9 votes

Serious Question: How Do WE Win?

We all have goals. The DP is at a tipping point on how we define ourselves and our influence.

While I respect AJ that doesn't mean I have to agree with him.

I personally believe Dailypaul has been an outspoken bastion in the faith of freedom and liberty. Having been here so long I have seen many people come and go.

What always kept me here was the principled faith that liberty was the best path to follow. Not conspiracy.

It is my honest hope that someone unites our country before we lose it.

I understand Mr. Nystrom being exhausted. Its gotta be hard balancing so many divisive opinions. What a crap thing to be responsible for... especially if you only wanted to help out are first. Who signs up for a headache???




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Through all the ages, freedom

Through all the ages, freedom has come to its seekers, once the seekers stopped fearing death.

IMO

Personally doing what one can virtually helps the cause of free dominion while politically, I believe one reason why Dr. Paul was so widely admired is that he was in a position to principally affect policy; that is as a statesman.

Hence my latest encouragement is to run for some kind of public office with viable ideals.

fireant's picture

Simple

The one thing we have in common is the Constitution. It is a gift to us to use in order to keep tyranny at bay. That's what it was designed for. If we'd simply focus on knowing it, and how it is anchored by the Declaration, then insist it be followed, most of the tyrannical threats we face today would slink back into the dark shadows.
We have to get that pesky 17th (and 16th) repealed though, to have a chance of passing liberty on to our kids.

Undo what Wilson did

Geographical Organization

I am willing to admit I am in error if someone can point out any government that exists or has ever existed without geographical concentration.

A geographical majority of force sets the rules. Love it, hate it, but recognize that it isn't likely to ever change.

Michael Nystrom's picture

My advice on how we win?

Be friendly. Friendly trumps angry, in my opinion.

Yes, I'm exhausted. But I consider myself a leading indicator. I think people are getting more and more tired of the shrill tones everywhere. I'm ready to turn them off completely, and if that means the DP goes too, well, so be it.

Unless. Unless we're able to change the nature of the Daily Paul.

While generally I agree that excessive "conspiracy" focus is harmful, this just wouldn't be the DP without it. They're the entertainment. That's all the speculation is - something to occupy the mind. But it does keep things interesting around here, imo.

- - - - -

So I asked you before what it means to "Win" but I didn't feel like I got a good explanation. That's ok. I dont' think anyone really knows what that means. But this gives a clue: It is my honest hope that someone unites our country before we lose it.

My reading is that we will get so angry within that we go to war against ourselves. It's already at a low level conflict. Lots of agression between the grassroots of the parties; Lots of agression within the Republican party itself.

But how to you unite this country? Using what principles? Of course, we saw it done once, on a smaller scale. Can it happen at the national level?

If we want to win, we need to de-escalate, and start working with one another - not just in the GOP to go fight the Democrats.

(: No, you dumbasses :)

To unite together in love as human beings. That's how you win. With Love. What else is going to unite people? Love is the universal bonding agent of man and beast, young and old.

The other way to unite people is through fear and force. That's the path they're taking against us. We will NEVER win that battle. We're not equipped for it. You saw Boston. How do you stand up to that?

How do you win? Fight fear and force with peace and love. Sprinkle in a little gold. And we're golden.

All art is only done by the individual. The individual is all you ever have, and all schools only serve to classify their members as failures. E.H.

Micheal,

is it possible to find out why you've elected to see that I can no longer post, presuming that is what happened and it is not some mistake? Did you send out some notice or warning and I missed it?

Michael Nystrom's picture

Vince,

Sorry for not giving you "official" notice.

I took away your posting privileges because of the overall poor quality of your posts. I didn't ban you completely - you can still comment here (obviously).

This is a new feature that I'm exploring with the site. Not all opinions are created equal. Not all opinions deserve to be featured here.

You are one of the first to suffer this fate. There have been others, and there will, no doubt, be more.

All art is only done by the individual. The individual is all you ever have, and all schools only serve to classify their members as failures. E.H.

Lucky me

I just so happened to see this post and discover there is a new feature.. wow. You mean you can control what threads we post?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CtjhWhw2I8

By not defeating ourselves.

