8 votes

When The Foundations of Society Are Force Theft and Fraud


http://youtu.be/t5FNDRgPOLs

How long can it Hold together? If you wonder why our society is crumbling this is why. Warning this pure unadulterated truth may challenge your beliefs even here on the DP. I doubt this will be a popular thread but we have got to start facing our illusions. Thanks to Desert Rat for posting this on another thread. I felt it deserved it's own. We'll see how well it goes over...

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The Time has Come

These "Mile-markers" have been passed.
And these words illustrate it most clearly:

"From the day on which an accommodation takes place between England and America, on any other terms than as independent States, I shall date the ruin of this country...."

" In a state of tranquillity, wealth, and luxury, our descendants would forget the arts of war and the noble activity and zeal which made their ancestors invincible...."

"When the spirit of liberty, which now animates our hearts and gives success to our arms, is extinct, our numbers will accelerate our ruin and render us easier victims to tyranny..."

Thank You Josf for posting these all-too-relevant "words".
Thank You Mister Adams for your foresight, sounding an alarm that has been all-to-readily ignored....until now.

"Beyond the blackened skyline, beyond the smoky rain, dreams never turned to ashes up until.........
...Everything CHANGED !!

Reason

Adam of Modern Times claims to be an Anarchist.

So what is his advice concerning the fate of Mankind World Wide, or just this Country, or just one State, or just one County, or just one City, or just one Family, or just one Business, or just one person?

What is the positive message?

I did not offer ONLY the message offered by Sam Adams when Sam Adams spoke during the time when enough people found competitive ways to fight against the bad guys.

I offered words by George Mason too.

Why?

There was a way working, to fight against the bad guys in that time between 1776 and 1788, and it worked.

Is it worth knowing?

Is it worth knowing better?

Is there positive, productive, information worth knowing, worth communicating, so as to effectively fight against the bad guys?

Is it better to argue, or is it better to find where viewpoints agree?

The Time has Come for what, exactly?

If you look, please look, and you do not find Free Market Government in Defense of Liberty, in that time period between 1776 and 1788, and you think you may have missed something, then I can show you what I found.

Call it Anarchism, call it Liberty, call it Effective Investments Fighting The Bad Guys, or call it Fried Chicken, who cares what name is used, so long as it works?

Joe

Can anyone really pass the test?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY7E5QIAOaQ
Or is it cruel of the people to put "leaders" in the position of being so tested? Is the "need" to be governed a symptom of our laziness, an unwillingness to accept full responsibility for our lives?

Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.

Adams

http://www.nationalcenter.org/SamuelAdams1776.html

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The hand of Heaven appears to have led us on to be, perhaps, humble instruments and means in the great providential dispensation which is completing. We have fled from the political Sodom; let us not look back lest we perish and become a monument of infamy and derision to the world. For can we ever expect more unanimity and a better preparation for defense; more infatuation of counsel among our enemies, and more valor and zeal among ourselves? The same force and resistance which are sufficient to procure us our liberties will secure us a glorious independence and support us in the dignity of free imperial States. We can not suppose that our opposition has made a corrupt and dissipated nation more friendly to America, or created in them a greater respect for the rights of mankind. We can therefore expect a restoration and establishment of our privileges, and a compensation for the injuries we have received from their want of power, from their fears, and not from their virtues. The unanimity and valor which will effect an honorable peace can render a future contest for our liberties unnecessary. He who has strength to chain down the wolf is a madman if he let him loose without drawing his teeth and paring his nails.

From the day on which an accommodation takes place between England and America, on any other terms than as independent States, I shall date the ruin of this country. a politic minister will study to lull us into security by granting us the full extent of our petitions. The warm sunshine of influence would melt down the virtue which the violence of the storm rendered more firm and unyielding. In a state of tranquillity, wealth, and luxury, our descendants would forget the arts of war and the noble activity and zeal which made their ancestors invincible. Every art of corruption would be employed to loosen the bond of union which renders our resistance formidable. When the spirit of liberty, which now animates our hearts and gives success to our arms, is extinct, our numbers will accelerate our ruin and render us easier victims to tyranny. Ye abandoned minions of an infatuated ministry, if peradventure any should yet remain among us, remember that a Warren and Montgomery are numbered among the dead. Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say, What should be the reward of such sacrifices? Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship, and plow, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom--go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!
________________________________________

The true cost, the full measure, if what happens to a Country full of people when Liberty is thrown out and replaced with Absolute Abject Belief in Falsehood Without Question.

