented troll
have a nice posting day

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

you already posted that back when your name was

"DaveisSkeptical"

BTW You never did respond to my query as far as your idea of what Madison meant when he said "Striking out the words cut off the pretext for a paper currency, and particularly for making the bills a tender either for public or private debts."

Why is that? Are you incapable of answering such a simple question?

well you're a sharp one aren;t you

now you can read it a second time.

Well, becasue you're nuts and you're quoting things out of context to get your desired delusion.

Thank you for asking.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

quoting things out of context?

How am I doing that? I provided the context numerous times. It is quite clear what James Madison is referring to. If you claim there is some context I am leaving out why don't you say what it is?

so um like

what's your point? You have some FRNS and you want to redeem them? You can't.

Even if you should be able to.

So again, what's your point?

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Your point?

What is your point? Why does this information bother you so much that you feel you must make numerous comments attacking it?

All I am trying to do is establish some basic historical facts here. At the constitutional convention there was an overwhelming majority that voted to strike out the congressional power to emit bills from the draft constitution. A lot of people are not aware that this vote took place and don't know that James Madison said "Striking out the words cut off the pretext for a paper currency, and particularly for making the bills a tender either for public or private debts." Can we agree that this is a basic indisputable fact?

My point in questioning you on this subject is to find out why you are so vehemently attacking me. What is it that I said that makes you so upset that you feel you must post comment after comment conflating the factual information I have presented with "sov citizen hoax crap"?

my point

and not necessarily addressed just at you or your post, and certainly broader than this subject, is this.

this forum is well populated with pests, sort of a like a hillside with lots of gophers. It has some real libertarians at it. It is well intended by its owners and administrators. But many of the people that post, post things that are nauseatingly stupid. Sov cit hoaxes, redeeming lawful money in 2013, variations on conspiracy theories that are beyond moronic, you name it.

If one tries to discuss intelligently, you get called a state agent, disinfo, troll, democrat, romney lover etc. If one provides facts or case cites, they are disregarded. I've done that too many times.

So, occasionally, to blow off steam, I reply on the same level with the same lack of info. But AT LEAST my conclusions and the gist of what I post is still correct. I just don't waste my time providing the raw material to those who have no inclination to process it.

Now go back out and redeem your federal reserve notes. Please film the process even! And do report back! Let us know how it goes!

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

The reason you are called a troll

Is because you clearly don't ever try to discuss anything intelligently, your claim that your inane commentary is "occasional" is laughable at best. I have tried over and over to have a rational discussion with you about this subject but you steadfastly refuse to do so. Everytime I ask you a direct question you engage in obfuscation. It is impossible to have a reasonable debate when you refuse to have basic dialogue. If you disagree with me about something I wrote or think something I posted is incorrect then why don't you come out and directly say specifically what you think it is I got wrong. I am more than willing to consider any facts you would like to cite. As far as court cases I never said that courts would agree with me that gold and silver coin is lawful money, I understand that our current system has been rubberstamped by legal precedent I am not disputing that, if you bothered to consider my argument you would see that I am clearly saying that Bancroft was right and the majority opinion of the SCOTUS was wrong in the legal tender cases. Furthermore to repeat once again I have never said that I can or anyone should try to go out and redeem their Federal Reserve Notes as I have noted this would only be an exercise in futility.

well

if so and you're just providing historical info, then perhaps my response painted you with a broad brush into the same corner that the faux sovereign citizens and redemption scam strawman hoaxers and hoax victims belong. Usually when one hears "redeeming lawful money" it looks, walks, and quacks like a sovereign citizen hoax. The rest of my comments about the subject, and this site, I stand by. It's an online virtual asylum for bad thinking. occasionally there are pleasant and intelligent surprises. But you're right, if I so disdain the nature of the dialogue here, instead of engaging in trolling or behavior that others consider trolling, I should find another site I can take seriously. Point well taken.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

perhaps?

Perhaps you should have actually read what I wrote and thoughtfully considered the factual historical and statutory information which I posted before you responded so many times with your snide remarks. I never said anything about "redeeming lawful money", I merely cited the US code word for word which declares plainly that Federal Reserve Notes shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand. One does not "redeem lawful money", that phrase makes no sense; lawful money is the stuff which Federal Reserve Notes are supposed to be redeemed in on demand according to the US Code. I made an argument that lawful money can only legally mean gold and silver coin, my contention is based on the text of the constitution and the original intent of the founders as evidenced in particular by the vote which took place at the constitutional convention to which Madison responded by saying that all pretext for a paper currency had thus been cut off.

I think lawful money

means what it sounds like...money that is lawful.