Visualize what it's supposed

Visualize what it's supposed to look like in your mind. Being told the truth even if it hurts and recognizing the repaired state.

Cyril's picture

How do we win? Here's how we can get a little closer to it maybe

How do we win? Here's how we can get a little closer to that, maybe:

by finding more alike him (1,000s ... 100,000s ...) among ourselves and getting out there with our own speeches, but same eloquence and soundness in the message:

("just" 6 & 1/2 minutes of genuine improvisation)


http://youtu.be/yfHWChrsYfk

Complete enough?

Or should he have added more?

"If we lose America, we have NOWHERE else to run for freedom, [...] we lose the world to the elites."

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

I'm of the mind that one should always pursue what makes one,

happy.

be it knowledge, activity, activism, projects, biz ventures, adventures, soul-ventures, etc.

and then...like Voltron, we coalesce as a coalition, when needed, as needed.

Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul served as that focal point. Now, it seems many of us are driving aimless, occasionally getting into a fender-bender, with each other, and missing the enemy convoy, altogether.

Not apathetic, but speaking strictly for myself, the past two election cycles have proved to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that political systems are not how one achieves a true change or lasting freedoms.

But, there is definitely a force in numbers, the critical mass of awakened citizenry. And IMO, that is the only thing that it will change to 'win.'

In some sense, it's really easy: we don't need to 'challenge' the Powers That Be. We in fact make them utterly irrelevant, simply by ignoring them.

Utopian? Nope.

That's the most hilariously scary part: all it takes is enough masses of people to all at once say "No thanks, Ruling Class jerkoffs!"

A simple "NO!" ALL AT ONCE.

Now, years ago, communications system being what it was, the physical presence, a show of force, directly in view of the Ruling Class was a must.

But now, once ideas spread, it's instantaneous, and physically 'showing up' is not directly proportional to the actual physical number of those who have awakened and are aware enough to act on them.

So for instance, the issue of practicality aside, those who understand the dangers of NDAA need not march on DC to make a point; more than enough of us know of it, enough to resist at local levels, as many already are.

So, making a point about 'visibly physical numbers' is not as a big of an issue, as it may once have been, in the ever repeating Free Humanity vs. Ruling Class forever entangled cycle of history.

Especially now, I'd submit that as long as an actual mental shift has been made among a critical mass of humans, enough for each of us to act on them, is all that is required.

So, the constant question in my mind is: 'are we there yet?'

Have we reached a critical mass? In my most optimistic days of observation, a lofty 30% of Americans are awake. On some days 5%. Who can be 100% certain, though?

But in the end, I figure, WHEN each of us know better than to NOT 'ask for permissions' TO change, or pursue feckless wishful thinking of 'hoping a-holes to become angels' and stop mistreating us, then the world would've changed, instantly.

Like, what if 90% of Watertown, MA said "NO!" to the illegal door-to-door warrantless SWAT raids? What? Would they have tear gassed or mowed down every single resident?

Nope.

Even tyrannies require a sheeple citizenry to give them the power. No slavery exists without the slave, at some level, willfully giving his/her master all the power in the world.

It has always been, and always will be the prison of the mind.

I've often repeated here that there's a reason WHY the Ruling Class expend what I'd estimate as 99% of all their efforts on mass brainwashing and propaganda.

There's a reason why in every single dictatorship, there are govt minders who censor thoughts and individual expressions of those thoughts, more than they actually put people to death, for the same reason since time immemorial: We, the always Freedom-longing 'peons' are many, 'They' are a few.

Always.

Thus, they always have to convince us, to police ourselves and each other. Not to mention, police our own thoughts, and each other's.

So, is there a 'winning' per-se?

In my mind, you win by accepting that you've ALREADY won, and start from there.

But, that is not to say that act as if you're already 'there,' there.

It's a shift in state of mind, with a specific goal in mind: I shall be free, when I am free, and live free, and others will do the same.

To certain extent, it is true that in a societal sense, one is only free as your neighbors are willing to LET you be. Be that as it may, if you're free in your own mind already, whether others physically "LET you be," becomes immaterial.