Note the eloquent, artistic, command of English in any case where anyone is no longer under the spell of EVIL?

The time in America before 1788, and before the Sovereign State Limited Constitutional Governments were thrown out and replaced with a Consolidated Nation State, exemplifies something that may be worth understanding better.

To say that this Obamination is a constitutionally limited government POWER is justifiably so long as the speaker, and those who want to know the truth, understand that they are speaking about the limits of lies.

The limits of lies are limits placed upon the victims of lies by those who invent those lies, such as Hamilton's Promises in The Federalists Papers to limit the power of Taxation once he, as Dictator, stole that power from the The People and their States.

Yes, it is true, almost everything we have been led to believe is opposite of the truth.

The Federal Constitution is not Federal, it is National, and it was a Fraud from the start: do your own research if you want to know the truth.

http://teachingamericanhistory.org/ratification/elliot/vol3/...

________________________________________________
Mr. GEORGE MASON. Mr. Chairman, whether the Constitution be good or bad, the present clause clearly discovers that it is a national government, and no longer a Confederation. I mean that clause which gives the first hint of the general government laying direct taxes. The assumption of this power of laying direct taxes does, of itself, entirely change the confederation of the states into one consolidated government. This power, being at discretion, unconfined, and without any kind of control, must carry every thing before it. The very idea of converting what was formerly a confederation to a consolidated government, is totally subversive of every principle which has hitherto governed us. This power is calculated to annihilate totally the state governments. Will the people of this great community submit to be individually taxed by two different and distinct powers? Will they suffer themselves to be doubly harassed? These two concurrent powers cannot exist long together; the one will destroy the other: the general government being paramount to, and in every respect more powerful than the state governments, the latter must give way to the former. Is it to be supposed that one national government will suit so extensive a country, embracing so many climates, and containing inhabitants so very different in manners, habits, and customs? It is ascertained, by history, that there never was a government over a very extensive country without destroying the liberties of the people: history also, supported by the opinions of the best writers, shows us that monarchy may suit a large territory, and despotic governments ever so extensive a country, but that popular governments can only exist in small territories. Is there a single example, on the face of the earth, to support a contrary opinion? Where is there one exception to this general rule? Was there ever an instance of a general national government extending over so extensive a country, abounding in such a variety of climates, &c., where the people retained their liberty? I solemnly declare that no man is a greater friend to a firm union of the American states than I am; but, sir, if this great end can be obtained without hazarding the rights of the people, why should we recur to such dangerous principles? Requisitions have been often refused, sometimes from an impossibility of complying with them; often from that great variety of circumstances which retards the collection of moneys; and perhaps sometimes from a wilful design of procrastinating. But why shall we give up to the national government this power, so dangerous in its nature, and for which its members will not have sufficient information? Is it not well known that what would be a proper tax in one state would be grievous in another? The gentleman who hath favored us with a eulogium in favor of this system, must, after all the encomiums he has been pleased to bestow upon it, acknowledge that our federal representatives must be unacquainted with the situation of their constituents. Sixty-five members cannot possibly know the situation and circumstances of all the inhabitants of this immense continent. When a certain sum comes to be taxed, and the mode of levying to be fixed, they will lay the tax on that article which will be most productive and easiest in the collection, without consulting the real circumstances or convenience of a country, with which, in fact, they cannot be sufficiently acquainted.
___________________________________________________

Joe

It is a great speech and

It is a great speech and sentiment with lofty goals unfortunately it did not pan out that way. Government instituted force and theft right from the get go. Not that most of the founders did not have good intentions but they suffered under the same illusions most of us still do. That government force coercion and theft can be wielded morally ethically and over all benefit of the people fairly. Unfortunately it benefited a few at the expense of many. It very existence and sustenance requires force theft and coercion.

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End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

Who is as yet confused?

Who is as yet duped?

You or I?

Please help me see.

The criminals will set their rate of pay, and if the victims do nothing but pay, what do you think will be the result?

Of course the victims may, if they are victims, be forced into defensive action.

Your words:

"It very existence and sustenance requires force theft and coercion."

What is "it?"

I think, and you can think otherwise, and I can demonstrate, and I would appreciate any opposing demonstration, that "it" is a lie, if "it" is some nebulous phantom called "government."

If there is a list of names where all the people on that list invest their individual power of production into one thing, then that one thing can be called "it," in this case?

Government does not have to be evil, at all, and I think that fact was demonstrated in between 1776 and 1788, despite the fact that many people were choosing to be evil.

