23 votes

U.S. Government and NATO Worked with Bin Laden and His Top Lieutenant 3 Months AFTER 9/11

By way of background, the former Italian Prime Minister, an Italian judge, and the former head of Italian counterintelligence admit that NATO, with the help of the Pentagon and CIA, carried out terror bombings in Italy and other European countries in the 1950s and blamed the communists, in order to rally people’s support for their governments in Europe in their fight against communism.

As one participant in this formerly-secret program stated: “You had to attack civilians, people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple. They were supposed to force these people, the Italian public, to turn to the state to ask for greater security” (and see this)(Italy and other European countries subject to the terror campaign had joined NATO before the bombings occurred).

This was codenamed “Operation Gladio”. And watch this BBC special. And see this for background.

Edmonds says that some portions of Operation Gladio are continuing to this day, and that Ayman al-Zawahiri and Bin Laden worked for NATO and the Pentagon as part of Operation Gladio:

MORE|SOURCE|VIDEOS
http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/report-u-s-governm...




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That is just an example of a

That is just an example of a mistake, we all know that would be a governments one and ONLY mistake.......that we KNOW off.......DAMN! a contradiction

offtopic

Sometimes there are somethings that are so simple, that when a person argues it complicated, they are found suspect, and sometimes when a complicated issue is argued as something simple, .....they are found suspect

Recent example
The importance of life vs attacking syria

Sometimes the two go hand in hand, and sometimes we are just not informed to know the details and thus make a decission based on the facts......facts that regardless of content should be based on truth

Sorry for my offtopicness, "ideaological" mussings....again........best way i can possibly describe it in one word, at this point in time, is, its like therapy......or more of a discovering of ones self, and a hope that someone who gets me, in the way that people can think like one another, may be further along the road to me and perhaps jumpstart my journey, in the way that i can understand, because of being like minded, they may be able to explain it in ways, using the right words, right sentences, understanding, and describing their thoughts.....purely because we by our very natures are alike, we relate to one another

Again, i have to say im sorry, there is no editorial consideration past "Sorry for my offtopicness, "ideaological" mussings....again", it is quite literally, thoughts being written down as i think on the subject, sorry if that kind of thing is nonsensical.....if that is the right term, hell im not even to sure its a word......let alone the right spelling

sharkhearted's picture

Actually, liberty lovers up vote.

Don't worry dude. You will get your government paycheck to disinform her.

But I have to ask you this question: How do you sleep with yourself at night?

Seriously....at some point...you have to man up and face the effing evidence.

What can you offer, better than Sibel Edmonds?

I thought so (not).

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

You remind me kind of myself, circa 2004.

Very confrontational, and paranoid sounding. You'll grow out of it, significantly so when you 'Ron Paul' yourself and see that the Peaceful way gets the best results.

When was it that you posted at the DailyPaul that you'd "woken up," inparticularly, regarding 9/11 conspiracy, mid-2012? I don't feel like searching through your comments, but I am going to say mid-2012.

I am YEARS ahead of you. Years. Literally and figuratively.

The problem with saying I have to "face the effing evidence," is that I have been actively paying attention to these subjects since May 2003. You? Mid-2012. That's almost 10 YEARS your senior.

For the most part, I like you. But when you act on emotion, I feel a kind of quasi-deja vu from ~2003-2004. It's funny, and I say that without insult. Just some ironic feeling.

I don't work for any government agency or any government for that matter. That includes intel, counterintel, fusion center, "independent contractor," etc.

I also usually sleep good most nights, although sometimes when I have to work early the next day, I have difficulty falling asleep.

You want to trust Sibel? Okay. I am literally almost 10 years ahead of you. I don't trust Sibel.

Watch her deposition, neutrally. In its entirety.

Yeah, you gotta wonder how

Yeah, you gotta wonder how they can live with themselves with what they are up to. Frustrating, but don't feed them especially if they are the ones that make the OP...let their posts die quickly.

sharkhearted's picture

GOOD POINT

~

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

Sibel Edmonds, really?! (trolls, down vote.)

I'd like to support her, but I just can't.

Part of me wants to say, "hey, she's an attractive, well spoken young lady who knows a lot about a lot of important things." While the more dominant part of me says, "hey, remember watching her 2009 deposition?! yeah. she's a liar. don't trust her."

I recommend you watch Sibel's deposition and that you pay close attention to her mannerisms. Watch in its entirety, and watch neutrally.

A person who says some truth, who also mixes with some lies or a lot of lies, isn't a person I trust (no matter how "good" they appear.)

My advice: Use caution regarding who you trust, that includes Sibel.

Nose scratching/rubbing; face mannerisms, face "fixing"/primping; saying things that aren't corroborated and independently verifiable (ie. "insider info/trust me"); having to look to her "handler" for permission to answer; darting eyes; posture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnrYIacu6hM

She's lying, while also saying some truth. But she's lying and a liar.

LOL

Uh, no.

RonPaulWins2012, I'm sure you meant well, but you know what's wrong with what you said above?

Everything.

Your entire assertion after watching her deposition that "she's lying and a liar", is 100% purely based on your "feelings," alone.

Aside from the fact that you have not established why your particular brand of body-language reading 'skills' are more credible than any of ours, your feeling-based assessment is worth what, exactly??

Nose scratching/rubbing; face mannerisms, face "fixing"/primping; saying things that aren't corroborated and independently verifiable (ie. "insider info/trust me"); having to look to her "handler" for permission to answer; darting eyes; posture.

So..."nose scratching/rubbing" is a guilty 'tell'??

Ron Paul did/does that plenty! OMG! OMG! OMG! 'Ronald Ernest Paul must be a liar, too!'

