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Liberalism (Libertarianism) is a sin!

There is an old book from the 20th century, before Vatican 2, about how liberalism is completely incompatible with the Catholic faith. It seems to be demonstrably true, and has made me abandon libertarianism.

A few random excerpts:

"Liberalism is the dogmatic affirmation of the absolute independence of the individual and of the social reason. Catholicity is the dogma of the absolute subjection of the individual and of the social order to the revealed law of God. One doctrine is the exact antithesis of the other. They are opposites in direct conflict."

"Liberalism, have been denied, we would find every Christian dogma in one way or another rejected--from the dogma of the Incarnation to that of Infallibility.

Nonetheless Liberalism is in itself dogmatic; and it is in the declaration of its own fundamental dogma, the absolute independence of the individual and the social reason, that it denies all Christian dogmas in general."

"Liberalism is, therefore, a greater sin than blasphemy, theft, adultery, homicide, or any other violation of the law of God, save in such case as where one acts in good faith, in ignorance, or without thought."

"Peace in war is an incongruity." "The monstrosity resulting is what is known as the Liberal Catholic or the Catholic Liberal".

Whole book:

I might do a separate post on this, "Ron Paul: Meet Saint Paul" by Dr. Thomas A. Droleskey. He's not ignorant about Ron Paul and about good ideas Dr. Paul has about the Fed, but does take fault on other pertinent issues: http://www.christorchaos.com/RonPaulMeetSaintPaul.htm

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The founders were liberals.

The founders were liberals. It's just called minding one's own business. Only when someone's actions HARM another person is it your business. If you intend to make that business yours, it means that you put your life on the line for what is right, not be some little tattling child running to call the police.

Today's brand of liberalism really should be called neo-liberalism just as the opposite side is called neo-conservatism. Today's brand of liberalism has a vision of society that is a gigantic orgy and constant abortions.

Catholicism is Christianity? I've only ever seen it preach that your every day person who isn't some pope adorned in gold and jewels isn't good enough to have a direct relationship with Jesus.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

This is actually one of the reasons Catholicsm is wrong

Christianity is not subjugation, it is freedom. The whole Bible is about what is required to stay free as a nation, and the Israelites screwed up, over and over, and went from freedom -> enslavement -> freedom -> enslavement and over and over.

God wanted his people free, as he does not, nowhere in the Bible does Christianity talk about enslavement is key. In fact, it states that no man can serve two masters. You cannot be a slave of the state AND a servant of the Lord. Being free physically, on earth, is almost a requirement of being a Christian.

1 Corinthians 7:17 KJV
Nevertheless, each person should live as a believer in whatever situation the Lord has assigned to them, just as God has called them. This is the rule I lay down in all the churches.

1 Corinthians 7:21 KJV
Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.

If that's hard to understand for you, here is the NIV.

1 Corinthians 7:21 NIV
Were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you--although if you can gain your freedom, do so.

It is best to be free, so we are free to serve the Lord. If Catholicism is about slavery to the church, it is even a worse form of Christianity than i thought.

If those of the Catholic faith wish to help me learn, please do so.

Douay Rheims

is the version of the Bible I use. Yes, Jesus says "you shall know the truth, the truth shall make you free" John 8:32. Yet, unless you understand these passages through Catholic teaching and tradition, they get distorted. Obedience to one's superior has always been a part of the Catholic faith - Jesus was obedient to God's command, etc.

You needed to go just one more verse to 1 Corinthians 7:22, "For he that is called in the Lord, being a bondman [slave], is the freeman of the Lord. Likewise he that is called, being free, is the bondman [slave] of Christ."

Also: "Whosoever committeth sin, is the servant [slave] of sin". And, the servant of virtue is the slave of virtue. Whatever you become "free" to do, you are a slave to. Thus, the person who is "liberated" by his sins of drugs or sex, is a slave to those things. This is to state that even though drugs may provide some thrills, they provide pains. The joys of being a "slave" of Christ is the thrill of the freedom of virtue, but the slavishness is in the pains that must be endured.

Hopefully this meaningfully orients you in the philosophy of Catholic freedom a bit more.


"The world has never known more oppressive governments or bigger governments than those which profess the cult of liberty." - Donald Sanborn

Thank you to Paul_S.

Paul_S. is correct, I do suggest people turn to the Catechism of The Catholic Church to find out exactly what the Church says.


The Catholic Church is global. This is an interesting time in for my generation because we have seen 7 popes, usually a person sees two in their lifetime:

260.Pius XII (1939-58)
261.Blessed John XXIII (1958-63)
262.Paul VI (1963-78)
263.John Paul I (1978)
264.Blessed John Paul II (1978-2005)
265.Benedict XVI (2005-2013)
266.Francis (2013—)

The Church has what is called orders:


The apostolic succession is important to understand

All this said, as a Catholic, I completely agree with you that Christ IS freedom. I believe people only come to God by his grace, and stay there with faith.

Catholic Church accepts ALL baptisms in Christ. The Church has changed many times and survived which is a miracle knowing the nature of the world where little is built to last.


One reason I like Bible study is we share scripture from several Bibles..

You're right.

We are only to be subject to GOD. To be free of the tyranny of men is to be free to serve Yahweh without fear of wrongful condemnation or coercion of apostate doctrine. The Catholic Church is apostate and it is no surprise that they preach subjugation to the Pope. But that does not mean that Libertarianism is right either.

Granger suggested the Catechism, the official version.

Then if you read something on the Interment, you'll have a pretty good idea about what they represent.

Argue with the official Catholic position.

On the Internet, who knows if a poster and their ideas are the same as the official Dogma. Maybe they just used a DYMO label that peels off when done.

Free includes debt-free!

Just a note

I understand everyone is different, even in beliefs, i am closest to the baptist faith, but that doesn't make me a baptist. I am not condemning all Catholics above, i am condemning the church leaders themselves, as the church in Europe has become a lot more dominating of late.

Yea right, because "do unto

Yea right, because "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is a principle that Catholics and libertarians could never agree on.

I must be willing to give up what I am in order to become what I will be. Albert Einstein

Yes the two ideologies are

Yes the two ideologies are nearly incompatible, I agree.

The trouble is, Libertarianism is right. Catholicism is wrong.

Fools who subscribe to collectivism are responsible for most of the evil in the world. It always has been.

So someone claims to be a catholic on a blog.

Doesn't mean they are speaking for anyone but themselves.

I wondered if this wan't one of Cass's masterpieces.

Free includes debt-free!

Even if you are right and

Even if you are right and classical liberalism (libertarianism) is fundamentally flawed ... do you really think you are going to have much success spreading that message here?

Create strawmen, define them, then tear them down

Maybe it would sell to children or the insane.

Free includes debt-free!

My last preist was for Ron Paul

most of the catholics I know were for Ron Paul. None were for Romney, some were for Newt (RINO) and Santorum (because he's an outspoken catholic).

Boy, the vatican is

running scared.

This guy is a phony.

Fooled you?

Free includes debt-free!


Free agency.......the right to choose.......the greatest gift God gave man is actually worse than all of the sins contained in the 10 commandments.

What a completely idiotic book. Who made the guy who wrote it God? He is going to tell us that Gods unspoken and unwritten commandment is more important than the spoken and written ones? What a sham.