But, even your ratty nosy neighbor's actions originate from an operative belief system and an individual philosophy; they convince themselves that serving the tyrant is a 'greater good' and keeps their immediate reality more harmonious.

Hey, even acquiescent morons operate on some form of a philosophy: simple self-preservation (whatever form it may take).

We all know that ideas have killed more, and in fact liberated more souls, than any army or any weapon in history.

So the Human Family's story continues...

IMO, the Zen of it is, you've won, when you've decided that you HAVE won, from the get-go.

Everything else between the moment you decide in your mind that you've won, to you physically doing something about it, is just growing pains.

To wit: Agorism.

That, is the only answer I believe will work. It's simply developing a more attractive parallel competing by-pass system, to eventually making the statist paradigm utterly irrelevant.

I hate to say it, but in post SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, those who are most familiar with black markets will be the ones thriving. I too used to look on black markets with disdain. I don't just mean the violent ones ie (child-kidnapping/white-slavery rings, wet-works, etc) I'm speaking of ANY activity that has been natural and would be natural with or without govt presence, but one that is currently oppressively stifled by govt regulations.

Humans always spontaneously organize, find solutions as needed, supply trade and engage as needed.

The real question I've always pondered in depth, is how do you voluntarily continue the evolution of freedom principles, and have them last, without institutions. Well, the short answer is, you don't. Which begs the question; I'm sure during the Enlightenment Era, many of our ancestors must have come to a similar conclusion: an institution, a constant that can systematically embody human ideas and philosophies developed so far, is how one would ensure it.

But somewhere down the line, I believe the goal of a 'perpetual soul-university' or a 'library of the soul' somehow morphed into physical libraries and govt buildings, for maintaining the buildings' sake, not the original intent of perhaps using physical structure to house and foster a continuous search and evolutions of ideas developed so far, up to that said given point in each civilization's epoch in history.

So, while a complete 100% voluntary society maybe, realistically speaking, a damn near impossibility at this point, but so was the very notion of self-govt, in 1776, when tyrannies of monarchies and mercantilists were the norm. Well... speaking of the latter, we're still stuck in a fascist/corporatist mercantilist paradigm, but the current pitter patter we see all around us, I'd submit is the last throes of the dying mercantilists growing desperate.

There have never been a greater equalizer than technology.

The core difference today (despite some truth in the statement that Google has made us more 'stupid,' as we don't 'have to keep' all our memories...in the mind, but in the digital cloud, to be able to recall whenever we need something, as long as a browser interface is available): years ago, when new ideas developed, it was bound to select individuals, and physically bound in physical books.

Now, an idea can be concrete, stored and spread, instantaneously. It's a constantly evolving spontaneous order that constantly corrects itself via voluntary interactions by the millisecond.

Thus, long story short, while it may not be possible today, but pure voluntaryism is a worthy goal to pursue, just as 'self-govt' was a novel and worthy goal to accomplish, in 1776.

To me, we'll 'win' when we simply learn to recognize, that on the most part, 99% of human souls on earth practice practical 'anarchy' everyday, every moment that one does not directly come in contact with an agent of the state. Granted, they're hard to avoid, as there are physical implements of their ruling order all around us, from road signs, to building height. But strictly as a human-to-human interaction, 99% of our days are spent interacting with each other, voluntarily.

So in fact, "winning" truly means simply acknowledging the free state that we have always been in, always are, and always will be.

So on activism level, the apt question to inquire is, do we really 'win' anything via political elections? Or, do we only slow down the inevitable collapse of all implements of the State/the Leviathan?

Certainly, I support candidates who keep their oaths, use the current system we have to work our way out of it, or the most apropos use of it IMO, as so elegantly as Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul has done: use it as an educational platform to amplify great ideas that many have not heard.

But, like all transitional mechanisms within the confines of the existent status quo, they are a paradox: the more you use a pre-existent mechanism to work out of it, the more you legitimize it. Likewise, the more we keep engaging in fiat currency pegged economy, the more we legitimize the power of the Fed.Res. and the Ruling Class behind it.