Um, NOT!

face "fixing"/primping

?????

Um...no offense, but have you ever lived with a woman in your entire life? Psst...they kinda DO that.

Oh wait, even men do that! LOL. Not judging. Just sayin'

But really dude?

saying things that aren't corroborated and independently verifiable (ie. "insider info/trust me")

You know WHO says things like that? Those who are simply too lazy to verify plenty of publicly available info, on their own. So not "corroborated" by YOU, or YOU not bothering to verify something yourself, automatically = 'she's lying!' ???

Uh, no, my friend. Nope.

You do realize there's a reason why GWB admin put the biggest most broadest application of National Security letters on her, earning her the infamous/dubious title of "the most gagged women in US history," right?

Sibel's work for the FBI as a translator is not in dispute, by ANYONE. Not Fein, Not FBI, even her enemies at American-Turkish Council (A.T.C.) and the Assembly of Turkish American Associations (A.T.A.A.).

In fact her own intelligence circles are vetted by those even prominent within the R3VOLution circles: Philip Giraldi.

Giraldi was head of CIA's Counter-Intel unit in Europe during the Cold War who specialized in Turkey, Italy, Germany, and Spain. The hotbed of Gladio.

And you know whom he trusts, and vetted publicly? Sibel Edmonds.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/philip-giraldi/sibel-edmonds-m...
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/whos-afraid-...
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/sibel-edmond...

You know why?

Because he's fluent in Turkish, Italian, German, and Spanish, and could vet via his sources, her assertions about the CIA-Turkish-NeoCon nexus.

Here's Philip directly addressing implausible doubters like you, RonPaulWins2012:

Listening to Sibel Edmonds

by Philip Giraldi, September 24, 2009

To those who claim that Sibel Edmonds is a fraud and that she is propagating lies for reasons of her own I would observe the following: Sibel has been interrogated by two US Senators, by the Justice Department’s Inspector General’s Office, and by suspicious fact checkers working for the television news program 60 Minutes, for the Times of London, and for Vanity Fair. She has been found to be a credible witness by everyone who has taken the time to talk to her and no one has ever been able to disprove any aspect of her story.

So, RonPaulWins2012, have YOU been vetted by 2 US Senators, DoJ IG's office, CBS 60min, Times of London, Vanity fair, and by anyone who has taken time to try to disprove ALL your assertions?

Still doubt her?

Well, here's what Philip would also like to tell you:

Could it be that Sibel Edmonds is a clever and possibly even diabolical fraud artist who has manipulated me and others? Of course it’s possible, though I would point out that she has convinced a number of skeptics that there is substance to her allegations. I for one spent twenty years in Army intelligence and the CIA listening regularly to scoundrels, liars, and thieves spin their tales. If Sibel Edmonds is a fabricator, she is a damned good one.

So, I'd like to ask ya, seeing as how we know nothing about you, have YOU spent 20yrs in US Army Intel/CIA honing your 'body-language reading skills' from having actually dealt with professional spies, international con-artists, and outright criminals who spun tales for a living?

Do YOU have Giraldi's 20yr+ professionally honed body-language reading skills, not just reading your run of the mill Joe-Schmo off the street, but professional spies, who are better liars than Oscar Award winning actors/actresses?

Because Philip, clearly has. And he believes Sibel's assertions.

Oh no, he's not done with you yet:

I would also note that there is a fundamental flaw to the criticism of Sibel, which is that she claims that every single statement made by her is backed up by actual documents in FBI investigative files dealing with the activities of foreign agents who were suborning our elected officials and senior bureaucrats. She has even provided the numbers of the files. At the end of the day, either the files and the evidence they contain are there or they are not. If they are not, then the government should make its case publicly that fraud is being committed by Sibel and her supporters and take whatever legal action they consider to be appropriate. I would suggest that the silence from the government over this matter in itself confirms that the allegations are true in EVERY detail.

Do you have actual intel files that can be confirmed by the FBI, her former employer, now her enemy?

No?

So, now ask yourself, if you were a DailyPaul member reading your assertions, between YOU, Giraldi and Sibel, whom do you suppose is the most trustworthy?

Do you know why one would be wiser to respect, 'trust but verify' Giraldi, more than YOU or your assertions?

Because Philip Giraldi also happened to be Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul's foreign policy advisor. But was also principled enough to NOT support Rand's decision to endorse Mutt WRONGney, for all the reasons that many of us have.

http://original.antiwar.com/giraldi/2013/02/20/rand-dont-nee...
http://original.antiwar.com/giraldi/2012/06/13/endorsing-evi...

Not to say that Rand may actually be playing the political game with sincere intent of 'changing from within,' but Giraldi, like many of us, assessed that after all these yrs of Ron Paul waking up the nation since he really exploded in 2007, it would be a step backward to endorse Romney and the foreign policy he represents.

So, having stated all of the above, no offense, but frankly the only person without any established credibility here, is you.

So, pardon me as I'd rather 'trust but verify' Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul, Philip Giraldi, and Sibel Edmonds, over YOU, my dearest RonPaulWins2012.

Cheers, Lad.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

-

In reply to AnCap

I'll have to read through the links you provided.

I partly agree with what you said about me. Yes, my belief that 'she lies and is a liar' is based on “feelings,” or as would be a more correct definition, based on being able to correctly read people.

Sibel, during her deposition, clearly exhibits several tell tale signs of a person who's lying and she does so throughout. ie. Her many mannerism and body language cues. Although there is voluminous information online, you could use this compilation as a primer:

http://www.wikihow.com/Detect-Lies

A few choice quotes from the above link.