A Power struggle can be won by lies, but such a defeat is whose responsibility?

The well paid liars?

Joe

There was no government from

There was no government from 1776 to 1788.

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

We are speaking?

Are we speaking at each other?

On July 4th 1776 a Revolutionary Government was formed in America based upon The Spirit of Liberty.

That Spirit was Legislated out of existence in 1788.

You and I are clearly not on the same page.

Joe

What government was formed?

What government was formed? There was no government just a declaration of freedom and independence and then voluntary cooperation in its defense...

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

Free Market Governments

Self-governments were formed.

Family governments were formed.

Trials by Jury were formed.

Religious governments were formed.

Town governments were formed.

Constitutionally Limited State Governments were formed.

There was a Constitutional Congress formed, and from it was formed a Democratic Federated Republic, or Confederation, under The Articles of Confederation.

Shays's Rebellion was the name placed onto the events that prove the formation of both Free Market Governments and the opposite which were Despotic States, at the same time.

If you prefer not to see it, then don't see it, and I won't waste my time providing the evidence to someone who prefers not to see it.

Joe

my vote is you

you say government doesn't have to be evil, but isn't that saying theft and coercion don't have to be evil?

I can explain.

Who would listen?

Theft is theft, demonstrated by every thief each time the thief thieves. Why cover that up with the word government?

If if is theft then that is what it is, and who is to say if it is theft or not, and which method do you prefer when you are the thief?

Trial by Jury based up Sortition worked.

I read about it here:

http://www.barefootsworld.net/trial01.html

I can go into great detail concerning this viewpoint I have, which is not mine alone, whereby the concept of self-government, or Free Market Government, works, and it works the way it works, when it works the way it works, and there are examples.

If the word government is a synonym for theft, according to you, then it may be difficult for me to understand the process by which you prefer in avoiding being victim to theft, unless it is your understanding that being a thief is how to avoid being a victim of theft.

I can ask.

What method do you prefer yourself, something I can copy, and use myself, to avoid being a victim of theft?

Same goes for coercion.

Here is a measure of concern along those lines:

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

To me that is not government.

To me that is inculpatory evidence defining a crime in progress.

That crime in progress happens to be the so called "Law of the Land."

Crimes made Legal is one thing.

Due Process of Law is not the same thing, or is it according to you?

Joe

I understand that you can

I understand that you can have theft without the government, I wasn't making that statement at all, what I'm asking you to explain to me is how you can have government without theft...

I can try to be more precise.

"I'm asking you to explain to me is how you can have government without theft..."

If there are no criminals...

You pick out one type of crime, theft, so it is very specific, very precise, or is it ambiguous?

If there is one person in one place at one time and that one person plans, and then begins to execute the single crime of theft upon one targeted victim, then that crime in progress can be avoided theoretically.

If it is a theory, then it is a theory that government can be used to avoid that crime in progress.

If the crime is actually avoided, the victim is not made into a victim, and therefore the criminal is not able to commit the theft, then government moves past the concept of being government and it becomes an established example of government being real.

Does that message convey well from me to you?

Joe

Ever heard of the whisky

Ever heard of the whisky rebellion? That's the most well known incident in history. No sooner had the founders formed a new government then they begin stealing from the people and using force to get it. Theft is the taking of money or property against ones will. Government in the USA has never existed without force theft and coercion; ever!

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

Shays's Rebellion

The Whiskey Rebellion was a means by which The Spirit of Liberty was Crushed by Generalisimo Washington.

Earlier in American History was the Last Battle of the Revolution fought in Massachusetts, it became known as Shays's Rebellion, and it was from those events that the Central Bankers of the day, the people I call Legal Criminals, had to invent their Consolidated Nation State, and they set about their plans to destroy Liberty, enslave everyone they can enslave with lies, threats, and violence, and they hatched that evil plan in Philadelphia in 1787.

Here are some references:

http://www.power-independence.com/archive/2013/07-20index.html

There was Free Market Government between 1776 ad 1788, afterwards it was Crime made Legal.

Joe

What a powerful video!

What a powerful video!

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".
--Voltaire

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

USA foundation is not force theft and fraud

it is a constitution and bill of rights which some of us are working to restore rather than perpetuation a fall from a frying pan into the fire of never never land.

It helps to watch the video

It helps to watch the video first and then see if you can attempt a coherent argument against what is presented therein.

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

Government is FORCE!

Take away the force and you wouldn't have a government. But the authoritarian sociopaths who love to rule and control other people use deceit and lies to make you think what they are doing is something else.