As the laws change, that definition changes, accordingly.

The original founders intent would certainly be an improvement over what we have. But pretending the problem doesn;t exist because of some sov cit mumbo jumbo (which always gets expressed in these threads) is nothing but willfully ignoring the unpleasant reality. Change for the better can only happen if we're honest with ourselves about our sitiuation.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

I am not pretending the problem doesn't exist

Just because other people post nonsense about writing "redeemed in lawful money on demand" on the back of their checks and whatnought does not in any way diminish the importance of anything I wrote. If you look carefully you will find that I try to respond to these folks and explain to them that they have been misinformed.

Anyway since the word money is a very important term in the constitution it is not something that congress could lawfully change with a mere statute, as that would be tantamount to improperly amending the constitution. If we are going to have a proper constitution it is necessary to maintain the integrity of the terms within it otherwise if the meaning of the words can simply be changed at the whim of congress or whoever then the whole point of having a constitution is rendered moot.

Also I agree with you that change for the better starts with recognizing the problems we have, which is why my post directly addresses one such important problem that is directly related to many of the serious issues we face as a nation.

AGREE.

and I think most of Congress would prefer it that way, so they don't have to justify their actions

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

avoiding the question once again are we?

Why am I not surprised?

He won't respond because he is DPs king troll

That's why he keeps changing his profile name.

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

He seems to especially like to troll you

He refuses to discuss anything with me at any length but with you he becomes much more verbose.

Yes because he knows I have found the lawful path

He doesn't want my understanding to spread because the result is that Government would no longer have the power to interfere with anyone without the consent of the governed meaning that the accuser accepting liability for their own accusation against another is the only lawful path for Government to have lawful power in ANY initiation of court proceedings. Consent of the governed being explicitly defined as the identified principal accuser that the agent of government is acting on behalf of means ALL power of Judicial process is in the hands of the individuals that make up We the People. Consent of the governed NOT Consent of the Government. This removes ALL the prosecuting attorneys' false claims of authority when one knows where this came from in Common Law and how we can implement RIGHT NOW with only clear awareness. They will run out of time. Time is the most powerful law of Nature. When Constitutional Law, Organic Law and Common Law have failed we must turn to Natural Law to ensure the protections of Law and Time is a path to non-violent remedy and the protections of law. He can't stand that I know this fact and needs to discredit me any way he can.

He is a former or active prosecutor who has admitted on DP in the past to defeating "Sovereign Citizens" as such. Now I believe he is working the "Sovereign Citizen" angle possibly an investigator to identify "Sovereign Citizens" online of which he has created the (false) assumption that I am. With this angle he pokes me to look for information he can use to profile me as some form of threat and to pre-emptively find "SC" arguments that they can prepare and disseminate their counter logic to within courts (which once proven will demonstrate mens rea). This is what I believe he is doing here with me.

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

deacon's picture

true

the rubber chicken plucker is just here to gloat,snicker and snort
and all the while stroke its ego (otherwise known as the rubber chicken)
But it is looking for people to expose loopholes,ones that are there
and wants them closed
If ones keep engaging it,will become a noose around their necks
Just take a look at what IT does not answer,but wants others to
Take a look at how it answers,it is not up to par,nor does it engage
with talk,just gibberish,and rubble (such is its soul)
Take a look at the use of words,how they are used,there is no respect
nor anything remotely human about it
it is though,on a fishing expedition
I for one,will not fall for its bait
just a useless dull tool,like a ho

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

That is why I strike at at the root

I leave the sharper details for the "court" but I give enough logic such that it (they?) understand that to close this loophole exposes their criminal activity and essentially put the choice between Law and tyranny into the hands of the individual who make up the court. The search is for mens rea. I worry not about them attempting to "close loopholes" because the truth and real law is not a loophole and if executed properly is inviolate.