Detecting Lies in Body Language Tics

(3)“Watch out for fidgeting. A sign that someone is lying is that they fidget, either with their own body or with random things around them. Fidgeting results from nervous energy produced by a fear of being found out. In order to release the nervous energy, liars often fidget with a chair, a handkerchief, or a part of their body.” [Note: Fidgeting with her cup, arms, hair, face, etc.]
(7)“Notice the behavior of other body parts. Watch the person's hands, arms and legs. In a non-stressful situation, people tend to be comfortable and take up space by being expansive in hand and arm movements, perhaps sprawling their legs comfortably. In a lying person, these parts of the body will tend to be limited, stiff, and self-directed.[4] The person's hands may touch his or her face, ear, or the back of the neck. Folded arms, interlocked legs and lack of hand movements can be a sign of not wanting to give away information.”
- “Liars tend to avoid hand gestures that we consider a normal part of discussion or conversation.” [note: Sibel is mostly motionless throughout her testimony, her arms crossed or hands clasped; very minimal body language emphasis to what she's saying.]
- “Grooming behaviors are common in liars, such as playing with hair” [note: And also in Sibel's case, along with her hair, unnecessarily primping her eyebrows; other upkeep of her lying face “mask.”]

Tips

-Some people are extremely experienced or even professional liars. He or she has told their made up story so many times that they are actually believable, getting all their days, dates and times down perfectly! In reality, our memories are reformed a little every time we retell them, so making up memories to deceive oneself isn't so unusual either. Sometimes, you may need to simply accept that you can't catch every lie all the time.

When you've finished reading through the entire list, re-watch Sibel's deposition. And as I have already said, watch neutrally. Myself, I won't watch again. I don't trust her, don't want to listen to her.

My belief is also based on when I watched her deposition and was trying to corroborate a lot of what she said (and I am fast using the internet,) there wasn't supporting documentation or information for a lot of her claims.

A lot of what she said was presented with a, “just trust me.” No thank you. If you feel so inclined, perhaps you could fact check then provide ALL supporting documentation for all of her many non-corroboratble claims. Good luck.

In 2006, regarding 9/11 Truth (in this case Twoof,) I called out both Jim Fetzer and Morgan Reynolds as being lying frauds - well before anyone else had. After Fetzer | Reynolds showed more of their fraudulence, what I had pointed out became widely acknowledged as truth.

Jim Fetzer went on to start yapping about “no planes at the WTC” to “exotic space weapons caused the WTC towers' destruction.” Pure, purposeful disinformation. Morgan Reynolds, from the Bush administration 1st term, also said as much.

See this about Fetzer, any of his replies are by 'Jim' or 'James Ha':

http://911blogger.com/news/2006-09-25/easily-showing-jim-fet...

I don't have the links regarding Reynolds. I forgot my 911Blogger password and don't have access anymore to the email account I used for that site. I haven't used that site for years. I also can't search through 911Blogger by my user name (for comments) because my user name there was symbols and isn't searchable.

However, this was a quickly written reply of mine regarding Reynolds:

http://911blogger.com/news/2006-09-25/easily-showing-jim-fet...

[...] I wrote at 911Blogger at least a few times in June 2006 that Morgan Reynolds is an agent of disinformation and destruction, months before he started proudly promoting, supporting and propagating "no planes at the WTC" or "no commercial airliners at the WTC". When I wrote that, months prior to him outting himself, nobody at 911Blogger wanted to believe me. And now, after late-August, the general concensus is that Reynolds is a fraud and/or agent of some sort. Even though I was already strongly suspicious of Reynolds before June 2006 -- since he came from the Bush administration, and early on in his "9/11 truth" articles, he was pushing "hologram missiles at the WTC" bull s h i t -- it was in June, I believe, when Kevin Barrett had Reynolds come to the University of Wisconsin to give a "9/11 truth presentation", that I concluded absolutely that Reynolds is an agent. I even wrote that in June at 911Blogger (paraphrasing) "anyone who watches that video and doesn't see that Reynolds is an agent of disinformation and destruction, didn't actually watch"

A reply years later by 'kdub,' about Fetzer:

http://911blogger.com/news/2006-09-25/easily-showing-jim-fet...

Look at ugly attacks on this thread and no one answers for Fetzer's inaccuracies. And look at the juvenile attacks coming from the people insisting there was no plane at the pentagon. It's very clear what Fetzer turned out to be. We need to learn from these experiences in the movement. Sorry to bring back an old thread, but it speaks to the pentagon discussions that have been going on lately as well as how hurtful and divisive dis-information can be to the 9/11 truth movement.

I'm not trained in lie detection, however in most instances I am very good at spotting liars. That doesn't mean I'm always correct, I'm not infallible. But in the case of former government employees turned “truthers,” especially former intel or counterintel, erring on the side of extra caution isn't erroring. Also I don't believe Sibel is a good liar (no academy award for her,) I see right through her.

In reply to sharkhearted

So you think I'm a “troll”? How foolishly naive of you, but it isn't surprising and I don't blame you. I know where you are in your 9/11 Truth quest - you're just starting.

You, from your own admission have only been really paying attention to 9/11 conspiracy since mid-2012, or if my memory is incorrect, late-2012. You're in the “initial truther stage,” and with that comes a significant fallacy: You already think of yourself as some kind of expert. The truth is, you aren't.

Also when you threaten people, saying stupid things such as (paraphrasing) “here is my email, contact me, I'll tell you where I live, come say it to my face and we could talk about this!” you present yourself as intellectually weak.

Having to resort to threats of violence, whether from anger that isn't being channeled properly, or as diversion for a lack of knowledge, doesn't make you right. The irony is that I used to say the exact same sort of “threats” circa ~2003-2004. Quit it.