So however small, the glimmer of freedom that we witness in every raw milk transactions/drinkers/farmers, organic food transactions/consumers/farmers, barters and exchanges, Bitcoins & other competing/parallel currencies, Gold & Silver and other commodities, etc., you may just be observing a small ripple that may turn into a tidal wave Tsunami!

But, of course, I could just be waxing poetic via my verbosity to convince myself that is the possible future. lol.

But hey, everything outside of us, always began with something inside of us, be it a single or a collection of thoughts coalesced into a single resolve, or internal catharses.

So, what I choose to believe, I choose to believe will manifest, if acted on it enough times by me, and those who think similarly.

So where were we?

Oh right, winning. lol.

I truly do believe, you've won already, when you decide you've won already.

It's always been a shift in the state of mind.

And, like all the things one may want to change in our spouses, family and friends, or whomever, if one's lived more than 5yrs on earth, it's hard NOT to recognize that no lasting change occurs until the individual has a deeply rooted internal reason to WANT to change: no one can make lasting changes, for them; they all have to do it on their own, individually, but more importantly, find an internal reason that prompts them to.

So, barring an alien invasion, our current course of history can only change when the enforcers of the corporatist state finally realize that participating in tyranny will doom them as well as those whom they despise.

So like it or not, fate has an unforgiving way of dealing with aberrations.

And if being part of an institutionalized guild of thuggery and assholes isn't an aberration of nature that karma frowns upon, I don't know what is.

It's just a matter of time.

And to a victorious end, speaking for myself, developing a parallel economy based on voluntaryism is the only way out of this, and in fact, is the only rational and logical evolution of human soul journey. With this much info available to us, I cannot imagine how we'd be moving 'forward' or 'win' by re-establishing another tax-based violent governing model.

And, seeing as how no tyrannical system has ever suddenly had a genuine catharsis and decided to stop itself, from itself, by itself, I'm afraid the current Fed. Reserve trajectory and the decidedly statist faction's will can only yield in the natural progression of fiat monetary system: a reboot to zero.

But the good thing is, the millisecond before, and after a currency collapse, talented skilled creative people will not lose any of their skills, knowledge or realization. And, the same natural resources below our feet will still be there to explore or steward. The only 'collapse' is our medium of exchange.

Thus we "win" simply by outlasting the bastards.

If anything, we should be feverishly making more liberty babies.o)

That, is how we "win." By outliving, outlasting, and out-breeding da bastaz!

Simple eh? LOL.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

We keep on keepin on

I don't know about you guys but I am involved in the local GOP doing everything I can to advance the ideas of liberty.

As I continue to work for a freer society, I realize more and more that this movement had little to do with Ron Paul himself and much to do with waking people up to the ideas of freedom.

Just as public education churns out armies of leftists and environmentalists, we need to work just as hard to churn out individuals with an understanding of the concepts of freedom. They don't teach that kind of stuff in school.

Call an AM radio show, get the word out on the airwaves. Go to your GOP meetings and conventions. Look for truth in the sea of lies.

I thought I'd be done once RP was done, but I am far from done. I just keep on keepin on in the liberty movement.

The rEVOLution is alive and well!

The founders would be ashamed at us for what we are putting up with.

How can we be free mired in the collective lie?

How can we be free mired in the collective lie?

The signer's of the Declaration if Independence conspired to be free of monarchical rule.

Conspiracy's happen all the time, The signatories to the Articles of Confederation conspired to create a government.

Time after time I've watched this country buy into one collective lie after another.

Mostly they've involved manufactured conspiracy theories convenient for the central planners.

The divisiveness that looks like is tearing us apart, I would argue is a manufactured reality. With boots on the ground. That is Public Relations. Make events happen or appear to happen.

A dozen people watched Saddam's statue being toppled, besides the camera crews and security details. It was reality TV.

Buy the lie an the program that goes with it. There never was 47% of the eligible voters who approved of invading the Middle East for 10 years, $5 Trillion, thousands of lives snuffed and tens of thousands severely damaged.

It may look us look crazy to some, but we are nit making a product passing as news. If we are fact-checking and they are not.

I does make them look dishonorable when they report misinformation as fact.

Free includes debt-free!

Cyril's picture

Guess why I shared about one of my all time favorite thinkers

I would argue is a manufactured reality. With boots on the ground. That is Public Relations. Make events happen or appear to happen [...] A dozen people watched Saddam's statue being toppled, besides the camera crews and security details. It was reality TV.

Guess why I shared about one of my all time favorite thinkers with my fellow Daily Paulers... here's a tidbit, coming right from his 17th century (quoting) :

http://www.dailypaul.com/278630

"All great amusements are dangerous to the Christian life; but among all those which the world has invented there is none more to be feared than the theatre. It is a representation of the passions so natural and so delicate that it excites them and gives birth to them in our hearts, and, above all, to that of love, principally when it is represented as very chaste and virtuous. For the more innocent it appears to innocent souls, the more they are likely to be touched by it. Its violence pleases our self-love, which immediately forms a desire to produce the same effects which are seen so well represented; and, at the same time, we make ourselves a conscience founded on the propriety of the feelings which we see there, by which the fear of pure souls is removed, since they imagine that it cannot hurt their purity to love with a love which seems to them so reasonable.

So we depart from the theatre with our heart so filled with all the beauty and tenderness of love, the soul and the mind so persuaded of its innocence, that we are quite ready to receive its first impressions, or rather to seek an opportunity of awakening them in the heart of another, in order that we may receive the same pleasures and the same sacrifices which we have seen so well represented in the theatre."

... (emphasis mine)

To which our 20th and 21st centuries, I think, ought to reply with: "Ouch!"

For I am afraid Pascal was very right on the effects of theatre over our average souls, and not only about Christians. Not AT ALL.

Wasn't he?

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Language is the vessel

Perhaps it is our task to put new wine in new skins.

To tell the stories of today, by recognizing common themes, saving the good ones from the dustbin of history, is that productive?

From Ralph Waldo Emerson 1841
http://www.emersoncentral.com/selfreliance.htm
"Trust thyself: every heart vibrates to that iron string. Accept the place the divine providence has found for you, the society of your contemporaries, the connection of events. Great men have always done so, and confided themselves childlike to the genius of their age, betraying their perception that the absolutely trustworthy was seated at their heart, working through their hands, predominating in all their being. And we are now men, and must accept in the highest mind the same transcendent destiny; and not minors and invalids in a protected corner, not cowards fleeing before a revolution, but guides, redeemers, and benefactors, obeying the Almighty effort, and advancing on Chaos and the Dark."

I find it difficult to find time to appreciate all the great comments I've read. Sometimes I wonder what's the use?

Is it foresight or providence that challenges me. The only answer is to question honestly and to answer true. If my thinking conforms with reality then that part is genuine. I can only find out by being aware of my thinking, IMO.

We just keep moving forward. I have benefited from your insights, Cyril.

Once I am healthy. I have work to do and debts to pay. After these last 3 years, DP provided day long distraction during my coalescence.

Soon I'll be off peddling the nutrition system that restored my health. New times always replace the old. What will they bring?

Merci, mon ami.

Free includes debt-free!

Seriously

As a Catholic, it is my understanding that there is freedom with Jesus, the rest is the world, a lie, or I think of it as illusion.

Yes.

I also was raised in the Catholic tradition with German and Polish Catholic ancestors. I graduated from a Catholic High School.

Not unlike the one George Carlin described. Medieval and Prussian methods were abandoned tending more toward the truths of post-Kantian speculation. We discussed Simon and Garfunkel musical poetry. We practiced meditation in class 40 years ago.

Lumen gentium. Isn't this a recognition of grassroots. The Church is what we make it as individuals traveling toward God, as best we can. With a little help from our friends.

But here is what worries me, Granger my friend. When doctors and dentists put two different metals in the bodies electrolyte, a battery is made. It is like carrying you own tazer. Gall bladder clips and dental fillings makes two. Nothing touches the pain.

I don't think you are dyslexic, I read your posts back in September 2008.

My wife had to get 30+ titanium clips removed to stop the pain. Results were immediate the minute she awoke from being fileted like a fish.

She awoke from here appendix operation and said, "they left a scalpel in me." She awoke from the removal surgery saying, "They're gone!"

I noticed some similarities, so I sent this true story.

Free includes debt-free!

I really think everyone should take good RCIA classes

If it's not dyslexia, I don't know.. but I'm really not getting the help I need to see letters, which has thrown off my spelling..

I agree with you that the Church is what we make it, and for me, it's been good.

That is an amazing story about your wife. Is her pain gone?

I was baptized when I was a baby by an Aunt, my godmother.. my parents were not catholic and I did not grow up near my Aunt. I explored many religions, non-religion/ spiritual paths, and when I came to the Church.. I was at home. I do not believe it is home for everyone, and why there are so many Churches that are just right for them. I am not going to judge.. just LOVE my God, my Church, my community with all my heart (extended to DP community).

30+ titanium clips wow

Yes, pain gone.

Without a second metal, no battery present.

She nearly lost a tooth. The battery dissolved the root. Have X-rays, it only took 4 months of pain. It stopped for her when the battery was disabled.

The effects is to scramble thinking, making it harder.

Some people get pain, some act crazy, some get scrambled.

Free includes debt-free!

I don't have any metal

so I don't have that as an excuse.

deacon's picture

paul.s

found your website link,took a bit,you know,seeing you took it off
your comments
filled out the form,so you can call me
deacon

setting your expectations to high,can cause depression

Doctors didn't inform us directly, but when they added more

Doctors didn't inform us directly, but when they added more metal it got worse.

We din't know for years. Doctors thought she was crazy and looking for pain meds. Prayed a lot.

Free includes debt-free!

(((((((Paul_S.))))))))

I pray I will remember this when and if I meet someone who has two kinds of metal and a lot of pain. THANK YOU, GOD BLESS YOU AND YOU WIFE.

Hossanna in the highest!

Well, the Demons and Angels

Well, the Demons and Angels want this planet for their own. this is a bad*ss planet. No lie there. No illusion. Even though it is an illusion, and we are just waves of energy and souls.

There are some planets in this universe where the trees bend down to you and hand you their fruits. no joke. This planet could be such a planet where the plants and trees show reveal more of their consciousness to us, but we have to rid the world of Satan's influence.

lawrence

I don't know

It seems the more I learn the less I know, and I don't know why, and maybe it's because knowing why is not so important that knowing that I love God with all my heart, and I am grateful to God.. honestly, I think I would have made a great nun. :))

We win by continuing to seek

We win by continuing to seek the truth and pointing it out to others when we find it. I hope I'm wrong but I believe it's going to be a long process.

We want change quickly but until there is a critical mass of liberty minded voters change will be incremental at best. At least there is some hope today, weak as it is. For decades, even hope was dormant.

Never trouble trouble til trouble troubles you. Fortune Cookie

DP is not handheld friendly

How do we unite the country? How do we defeat our opponents?

It is up to us. Make no mistake about it. Ron Paul was the last voice we had. His influence cannot be measured.

My sentimental value is shadowed by action.

HOW DO WE DEFEAT OUR OPPONENTS?????

'Peace is a powerful message.' Ron Paul

Find one sheriff

in the country who's suceptible to a defeat. Replace him with someone willing to uphold his oath of office. Move in. Rinse. Repeat.

(But let's start with one)

????

"Ron Paul was the last voice we had."

Was???? Had????

This is the last time that you will fall asleep during class before I send you to the principals office P. Nicholson.

P., are you not aware that Ron has been touring college campuses? I just saw him less than two weeks ago! The place was packed!!

But yes, it is up to us to help Ron carry the torch.

We. Are. Winning!!

If you are stuck and need help, pm me. I and others have been working together, it would be awesome to have others on board :-)

2014 Liberty Candidate Thread: http://www.dailypaul.com/287246/2014-liberty-candidate-thread

2016 Potential Presidential Candidates: http://alturl.com/mt7tq

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul