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When Sexual Liberty triumphs Religious Liberty...

...there is economic tyranny: because the religious liberty thingy is mentioned in the 1st Amendment, but the sexual liberty thing is not! Perhaps Madison overlooked the rights of men to fornicate in perverse ways without respect to natural moral boundaries? How far we've come, now that behaviors that were considered crimes in the 1780's on the law books are now lauded and encouraged and ASSURED they will be aided by government force upon those who have reverence for the laws of Nature, and of Nature's God!

So, progressives have pulled out this mob tactic telling capitalists who they MUST do business with, or get sued to oblivion; or, out of business if they allow their conscience to govern their public reputation or religious witness(or lack thereof).

Washington State Sues Florist Who Refused Flowers for Same-Sex Wedding

"And just to make sure she gets the message, the ACLU is suing her, too. To stop her from being a bully, I guess".

http://www.newswithviews.com/Duigon/lee197.htm



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Without Morality, there can be no freedom

As a Ron Paul die hard and Constitution lover of liberty I've discovered something lacking in the liberty movement. Freedom and Liberty are not the same thing. Liberty can only come as we adopt laws that align with the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God.

As John Adams Stated "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." The famous French Historian Alex de Tocqueville noted,“The Americans combine the notions of religion and liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive of one without the other”. He also stated, “America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.”

Folks, America is no longer great because America is no longer good. Liberty is fading because Religion and Morality are fading. Lately I've been under attack by "liberty" people because I use my religion as the bases of why I believe in the Laws I do.

Religion is under attack in American and it's under attack in the Liberty movement. The first Protection in the First Amendment to the Constitution protects freedom of Religion. Any Law or Right you support comes from some moral system you have. For me my morality comes from a study of the Laws of Nature and Science, the Bible and the revealed word of God to men (to me they are the same Laws). If you think deeply about the Laws you support you will find that they too come from a religious belief or a law of science or nature. If you don't believe there are natural Laws then you believe that Rights and Laws come from the Government. This is a very dangerous thing to believe as Government can give and take 'laws' and 'rights' as they please. But as assuredly as the rising sun and the pull of gravity the laws that don't align with Natural Laws will bring disaster to those who follow them. The founders knew this and that is why they established the Constitution and left the States to discover and implement more of the Laws of Nature for themselves.

At the signing of the Constitution 7 of the 13 States had State religions. Religious minds established most of the great Ivy League schools we revere today, Harvard by the Puritans, Yale by Congregationalist ministers, Princeton founded by Presbyterians, University of Pennsylvania by the Church of England and Methodists, Columbia by the Church of England, Brown University by The Baptists, Dartmouth College by the Calvinist.

The integration of religious notions and morality in the City, County and State Law is what made America great and Liberty abound. Being free to do whatever you want is not Liberty. It can be the destruction of freedom and Liberty. The greatness and simplicity of great Laws like love your neighbor as yourself,thou shalt not kill, steal or covet are not meant to enslave you. Those Laws when followed create an environment where you are free to discover great things, ennobling things that bring life and light to a people. Secular laws should align with the Laws of Nature and of Natures God. Choosing to have laws that don't align with them produces what we have today in our country.

Liberty lovers, we need to get back to the faith of our Fathers if we are to save our liberties. I wish I had more time to write with more depth and history here but I hope you would study why you believe you have the Rights that you have. Where do those beliefs come from? How do you know they are true? If your beliefs come from a religious source are you skipping some important Laws because you don't think they are important? Something to think about.

riddle me this.

as a Deist, I consider gubbermint involvement in marriage to demean the very sanctity of the Marriage.

within this context...why should I be concerned if two gay people get married by a gay pastor?

Even here in the SF Bay Area

The liberal talk show hosts agree, in particular two gay ones, more than the others. The straight ones are probably silenced.

Both state that the ACLU is way overstepping their boundaries.

And we have strict rules here, right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. At least to my knowledge. Probably across the nation.

Whatever couple of partners were trying to get flowers have the right to shop somewhere else. Which they should. If before my wedding some flower shop said we don't do straight orders I would flip them the bird and go find another shop.

It's not a flower monopoly, in fact I would wager "gay friendly" flower shops are hopping all over it and making hand over fist.

I've never understood gay amorous relationships so I don't pretend to. My former brother in law was gay and I thought he was a great guy. Really strange but a good guy. The best brawl I've ever seen was him kicking the crap out of some other dude.

I used to joke with him (being the good Irish Catholic) that God would smite him, he ended up getting poison oak in his behind. Yes, "in". That was great. That was months of joking. Then he started dating an HIV+ guy and I told him to be careful but he caught it and refused treatment, within months AIDS and dead later.

I don't know if it is a perversion or not. I'm not gay. Most humans lust after the opposite sex in order to procreate. That I do know as I did it myself. But I've never lusted after another man so I don't know if it is perversion or not. I just know I helped make a child whom I have ended up raising on my own for 12 years now. With no time to date, I'm sure there are rampant rumors.

I love my male friends. I LOVE them. Not in an amorous way, but they are my extended family, we are brothers, I have none by blood that I know of. I also love my female friends as they help fill in as a mother figure.

Unless someone is hurting someone else against their will, I'm okay with it, but only because I don't understand and because I'm tolerant. Maybe I am progressive in a sense, maybe I'm a collectivist, but I am me. And I'm here to stick. Even if I don't understand or don't agree.

My family is way anti-gay, in fact my own brother in law wasn't invited to my wedding but I made sure he came anyways, and he was a good brother, as weird as his lifestyle was. Many people may think libertarians are weird.

Actually, thinking about it, I think he was pretty perverse. He led my bachelor party. Kidding, we just smoked a lot of pot. Just don't tell anyone... We were actually "in a strip club".

So I think we may disagree on what perve is, but agree on an owner's rights. that's 0-0. :)

Good topic.

Modern progressivism seems to

Modern progressivism seems to be little more than attempting to correct one wrong, in this case gay bigotry, with another wrong, in this case a violation of the business owner's property rights.

Modern conservatism seems to be little more than ignoring the first wrong while attacking the second.

I must be willing to give up what I am in order to become what I will be. Albert Einstein

sexual liberty IS religious liberty

Economic liberty is personal liberty.
The freedom to speak includes the freedom to ignore you.
Right of association equals the right of disassociation.

There are no "parts" of liberty (paraphrasing The Good Doctor), it's all one thing.

Sexual LICENSE and religious LICENSE are also equal. The "right" to rape children is about on a par with the "right" to perform human sacrifices. In fact, child abuse (and conscription and taxation) IS human sacrifice. Furthermore, collectivism itself is human sacrifice.

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======================================
West of 89
a novel of another america
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/161155#longdescr

Remember this saying? (WARNING: risqué double entendre)

"Loose lips sink ships."?

America's moral ship just about sunk!
Someone posted this before and it's worth posting again.

The Communist Takeover Of America - 45 Declared Goals

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."
27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."
28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

http://rense.com/general32/americ.htm

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

loose sexual behavior leads to tyranny.

the elitists know this, and it's why pornography is a multi-billion dollar business

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

I do not get angry at news

I do not get angry at news like these anymore, instead I take action and donate.

There is an organization that will defend religious liberty:
http://www.pacificjustice.org/

I donate to them on an off an on basis. They seem to be very good and honest. It is important to support these types of organizations to keep our liberties.