There exists infinite number of random winding paths to the understanding of Law and if the people just appear specially on the various grounds of the facts that they understand to be self evident then the "courts" simply run out of time. If they run out of time then the choice will be clear for the individual Judges and DA's they will either have to open up their concentration camps to maintain "control" of people or they will see that the Common Law has truly altered and thus yield to the precedent the people seek. With mass instantaneous access to information of the Law and History of Law we can consciously begin to shape law through consciously choosing the interpretation and understanding of law with a single logical requirement of NO LAW CAN VIOLATE ANY OTHER LAW in our understanding and proceed unwavering to that destiny. They're tyranny and extortion is exactly what will break the bank for them IF the people are aware and come to their self-evident conclusion in law. They bring aware people in to extort them and their time and money evaporates instantly. THIS IS REAL POWER. We can strip them of all of their false claims of authority if we understand the fact the Equality means equal liability. Lawful power only derives from consent of the governed and we need to strip away all the bullshit of legalese and make sure we keep the Law and understanding very simple so that the most number of people can fully understand their own rights and the limited capacity the government operates in. By taking their time with a very specific lawful interpretation we can just beat into their thick skulls by everyone and watch their theft evaporate and the criminal rackets just get completely jammed up to the max can guarantee precedent via the time taken by law abiding people knowledgeable of the law and/or we can expose the criminals for who they really are. This is the beautiful part about what I have been enlightened to. They don't have the time to deal with everyone challenging jurisdiction aka appearing specially. From the calculations I have done just the Ron Paul supporters alone is more than 100 times what is necessary to jam up the entire criminal racket with people detailing the facts. This is unstoppable if people were to just stop being a bunch ignorant asshole wanting to be or have new rulers who will fix everything for them. So chicken and the criminals claiming to be "Law enforcement", "Courts" or Government" can go eat a dick. They are lying criminal scumbags who literally need to go to prison.

My father was a Federal agent who worked criminal fraud cases against all the major defense contractors and other government contractors and I could blow your mind with the absolute institutionalized criminal activity I have detailed knowledge of. The US attorneys are literally the protectors of the crimes that are on going and it is just a never ending revolving door of theft for ALL major contractors and the US attorneys make sure they get away with everything under the guise of there is 'not enough evidence' to prosecute when investigators bring the proof forward. Why do you think the Prosecuting attorneys across the country so desperately want everyone to forget that lawful powers of government are derived from consent of the governed and they want everyone to believe that they are sole deciders of what will go to criminal trial and what evidence will be presented? It is because most of them are criminals. If we strip that power from them through strategic targeting of the precedent at the very root of our
Law then the criminals will be screwed. They want to be the deciders and beneficiaries of the never ending fraud, theft, extortion and murder but the need the power to the the decider of criminal prosecution or not.

The systematic destruction of the Federal Investigative agencies has been cold calculated empire building by mega criminals. They have literally replaced nearly all competent investigators with a mix of complete morons who are totally brainwashed idiots who just sit on their ass and get a fat paycheck and criminal thugs who play the game of protect the tyranny. The whole time the prosecuting attorneys get to just sit back and decide what cases will be prosecuted thus you have people like Corzine partying with these people while non-violent offenders of some bullshit unlawfully applied code are raked over the coals. This is because of the Prosecuting attorneys criminal nature.

How do you think it so that criminal corporations like Haliburton/KBR Carlyle Group and others get away with their never ending crime, or why psycho maniac "cops" get away with murder, or mass genocide war crimes and even giving weapons to terrorists is all swept under the rug while a guy goes to jail for 10 years for a couple of pounds of pot? This is no accident. It is cold calculated control freaks who are literally protecting criminals and brainwashing the entire Law enforcement apparatus to believe that lawful powers are derived from the consent of government and not the not consent of the governed and that only prosecuting attorneys are the sole decider of what criminal cases get prosecuted and what evidence is presented and that code presents a valid cause of action.

This is the front lines. We must bring these criminals to justice and hold common law precedent consciously and purposefully for very specific reasons of ensuring that equality means equal liability for one's own self initiated actions and for the purpose that the government and courts MUST remain impartial for all cases. They are the ones protecting the unlawful 'precedent' that Article 1 Section 10 is not binding law upon their capacities. They benefit from this and they know they are protecting it. The problem is that these criminals are smaller criminals then the criminals who put them there and the real end game will be to destroy our currency after they have stolen all property and leave America in shambles with everyone fighting each while they move with their empire agenda. The prosecuting attorneys are chump criminals compared to the banksters but the prosecuting attorneys are the ones protecting the bankers.

All of these criminals can go eat a dick. I am done with this. They are going to collapse the entire criminal currency they have and destroy America so that they can just keep on with their crimes. The fact that they are getting away with all of this shows that all the troops and cops and federal agents who claim to be protecting the people and upholding the law are really just a bunch of chump ass slaves to the criminals.

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

Booomp!

Great Catch! I've gathered my evidence, & now to file it like a suppository. Homeless & dirt poor is the only way to be free.

what are you talking about?

Is your comment supposed to be some kind of lame attempt at humor?

not so much humor

tis more of apathetic dismay... I really enjoy the read. Its great for intellectual digestion. However, I would not recommend this course of action for anyone just trying to get out of paying taxes. It concerns me that someone might try to jump into this head first & find themselves up a creek without a paddle to redeem ( <-- lame humor there.)