As I have already told you, I have been paying attention to 9/11 conspiracy since May 2003. I am almost 10 years ahead of you.

In September 2006, for the 5th anniversary of 9/11, I wrote a letter to the editor of my local newspaper. During that month, the newspaper didn't publish anything about 9/11, not the anniversary, the attacks, conspiracy, etc. Nothing, except my letter.

I won't tell you the paper's name - I don't feel like telling you my location - but it is a nationally recognized, multi-year winner of a prominent award for being the best newspaper in the entire country, with a 2006 weekly readership of more than 10,000.

And like I said, the ONLY thing they published during September 2006 about 9/11, was my letter Exposing the official cover-up. They didn't publish any reply letter challenging it either.

Read for yourself:

http://i.imgur.com/6ql4LBc.jpg

Words of a “troll”? Smarten up.

There are several persons of influence and power in 9/11 Truth (and Twoof) who will manipulate you purposely, that you'll believe and trust because you think they're on your side. Just because a person says some things you agree with, says or supports things that you have already concluded, or says things you just want to believe to be true, doesn't mean they are on your side.

Wisdom. ;)

To anybody reading

I have no benefit to steering you about 9/11, other than trying to lead you away from those who I believe would mislead you (or those who have tried to, or have mislead me.) I don't work for any government, I haven't worked for any government. I have no association or membership with any intel agencies and agents, counterintel agencies and agents, etc. I also don't get paid any money or any type of currency or anything else for posting anything at the DailyPaul website. I'm not a “troll,” “shill,” “spook,” etc. Also I'm not trying to sell you anything, such as a memoir (ahem, Ms. Edmonds.)

I'd appreciate it, If you do actually read all the links. Thanks

That said, I don't know where you got the idea that citing Jim Fetzer or Reynolds or their assertions would be relevant to this discussion, in any way. But I'll bite, as you seem to want to assert that Sibel may possibly be on par at their level. I wholly reject that based on all that I cited before and now; while I'm not gonna belabor that point too much, as it's irrelevant to our discussion, but let us proceed, nevertheless.

I'm intimately familiar with most who were and are involved in 9/11Truth, though I've long left 9/11Blogger around 2008 or 2009-ish(??).

If you know who Nico the 'Feces-pitcher' Haupt is, then you know how long I've been researching this issue.

And as for citing Reynolds? He has very little gravitas among any serious 9/11 researchers, along with Dr. Judy Wood, whose assertions are simply unverifiable, period; regardless of whether such technology exists or not is immaterial: the nano-thermate evidence 100% exists. But, Wood's direct energy beam? Because there are no significant past damages data from a directed energy weapon's effects one can analyze and compare against, you cannot verify for 100% certain. Worse, leap to a conclusion that, that IS HOW it happened, with immutable authority, as many in her camp often tend to do.

And Jim Fetzer, oh Jimmy Fetz...you mean the 'Mr. oBUSHma will save us all from Evil'-Jim Fetzer? Who 'toilet-flushed away any of his past JFK research reputation he may have amassed, up to that point'-Fetzer?

Don't know what your intent is by bringing up Reynolds and Fetzer: they're 100% irrelevant to Sibel Edmonds or ANY of the points I've raised, or even ones YOU've initially raised in this discussion.

Let me ask you this: do you think you're a better body language reader than Philip Giraldi (who BELIEVES Sibel's assertions, because he's able to verify them via his actual intel sources), the former CIA head of entire Western Europe's clandestine services, DURING the Cold War, when spies were REAL spies?

Giraldi LIVED having to deal with murderers, liars, thieves, world-class professional con-men, professionally, for over 20yrs. Do you know the amount of nuances that one in such field can pick up, that can NEVER be taught, as it must be lived??

Do you have 20yr+ of such experience that afforded you time and occasions to hone such skills, where risks were literally deaths?

Do you?

He believes her.

Of course, that is not to say that by mere fact of one's professional background alone should be enough, nor that no 'layman' can ever possibly match such skills usually exclusive to a particular line of work. But, considering the amount of interviews of Sibel I've personally seen, books of hers I've read, her very deposition in question in which you're asking me to re-watch, and the facts as she laid out, it's a lot easier to come to an educated, heavily-researched conclusion that she's telling the truth, than blindly believing some anonymous poster on my favorite forum asserting that his gut FEELINGS and UN-verifiable 'body-language reading skills' are telling him that "she's lying."

Given the two options, if 'anonymous poster on my favorite forum' weren't you, of the two, whom would you believe: a career CIA guy who's pissed off at lunatic/murderous American Foreign Policy that he became a pawn of, who became a whistleblower and became Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul's foreign policy advisor, whom publicly went out of his way to support Sibel, after looking into her assertions, with all of his past intel sources available to him to verify?

Or, an anonymous poster at DailyPaul, whom his sole basis for asserting that "she's a liar"...is his gut FEELINGs, alone??

Seriously, if you were given between Giraldi's informed analyses of Sibel, vs. a gut feeling and unverifiable bodylanguage-reading skills, which one of those two, do you suppose would represent a much more intelligent choice?

I'd submit, even you would pick Giraldi's skills, over your own.o)

Even at a 'layman's level, in my own personal life, both social and business, I frankly have rarely been wrong about 'reading faces/body languages.' Almost NEVER.

But, would I, even as confident as I am about my own 'people-reading skills' ever assert at a court of law that, that should be enough to convict or acquit someone?

No FCUCKING way.

When you've finished reading through the entire list, re-watch Sibel's deposition. And as I have already said, watch neutrally. Myself, I won't watch again. I don't trust her, don't want to listen to her.

So...you don't trust her. (a feeling, as you admit) And, "you don't want to listen to her." (a willful resistance to looking at facts)...and so you mean, you're NOT asking others to basically "trust" your equally publicly unverifiable people-reading skills??

Brother, seriously??? Come on now. Given such, you do realize anyone observing our back and fourth, if they had any discernment skills to speak of, you do know that I'm much more likely to convince them based on facts and publicly available data that I've presented, right?

So... you honestly don't think that your own following words are YOUR very own version of "Just Trust Me"??

My belief is also based on when I watched her deposition and was trying to corroborate a lot of what she said (and I am fast using the internet,) there wasn't supporting documentation or information for a lot of her claims. A lot of what she said was presented with a, “just trust me.” No thank you. If you feel so inclined, perhaps you could fact check then provide ALL supporting documentation for all of her many non-corroboratble claims. Good luck.

Thanks for defining irony. lol.

So, by your own 'logic,' I have ZERO reasons to 'believe' you, trust you, or ANY ONE of your assertions along with any claims to the veracity of your own supposed personal confidence in your own supposed people-reading skills; they simply have ZERO bearing to our discussion, as they're 100% your PURE FEELINGS and OPINIONS, not "facts."

So by that, you're basically asserting that if you yourself cannot find something online, it must not be true, or at the least, verifiable?

Right.

Not to retype all the points I already made about what Giraldi said in response to your EXACT type of criticism of her, here it is, again: Sibel gave file numbers IN FBI's own records. If she's lying, they could've easily arrested her under the ever asinine but often deployed 'lying to Federal Officials.' The fact that they haven't and as Giraldi asserts, FBI's own silence on the matter itself is a proof alone, in this particular case:

I would also note that there is a fundamental flaw to the criticism of Sibel, which is that she claims that every single statement made by her is backed up by actual documents in FBI investigative files dealing with the activities of foreign agents who were suborning our elected officials and senior bureaucrats. She has even provided the numbers of the files. At the end of the day, either the files and the evidence they contain are there or they are not. If they are not, then the government should make its case publicly that fraud is being committed by Sibel and her supporters and take whatever legal action they consider to be appropriate. I would suggest that the silence from the government over this matter in itself confirms that the allegations are true in EVERY detail.

The intel Sibel asserts, when cross-examined must be made public, or at the least, even by current fascist Kangaroo court 'standards,' must be made open to the Federal Judge ruling on the case. Though I suppose by oBUSHma admin and acquiescent Fed. judges as of late, NOT EVEN look at evidence and merely take govt lawyers words, alone. But even then, they at least GO AFTER the defendant, with trumped up "State Secretes Privileges" charge to gag and jail them. But, for 'whatever Godly unknown reason' the Govt intel services FEAR HER so much that they haven't even charged her with violating her gag order, which is exactly what she did, when she deposed. And, oBUSHma Admin has jailed MORE whistleblowers than any single POTUS in history! So either she fooled, Giraldi, 2 Senators and their entire staff, every single whistleblower and former intel individuals and spies who tried to debunk her. Or, as rare as it may be, she actually knows more applicable intel to 9/11 and everything surrounding it, that IGNORING her even AFTER she violated her gag order by having damn near every MSM outlet bar her from coming on, is obviously more 'preferable' than to actually go after her, sue her or jail her, risking exposing the 9/11 false flag and others, in the process.

So as Giraldi asserts, I too agree that the FBI's silence on it confirms the veracity of her accusations, and furthermore suggests that her intel expose will embarrass and indict the corporatist govt/intel services or whomever the frakk, even more than it would, if they were to indict/arrest/jail her.

So... given such? I'm with Giraldi's:

Listening to Sibel Edmonds

by Philip Giraldi, September 24, 2009

To those who claim that Sibel Edmonds is a fraud and that she is propagating lies for reasons of her own I would observe the following: Sibel has been interrogated by two US Senators, by the Justice Department’s Inspector General’s Office, and by suspicious fact checkers working for the television news program 60 Minutes, for the Times of London, and for Vanity Fair. She has been found to be a credible witness by everyone who has taken the time to talk to her and no one has ever been able to disprove any aspect of her story.

And, again, I repeat:

So, RonPaulWins2012, have YOU been vetted by 2 US Senators, DoJ IG's office, CBS 60min, Times of London, Vanity fair, and by anyone who has taken time to try to disprove ALL your assertions?

No... So by your logic, they just put massive history-breaking Federal Gag Order on Sibel, a 'lying nobody"...for absolutely no reason at all, right?

NOT!

Seriously. Anyone who can come to that conclusion should have their discernment skills and deductive reasoning as well as Socratic narrative sequence deductions, re-checked.

Now, the-'I just told you the file numbers in the FBI's own records!'-assertions, under any other circumstances, may be dismissible, if made in vacuum. But, even her own enemies DO NOT DENY the existence of the files. The Turks' defense are only to WHAT extent are they were/were not involved, not whether they are involved.

Because if not, then they would've been arguing back and forth over assertions recorded in FBI files that don't exist. No?

That, is the entire crux of the on-going lawsuits. If you missed that whole fact, you truly haven't looked into her case, AT ALL. And, I'm simply wasting my time replying to someone who professes he DOESN'T WANT TO LISTEN TO HER (a willful decision to deny reality).

Plus, all the body-language 'signifiers' you referenced? They're typical mistakes made by amateurs. They are common body-language reading myths in the same level as those who assert that if a given subject's eye moves to the right, they're lying. Some, say if their eyes move to the left. So which is it? Both or Neither?

REAL Answer?

It DOESN'T matter! Everyone's different! For investigative purposes, you MUST first establish 'baseline' stimuli responses; it's largely dependent on an 'establish-able' baseline response

Women tend to play with their body parts more: caress the hair, rubbing the back of the ear, etc. For someone like Sibel, you'd 1st have to be intimately familiar with an Azerbaijani female by way of Persia who were educated and grew up in those cultures AS WELL AS the Western ones, to know IF women in those native cultures with post-Western world influence tend to move and express in a particular manner.

If you don't know, you cannot know, no?

And yes, there's a reason why Academy Award-level actors can and do trick you, but they do so under multiple takes. No method actor lives his/her role for year on out, risking their lives as the ones Giraldi has interacted with during his clandestine services days.

REAL spies selectively LIVE a life based on a lie: they don't have director's cuts, multiple 15min-takes, or off-makeup and it's over time. Spies don't make love to, or trick the camera. They have to trick REAL people, with actual risks and your adrenaline always willing to betray you.

And, Giraldi was able to discern THOSE 'actors.' And, he believes Sibel, not only based on his people reading skills, but because his specialty was in the Turkey intel nexus, as he's FLUENT in Turkish, he could directly verify with his actual intel sources as to her assertions.

You honestly believe you can match Giraldi's 20yr+ skills?? Do you have old Cold War Turkish intel sources/buddies/assets who can verify or deny Sibel's assertions??

Do you?

Frankly, your assertions on body-reading 'skills' is why, for surveillance purposes, it can only be a premise to begin to apply circumstantial basis to pursue something or someone, but not used as a determinant tool, per-se.

Even as fcuked up as our current in-'justice' system is, even they don't admit 'body language experts' testimonies as evidence, though it doesn't stop prosecutors and attorneys from hiring them, repeatedly to paint a narrative, because court is about the 'Bench'/Banc/Bank and indeed, story telling to convince 12 fools, not about the truth.

When you institutionalize, in an attempt to 'teach' body language-reading 'skills' to spot liars and 'suspects,' you know what happens? You get the motherfcuking TSA morons. Literally:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Ekman#Criticisms

For ANYONE interested in 'forensic people-reading' if you've never heard of the following name, you're not as informed on this as you think you are: Paul Ekman.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Ekman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_Action_Coding_System
https://www.paulekman.com/
http://www.amazon.com/Paul-Ekman/e/B002FSXSVI

Ekman, in fact, proves my point: it's WHY these 'skills' cannot be 'taught' in an institutional manner, particularly with the goal of training state actors/agents/thugs in mind.

People reading is really more like a martial arts. You can teach someone the mechanics of movements, grappling, kicks, punches. You can even teach them the science of physiology, muscles, anatomical limits, etc. But you'll NEVER know the nuances of 'sensing' when your opponent will attack when you parry, or move to his right, whether he'll go for an arm bar, or simply pop your ocular cavities.

Body/face/people-reading, if it can be considered a 'skill' at all, it's more '6th sense' than 'science.'

Applying and teaching such 'skill' frankly exposes far more issues about our current political structure, govt funding/subsidies, utterly detached deductionist/reductionist nature of 'science,' not to mention, the politicized nature of science field, as a whole.

If you're actually interested in that point, check this out:
http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2584955

Frankly, you want to hone your body-language/facial expression reading skills?

Learn to be a REAL pickup artist, aka PUA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seduction_community

LOL.

Yes, that's what I said.

Frankly if you've never done this, or are unable to do this, your entire frame of reference for 'reading people' is incomplete, let alone discerning whether Sibel Edmonds is telling the truth when a career CIA guy is telling you otherwise.

In closing, seeing as how you're a fellow official govt-9/11 fairytale skeptic, I truly DO think you mean well.

Perhaps, you initially being 'betrayed' or 'had' by other researchers in the movement has marred your lens somewhat...so when someone like Sibel comes along, you now presume the worst.

Can't say I blame ya, in the current state of the world, where the lie is the norm, and bigger the lie the more believable it seems and deeper the sheeple are asleep.

That said, no one can tell you to believe x, y, z, and guarantee that you'll change your views. At some point, beyond all the data, how we discern info are all dependent on how diverse one's life experiences are, how many different types of people one has dealt with socially to professionally, to various types of professionals, and for how long, and how often. Not to mention, all that experience itself is worthless if the person living through it were not paying as much attention or simply knew enough to know what TO look for.

But, seeing as how my point of reference is a skeptical former CIA Giraldi, whom Dr. Paul trusted enough to appoint as his foreign policy advisor, who made it a public point to support Sibel Edmonds, I must say, he certainly has much more gravitas with me, than no offense, someone's "feelings."

Especially, if one were to compare the very 'people-reading skills' in question, between yours or Giraldi's? Gotta say, his 20yrs+ in clandestine services and corporate security/intel is pretty hard to beat. No?

And, on a personal note, as someone who has interacted, lived ever so briefly in, and dated women from that part of the world, with similar diverse educational and cultural backgrounds, just enough to be able to gauge language, intonation, articulation, enunciation, point and place of vocal emphases, mannerism variances, etc., I gotta say, based on my own experience and personal life discernment skills I've personally honed to trust over the years, Sibel Edmonds seems credible to me.

For all those reasons cited above, I find Sibel Edmonds to be a credible person, as one CAN gauge any third party whom you do not know personally, in first person, could ever attest to, based on all publicly available info and visible public records.

- Cheers. This will be my final reply on the matter. Thanks.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

-

That said, I don't know where you got the idea that citing Jim Fetzer or Reynolds or their assertions would be relevant to this discussion, in any way.

Previously you said,

Aside from the fact that you have not established why your particular brand of body-language reading 'skills' are more credible than any of ours, your feeling-based assessment is worth what, exactly??

That's why I included info about Fetzer | Reynolds, because they are liars who I didn't believe, I pointed out that they were, then that later became the 9/11 Truth (not Twoof) community concensus.

Regarding Sibel, when I said 'I don't want to listen to her,' I meant any more. As I also said, I watched her deposition. I have also watched other things of Sibel and read parts of her memoir.

I don't really care if some “important” people trust her, I don't.

Your the Troll or you're simply uninformed.

Anyone who's throwing mud on Sibel Edmunds should stand back and ask themselves if they have the fucking courage to do what she did.

STFU.

____

"Take hold of the future or the future will take hold of you." -- Patrick Dixon

sharkhearted's picture

Agreed my friend.

~

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

-

Read the In reply to sharkhearted. http://www.dailypaul.com/284300#comment-3069062

It'd probably help if you could correctly spell her name.

Edmonds, not Edmunds. Thank you for contributing nothing to the dialogue.

Lying about what. And why

Summarize it for us.

If it sounds plausible, I will research it further.

sharkhearted's picture

As usual, nice job, Go213

~

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

here's a mini compilation of Sibel's more recent interviews:

Sibel Edmonds on Lew Rockwell Show, Apr. 30, 2013: Boston Bombing, CIA & the US Empire + Wayne Madsen

365. The Boston Bombing, the CIA, and the US Empire | Sibel Edmonds


http://youtu.be/ZpmRWYLeOTc

Lew Rockwell
Published on Apr 30, 2013

Sibel Edmonds tells Lew Rockwell what's really happening in Central Asian Caucasus.

Sibel Edmonds website: http://www.classifiedwoman.com/
Caucasus Map: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasus

365. The Boston Bombing, the CIA, and the US Empire

On April 30, 2013, In Podcast, By editor

Download

Sibel Edmonds talks to Lew Rockwell about what’s really happening in Central Asia and the Caucasus.

Sibel's Two Recent interviews on AJ Show and IFW Nightly News:

Sibel Edmonds: CIA Ran Tsarnaev Brothers


http://youtu.be/TbxFM9X6IC0

TheAlexJonesChannel
Published on Apr 26, 2013

Alex welcomes former FBI translator and whistleblower Sibel Edmonds to explain the US roots of "Chechen" terrorism. http://justacitizen.com/

Terror by Design: "Gladio B" and The Boston Bombings


http://youtu.be/pDRZiGVLaJc

TheAlexJonesChannel
Published on Apr 30, 2013

Whistleblower, translator and expert in Chechnya, Turkey and the Caucuses, Sibel Edmonds, connects the CIA to the Boston Bombing. Is this blowback or terror by design? Edmonds examines connections between an Imam brought to the US by the CIA who subsequently became a multi-billionaire and founded over 350 radical mosques, Uncle Ruslan Tsarni and the CIA man in the Chechnya region for decades, Graham Fuller, father-in-law to Ruslan.

http://www.infowars.com/
http://www.prisonplanet.com/
http://www.infowars.net/
http://www.prisonplanet.tv

https://twitter.com/RealAlexJones
https://www.facebook.com/AlexanderEmerickJones

===================================================================

Sibel on James Corbett Report: False Flag Operation Gladio B Series

Sibel on James Corbett Report: Boston Bombings

Sibel Edmonds on the Boston Bombing: The US roots of "Chechen" terrorism


http://youtu.be/2RCN1w5J80E

CorbettReport
Published on Apr 23, 2013

SHOW NOTES AND MP3: http://www.corbettreport.com/?p=7316

FBI whistleblower and BoilingFrogsPost.com editor Sibel Edmonds joins us to discuss the recent Boston bombing hysteria and the potential geopolitical implications of the American public's "discovery" of Chechen terror. We discuss Sibel's work exposing the US/NATO roots of so-called Chechen terrorism, and what the FSB's involvement in this twisted tale might mean in terms of future Russian-US relations.

===================================================================

Related Interview: The Tsarnaevs, CIA, Georgia, Chechnya, Caucasus, Jamestown Foundation, USAID False Flag Terror Nexus

Wayne Madsen, Fmr. NSA: Alleged Boston Bombers' Uncle = Duke-grad Lawyer, Arthur Andersen & BigOil Ties; Possibly a Spook!

Submitted by AnCapMercenary on Mon, 04/22/2013 - 19:08

Boston Bombing Suspects Were Gov't Assets


http://youtu.be/x4TChwWn93U

TheAlexJonesChannel
Published on Apr 22, 2013

On today's show, investigative journalist and author Wayne Madsen stops by to discuss the multiple red herrings in play in the wake of the botched Boston Marathon bombing operation. http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/

[Rogers said the FBI stopped tracking Tsarnaev after an unnamed foreign intelligence service failed to cooperate with the agency's investigation.

Members of Congress have criticized the FBI for not placing Tsarnaev on a terror watch list after it was allegedly discovered that he had embraced radical Islam. South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham, an outspoken supporter of the war on terror, accused the FBI of failing to follow up on Tsarnaev.]

http://www.infowars.com/fbi-fumbles-as-it-tries-to-cover-up-...

Tamerlan Tsarnaev’s links to CIA operations in Caucasus

Wayne Madsen
wtfrly.com
April 30, 2013

Evidence is mounting that the accused dead Boston Marathon bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev became a “radicalized” Muslim while participating in a covert CIA program, run through the Republic of Georgia, to destabilize Russia’s North Caucasus region. The ultimate goal of the CIA’s campaign was for the Muslim inhabitants of the region to declare independence from Moscow and tilt toward the U.S. Wahhabi Muslim-run governments of Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

What does U.S. ambassador to Moscow Michael McFaul know about Tamerlan Tsarneav’s activities in Russia’s North Caucasus?
Russia’s Izvestia is reporting that Tsarnaev attended seminars run by the Caucasus Fund of Georgia, a group affiliated with the neo-conservative think tank, the Jamestown Foundation, between January and July 2012. The U.S. media has been reporting that during this six month time frame Tsarnaev was being radicalized by Dagestan radical imam “Abu Dudzhan,” killed in a fight with Russian security last year. However, in documents leaked by the Georgian Ministry of Internal Affairs’s Counterintelligence Department, Tsarnaev is pinpointed as being in Tbilisi taking part in “seminars” organized by the Caucasus Fund, founded during the Georgian-South Ossetian war of 2008, a war started when Georgian troops invaded the pro-Russian Republic of South Ossetia during the Beijing Olympics. Georgia was supported by the United States and Israel, including U.S. Special Forces advisers. The Georgian intelligence documents indicate Tsarnaev attended the Jamestown seminars in Tbilisi.

Tsarnaev also visited Dagestan in 2011. On December 16, 2011, WMR reported on the CIA’s and George Soros’s operations in Georgia that funded the Caucasus Fund, the Jamestown Foundation, and U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) activities. It should also be noted that Tsarnaev’s Maryland-based uncle, Ruslan Tsarni (name changed from Tsarnaev) was also contracted to USAID.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

sharkhearted's picture

Wow AnCap....this is INCREDIBLE.

Sibel Edmonds really IS a heroine.

God protect her and keep her safe because she is blowing the lid off the black ops like none has ever done before.

You should present this as its own forum, AnCap, it is definitely forum-worthy.

OK....back to listening. Incredible lesson in geopolitics she is giving. WOW!

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

yup,

I would submit that Sibel Edmonds is One of the most bravest women alive, period..

she literally knows ALL their dirty laundry:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1EAAE082166CBBB8

Here's where it gets interesting for us, as R3VOL: the lawyer FOR the CIA-neoCon Turkish group that she's been in a legal bind against, is none other than Dr. Paul's former POTUS campaign senior legal advisor: Atty. Bruce Fein!!!

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/tag/neocon-bruce-fein/

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2011/08/30/the-greatest-plot...
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2011/09/08/ron-paul%E2%80%99...

Brad Friedman's a liberal; though kinda anti-gun, he's one of the better ones on other core civil liberties issues and has been in Sibel's corner for a long time, covering this issue:
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7387
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7374

besides, while misguided on guns, Brad's even friendly toward the creator of our R3VOLution logo, AnCap and long time libertarian activist, Ernie Hancock: http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7406 So he can't be all that bad. plus he's the de facto expert on everything and anything blackbox voting con, ie. Diebold/ESS/Sequoia. so, I'd consider him an ally, more than your typical run of the mill 'liberal' activists.

Now, even with Fein's ties to the neoCon AEI/Heritage and his wife in deep 'let Israel bomb Iran or do whatever it thinks it needs to do'-Likudnik AIPAC circles, that is not to say that Fein is necessarily 'evil,' per-se; having observed him over time, I'd posit that he's most plausibly, simply a legal mercenary.

Well, he is a blood-sucking lawyer after all. LOL

Hey, even bad guys need defenders, if we are to remotely even have a semblance of a 'lawful society' (yes, of course, we're not, but for the sake of discussion, go with me here. LOL). Same reason why I NEVER fault Judy Clarke for taking on the most highest profile cases that most would flee from; her cases take a specific breed of human souls to defend the 'indefensible.' Human society DO NEED people like her, if we are to keep it honest, in the truest of sense. Though, granted, she's usually afforded to the defendants by the State, as a public defender. Which is why Fein falls into a pure mercenary category, IMO.

That said, Lew Rockwell keep it interesting, in that he is DEFINITELY a supporter of Sibel's, as you can tell from all their past interviews together. Yet, Bruce Fein as a long term acquaintance within Dr. Paul's circles, while not a 'friend' friend to Fein, Lew knows of him enough to invite him a few times to his podcast, and a few liberty events.

That's sad to me, because I would SOOOOOO love both Sibel and Fein to be with us, on good terms, and with each other. But seeing as how he's the opposition's high-paid DC lawyer AGAINST Sibel, throughout her entire ordeal, of course, no one can blame her. Which is why she could never fully get on board with RP2012. Seriously, who can expect her to come on board when the candidate that you want to support hires the man who is literally making her life a legal hell??

but the Good Doc has like some effortless magical ability to keep all of us diverse bunch, even within the liberty circles together. that said, I haven't seen Bruce Fein around the Doc's post-Congress activities, lately. So perhaps Doc is evolving his views on Fein, too. But...at this stage and age, I doubt it. Still....Fein probably got just too expensive for him. LOL.

Either way, aside from his Constitutional advocacy, I can't say I'm a "fan" of Fein in the same way that I'm a FAN of, respect, and utterly intellectually ADORE the likes of Lew, Woods, et al.

c'est la vie, eh? dang, why can't the world be purrrfect?? lol...er... .o(

PS. well, it was posted separately:
http://www.dailypaul.com/284081/sibel-edmonds-on-lew-rockwel...

but not getting the love.o(

LOL.

na it's all good, I've been cross posting it; as long as some get to find it, alles gut fur mich!

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

Debbie's picture

Thank you AnCap: I think you would have to ask Bruce Fein about

this. It's always a good idea to get both sides.

Debbie

quite

welcome!!

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul